Unload fuel, how?

TMetzinger said:
I don't think so, not unless there's a catalytic converter involved. Even then I don't know if it's illegal or just dumb.
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"Just Dumb" Unless you really enjoy cleaning plugs, The low compression engines were not designed to run leaded fuel, and they don't burn hot enough to scavenge lead and it simply collects on every thing in the engine.
 
Ron Levy said:
Tim's right -- and there are no catalytic convertors in lawn mowers. In fact, until 2007, NASCAR was running leaded fuel until political correctness (from NASCAR? :confused:) drove them to change to the newer unleaded Sunoco 260GTX fuel.
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And that 260GTX fuel is in perfect position to replace 100LL... They have test data for it, production facilities to make it and distribution would be pretty simple..... Price per gallon would be very competitive to current 100LL and maybe cheaper when they ramp up and mass produce it..IMHO.

Ben...
 
Tom-D said:
Surprisingly the more fuel in the tank the better, I have two old gas caps that have the vent soldered shut, I put them on open the drain until no fuel will come out, and remove /replace the bottom drains.

and of course replace the caps with the correct caps and put the fuel I caught back in the tanks.

Cessna's have a cross feed vent system, you must cap both tanks, and the under wing vent.
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Hmmm, I suppose the venting system may be the most important factor?

I have only seen it done (swapping out sump drains) on my '48 170 which as you know has a relatively small fuel capacity. I have also seen the pressure behind the sump drains on the DC-3 (let's just say you don't collect DC-3 sumps with a Gats jar) and wouldn't want to attempt swapping out one of those with fuel still in the tank :yikes:
 
N801BH said:
And that 260GTX fuel is in perfect position to replace 100LL... They have test data for it, production facilities to make it and distribution would be pretty simple..... Price per gallon would be very competitive to current 100LL and maybe cheaper when they ramp up and mass produce it..IMHO.

Ben...
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That fuel may do well in engines that operate at the RPM that race cars do, but try it in an over bored engine operating under 3000 rpm @ full throttle.
 
Tom-D said:
That fuel may do well in engines that operate at the RPM that race cars do, but try it in an over bored engine operating under 3000 rpm @ full throttle.
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I would be willing to bet a nice juicy New York Strip the 260 would work perfectly.............. Octane is your friend ya know......

Ben.
 
Tom-D said:
"Just Dumb" Unless you really enjoy cleaning plugs, The low compression engines were not designed to run leaded fuel, and they don't burn hot enough to scavenge lead and it simply collects on every thing in the engine.
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I've been very happy with the Tempest Massive Electrode plugs and a 50:50 mix of pure MOGAS and 100LL. Check the plugs last weekend and all were fine (75 hours since installed). Compression is 6.5:1 with 2550 RPM redline.
 
N801BH said:
And that 260GTX fuel is in perfect position to replace 100LL... They have test data for it, production facilities to make it and distribution would be pretty simple..... Price per gallon would be very competitive to current 100LL and maybe cheaper when they ramp up and mass produce it..IMHO.
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Auto fuel is not blended optimally for aviation use. Our engines are significantly different, and must operate in a very different temperature/pressure environment. However, it shouldn't be that hard to apply the technology behind 260GTX to an aviation gasoline.
 
Tom-D said:
Been there tried that.. I've also had 100LL in my armpit.

The best way to remove and replace a leaking drain valve from a fuel tank that has fuel in it, is to use a rubber glove with a big cuff. and be quick.
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This reminds me of replacing or cleaning thru hull transducers on boats that are below the waterline.

Be quick! Amazing how much water comes through a 1.5" hole a few feet below the water..
 
Ron Levy said:
Auto fuel is not blended optimally for aviation use. Our engines are significantly different, and must operate in a very different temperature/pressure environment. However, it shouldn't be that hard to apply the technology behind 260GTX to an aviation gasoline.
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260GTX is not an auto fuel at all... It is a specially blended racing fuel that is geared toward high compression motors. Alot of off road aircooled racing motors use it in vast quanties without any problems and those conditions mirror aviation use almost exactly.... The only thing I am not sure about is its ability to stay 'fresh' during long term storage and we all know 100LL is outstanding in that area... I do agree it would not be too hard to 'reformulate' the blend though..

Ben.
 
Ron Levy said:
Tim's right -- and there are no catalytic convertors in lawn mowers. In fact, until 2007, NASCAR was running leaded fuel until political correctness (from NASCAR? :confused:) drove them to change to the newer unleaded Sunoco 260GTX fuel.
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They didn't want the fans getting any dumber from lead poisoning.

I like nascar.. been to a few races. Some of the fans though... woah ..


One thing I hate about mogas is the smell it leaves in your GATS jar or Fuel Stick. You can chuck a GATS jar that used 100LL in the back of your plane and not think twice. If you use mogas that same GATS jar will stink up the plane. I think I'm going to get a sealed container that both can fit in, cause I just started flying a mogas STC airplane and it stinks.
 
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dell30rb said:
They didn't want the fans getting any dumber from lead poisoning.

I like nascar.. been to a few races. Some of the fans though... woah ..
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+1.... There are some fans in the grandstands that are "on the backside of the smart curve"..:D:rofl::rofl::rofl::wink2:
 
I love NASCAR -- kind of a meeting between the technology of air racing and the entertaining personalities of professional wrestling. And yeah, some of the fans go to the races just 'cause their wife won't let them get that drunk and that loud at home. But it's still a lot of fun, and if you have your "ears" on, you can't hear them, anyway.

I'm ready for next Wednesday. Go, Denny, GO!
800px-11_Denny_Hamlin_Fed_Ex_Car.jpg
 
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I got an idea! :idea:

Fly RV's and you don't have to worry about gross. :rolleyes:

Seriously, the planes are designed with extreme useful loads. :D
 
Geico266 said:
I got an idea! :idea:

Fly RV's and you don't have to worry about gross. :rolleyes:

Seriously, the planes are designed with extreme useful loads. :D
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Just no where to put it.

Seriously, the cockpits in those are small, and the tandem models require a shoehorn and Vaseline to get in the back seat.
 
Tom-D said:
"Just Dumb" Unless you really enjoy cleaning plugs, The low compression engines were not designed to run leaded fuel, and they don't burn hot enough to scavenge lead and it simply collects on every thing in the engine.
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For things like lawn mowers, tractors, tugs, generators... Even good quality plugs are so cheap they're a throwaway item.

Clean 'em? Are you kidding? I'm cheap but not that cheap. Maybe if I saved up four or five of them. Waiting for that day would mean I would be a very old man.

100LL makes its way through various small engines around here. I pull the plugs every year when changing oil and never seen anything on 'em in years.

Nevertheless, there's spare spark plugs usually sitting on the shelf at the hangar or at home, 10 minutes away.
 
Ron Levy said:
I love NASCAR -- kind of a meeting between the technology of air racing and the entertaining personalities of professional wrestling. And yeah, some of the fans go to the races just 'cause their wife won't let them get that drunk and that loud at home. But it's still a lot of fun, and if you have your "ears" on, you can't hear them, anyway.

I'm ready for next Wednesday. Go, Denny, GO!
800px-11_Denny_Hamlin_Fed_Ex_Car.jpg
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WoW

Would you look at that! he's making another left turn.
 
denverpilot said:
Clean 'em? Are you kidding? I'm cheap but not that cheap. Maybe if I saved up four or five of them. Waiting for that day would mean I would be a very old man.
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+1

A new spark plug for my mower is like $2 or $3. When I have carburetor problems I don't even mess with it, I just buy a brand new carb, for $10. I wish airplane parts were this cheap.
 
denverpilot said:
For things like lawn mowers, tractors, tugs, generators... Even good quality plugs are so cheap they're a throwaway item.

Clean 'em? Are you kidding? I'm cheap but not that cheap. Maybe if I saved up four or five of them. Waiting for that day would mean I would be a very old man.

100LL makes its way through various small engines around here. I pull the plugs every year when changing oil and never seen anything on 'em in years.

Nevertheless, there's spare spark plugs usually sitting on the shelf at the hangar or at home, 10 minutes away.
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Harbor Air had a tug they used 100LL samples in, it was automatic, if you wanted to start it, change the plug first.
 
I flew with a KC-135 pilot for a time. He said they would taxi out at gross and if the temperature went up 1 degree they would sit in takeoff position at full throttle for a while to reduce weight by burning fuel.
 
kgruber said:
I flew with a KC-135 pilot for a time. He said they would taxi out at gross and if the temperature went up 1 degree they would sit in takeoff position at full throttle for a while to reduce weight by burning fuel.
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I watched from the tower at Manchester UK one afternoon as a Canadian B747 sitting near the end of the runway with the APU running waited for the temperature to drop two degrees so they could launch with the load they had, that being necessary to cross the pond. I also saw passengers denied boarding of an MD-80 at Albuquerque one hotter-than-forecast summer day when the long runway was closed because they had to reduce weight to take off on the short one and they had already minimzed the fuel load for the leg.
 
I used to sit at Boeing Field with a load of passengers waiting for takeoff minimums. We'd start up and wait in the runup area. Pretty soon the DC3 that was dropping fog dispersal chemicals would come by and dump their load right on the RVR meter, and away we would go.
 
Tom-D said:
Harbor Air had a tug they used 100LL samples in, it was automatic, if you wanted to start it, change the plug first.
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Bummer for them. My tug has been running on 100LL for years and starts on the first pull every time. :dunno:
 
kgruber said:
I used to sit at Boeing Field with a load of passengers waiting for takeoff minimums. We'd start up and wait in the runup area. Pretty soon the DC3 that was dropping fog dispersal chemicals would come by and dump their load right on the RVR meter, and away we would go.
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When Harbor Air was flying, they would be setting at the gas pumps waiting for the fog to go away, I'd taxi to the top of the hill and if I could see Naylor point I'd call and tell them it was clear. Pretty soon I'd see the chieftain taxing up out of the fog and away we'd go, And sure enough every thing from the bottom of the hill to the west would be fogged in, every thing from the top of the hill to the east would be clear.
 
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