User Fee's - In the Budget!

inav8r

Line Up and Wait
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Mike B.
As reported by the USA Today "WASHINGTON — The Bush administration unveiled plans on Monday to increase taxes on business and private aircraft, a dramatic shift in how the government funds aviation that could reduce the portion that airline passengers pay."

So that's it. I know the alphabet soup of GA will do their best - but the government wheel is a tough one to stop once it gets rolling. :(
 
It's interesting to note that after a once over - it appears that the paper is trying to spin it so that the average airline traveler will save money and the big rich private corporations who use GA to avoid those ticket taxes need to pony up their share.

Geeszh - let's forget the fact that it's going to cost them more money to collect the taxes and that they are - in effect - putting the airlines in a position to gain more control over the FAA...

Oh wait, I'm preaching to the choir.

:(
 
It's being pitched so as to create class warfare. Airline passengers will save, and "fat-cats" will pay. Fact is, the airlines will be able to pass this along to passengers, so they really won't save much. It'll also encourage airlines to operate fuller planes, meaning even more discomfort for the passengers.

When it comes to a war of public perception, though, GA loses.
 
It still has to get by a democratic congress which, thus far, has opposed user fees.
 
It is a big club, I have been fearing for it for about 6 years now. You're welcome to join in.
Well...can't really respond without getting this moved to the Zone but...with the current gubmint moving us into the realm of socialism, then yeah, I'll join in.
 
Well...can't really respond without getting this moved to the Zone but...with the current gubmint moving us into the realm of socialism, then yeah, I'll join in.

Yeah we will keep it spin free. BTW who proposed this budget with the user fees? What party is he from? Ok I'll stop. :yes:
 
Well.. it's pretty pertinent to the issue. This dumb **** administration has done nothing for the American people besides getting soldiers killed and trying to make the rich richer. Now they're trying to do the same thing in the aviation industry, trying to make the many non-airline pilots pay for what the few big businesses want to do.
 
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Well.. it's pretty pertinent to the issue. This dumb **** administration has done nothing for the American people besides getting soldiers killed and trying to make the rich richer.
Nice..I took a guess earlier that this thread would last another 30 minutes--I was wrong.
 
"Punish" everyone equally. Actually, I do kind of like the idea of punishing people for being lazy and irresponsible. :D
 
"Punish" everyone equally. Actually, I do kind of like the idea of punishing people for being lazy and irresponsible. :D
Yeah, doesn't it tick ya off when pilots get lazy in the pattern and on approach, failing to use decent rudder control? :D
 
Does anyone know where to find the budget/actual numbers on the cost that we are talking about?
 
What democrat would oppose a tax increase that punishes the rich?

The democrats that control the transportation appropriations.
You are blinding yourself with stereotypes, the Democrats I have heard speak on the issue all have wanted to keep control of the FAA for themselves, and therefore have refused to accept the White House userfee scheme.
You might not have heard of David Hymsfeld, but he is the Staff director of aviation affairs for the Democrats. On Thursday he directly disagreed with the plans put forth by the ATA, and stated that user fees would be an unworkable poor solution, and not likely to be approved by the congress.
How do I know this? I was at the conference.
Here's part of the story: http://www.atwonline.com/news/story.html?storyID=7798
(Ed Bowlin of NBAA also did an admirable job defending against user fees.)

Now you can choose to believe what you want from your stereotypes, or you can listen to the facts.

The facts here are simple:
User fees are a shortsighted measure proposed by the airlines and adopted by a Republican President. On this one, congress is not going to permit the airlines to wrest control of the FAA from its clutches with user fees.
 
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Does anyone know where to find the budget/actual numbers on the cost that we are talking about?

Thank you very much, that is the place we need to look first.

With this information, we can write our respective legislators with specific information.

Do it; they listen.
 
the Democrats I have heard speak on the issue all have wanted to keep control of the FAA for themselves, and therefore have refused to accept the White House userfee scheme.
The Democrats who get the most airtime on TV set the stereotype for them all; same for Republicans. I'm glad to hear there are some who aren't that way.

But one thing to consider is that the more partisan among the Democrats will oppose user fees merely because it was Bush who proposed it. But watch out when Obillary gets elected, no revenue source will be left unconsidered, regardless of how many sensible congresspeople there are.
 
Does anyone know where to find the budget/actual numbers on the cost that we are talking about?
Starting with AOPA's site... no numbers yet broken down. But, they have a special page where they are addressing the issue and will continue as they fight it.

Avweb has their little piece on it.

And finally, the White House Budget Proposal... see Page 7. My head cold is getting to me too much to interpret this stuff right now but here are some highlights.

Keep in mind, while the source of funding will shift from its current source of largely fuel taxes, I don't believe any taxation will disappear. It states:
...fuel tax rates will be calibrated based on the costs that these users impose on the system.
We know well taxes almost never go down. So, the word "calibrated" leaves a lot of question. I equate this to eBay's notices of "adjusting fees" while the adjustment, seemingly never goes down.

It states tax receipts and discretionary spending will decrease. If you've read my posts in the spin zone, you know my stance on such remarks and ideologies of any politician.

It further states:
The reform of FAA’s financing structure is necessary because under the existing aviation tax structure, there is no relationship between the taxes paid by users and the air traffic control services rendered by the FAA.

Let's see... GA uses less fuel but uses even less of the services of the FAA. While, the airline industry uses a substantial amount of fuel and substantially higher use of FAA resources.​

They continue:
For example, when a full plane flies from New York to Boston it imposes the same workload on the FAA as when a less crowded plane of the same size travels the same route. However, since the current tax structure is primarily based on the price of a ticket, the full plane pays much more in taxes than the less crowded plane. User fees allow commercial aviation users to pay directly for the services that FAA provides for managing the use of the national airspace.
They couldn't have picked a worse example given virtually nothing will fly in that region without requiring services.​

Everything I read from this has nothing but higher costs written all over it. I don't see a proportionate fee structure. I see the beginning of squeezing out an entire sector of the aviation community. Fuel taxes will remain the same. Fees will come into place on top of them. So, we'll effectively be paying twice. Should by some miracle the fuel taxes do become "calibrated" lower, you can bet states will pick up the slack and increase their tax under the guise, "there's no net increase." Such has happened before.​
 
This is the same budget that has order for the Disney TFRs in it?

Nope. No corporate control of it at all. :mad:
 
I'll be writing letters to my senators and representative shortly. We can ***** and moan about it all day long, but in the end it will be congress' vote that will kill us or save us.
 
They continue: For example, when a full plane flies from New York to Boston it imposes the same workload on the FAA as when a less crowded plane of the same size travels the same route. However, since the current tax structure is primarily based on the price of a ticket, the full plane pays much more in taxes than the less crowded plane. User fees allow commercial aviation users to pay directly for the services that FAA provides for managing the use of the national airspace.
All rightie, then. Fuel taxes to fund highways are equally unjust! A Greyhound with 2 passengers vs. one with 40? Same fuel use, same tax paid. And the Greyhound bus should pay the same highway user fee as a guy riding his Harley to Bike Week? Never mind the wear and tear to the roadway of a bus vs. a motorcycle . . .
 
Sigh. Good thing AOPA spent so much time fighting user fees and avoiding all other GA concerns.

Really paid off.
 
I think that since the airlines are only paying 4.something cents per gallon of tax on their fuel and I pay 19.something cents per gallon tax on my 100LL and the guys in private jets pay 21.something cents per gallon tax on Jet-A that makes the Airlines the lowest tax entity in the whole group. Just raise the tax on their fuel to the same that the rest of the Jet-a burners pay and there is plenty of money to fund the FAA. The taxes paid on tickets are not paid by the airlines (but they want to claim credit for it) but by the passengers.
 
And I presume if I'm forced to pay "my fair share" then going forward I can demand my "fair share" of services from O'Hare?:no:
 
This is going to make the MOGAS STC very attractive. It is already almost $4 for AVGAS vs $2.20 for MOGAS, and if you shop for "off road" MOGAS you can get it for $1.80 or less. A lot more trouble though, since it is not available at many GA airports around here.
 
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