Unusual Flight Path

Skip Miller

Skip Miller

Final Approach
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Feb 22, 2005
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Skip Miller
I've never heard of a commercial flight doing a 360 for spacing while in cruise flight.... usually they just slow down. Here is the flight track for the flight I was on today. I had my nose in a book and was suddenly surprised by the sun coming in the wrong window! We did not change speed or altitude.

Any guesses as to why?

-Skip
 
Skip Miller said:
I've never heard of a commercial flight doing a 360 for spacing while in cruise flight.... usually they just slow down. Here is the flight track for the flight I was on today. I had my nose in a book and was suddenly surprised by the sun coming in the wrong window! We did not change speed or altitude.

Any guesses as to why?

-Skip
Click to expand...

Maybe NY Center was refusing the handoff.....
 
wsuffa said:
Maybe NY Center was refusing the handoff.....
Click to expand...

LOL! A good guess. Incidentally, the flight path is a good example of what happens to a 360 with a strong wind from the S/W.

-Skip
 
That is unusual I think. Maybe it was just more expeditious than issuing a one turn hold somewhere, and there was no room to vector?
 
ATC can't restrict a jet aircraft to slower than 250 knots above 10,000 (unless the aircraft accepts a clearance [which is at their discretion] dictated in FAAO 7110.65P 4-4-11, d-1) so ZOB (Cleveland Center) may have needed more MIT (Miles in Trail) separation that could not have been achieved due to many factors, such as not being able to slow the a/c down to slower than 250 knots.

Many people teach, "Use vectoring/holding to make separation, and use speeds to lock it in." This phrase/quote is mainly tailored to terminal environments, since enroute operations are a whole different ball game. When speeds are used correctly, proper MIT is a snap. Sometimes it's not that easy and you have to "do whatcha gotta do to make it work."
 
Last edited:
Skip Miller said:
I've never heard of a commercial flight doing a 360 for spacing while in cruise flight.... usually they just slow down. Here is the flight track for the flight I was on today. I had my nose in a book and was suddenly surprised by the sun coming in the wrong window! We did not change speed or altitude.

Any guesses as to why?

-Skip
Click to expand...

I have had it happen a few times. Escpecially coming into Chicago on high traffic days. It is just normally to increase the intrail spacing.
 
Skip Miller said:
I've never heard of a commercial flight doing a 360 for spacing while in cruise flight.... usually they just slow down. Here is the flight track for the flight I was on today. I had my nose in a book and was suddenly surprised by the sun coming in the wrong window! We did not change speed or altitude.

Any guesses as to why?
Click to expand...

I was on a Delta flight from SAV to ATL that did one turn in a hold when they couldn't use parallel runways due to bad wx. The 360 would have just happened a couple minutes quicker. So, my guess is they were trying to space the traffic into NY.

"Roger. Give me ten thousand dollars' worth."
 
In the future, if anyone wants to look before an IFR flight what each facility is requesting such as MIT (Miles in Trail for fixes, airports, etc) as well as other situations visit:

http://www.fly.faa.gov/ois/

Click "Current Restrictions" on the lower left and then select the facility(ies) if not "ALL" which currently have restrictions in place.

Jason

P.S. N90 = NY TRACON. PM or E-mail if anyone needs clarification on facility identifiers or visit: http://www.ato.faa.gov/locator/
 
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