Unanticipated ramp/handling fees

Discussion in 'Flight Following' started by Dave Siciliano, Apr 4, 2013.

  1. Dave Siciliano

    Dave Siciliano Final Approach

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    On the way to sim training in Orlando today, I stopped at KBKV to drop a friend. I've done this many years. I usually fill up on the way back to Dallas, but today I was informed if I didn't purchase 65 gallons of fuel right then, there would be a ramp charge of $65. When I asked if I could do that Monday on the way home, I was told no, I had to purchase fuel then or pay the ramp fee. I was caught completely off guard. Normally, on the return flight, I purchase 150 to 200 gallons, but that won't happen this trip. I'm very disappointed with their short sightedness. No need to stop here if it weren't for my friend wanting to visit. Guess I'll just fly past in the future.


    Checked Airnav before going. No mention of fees for American Aviation there. There needs to be some reasonable manner in which we can determine costs without having to call every FBO where we may stop in advance.
    Best,

    Dave
     
  2. Ted DuPuis

    Ted DuPuis Administrator Management Council Member

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    Dave: just curious, was this the first time in the KA vs the 58P?
     
  3. Brad Z

    Brad Z En-Route

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    Would be nice, but it wouldn't be an easy thing to compile or keep updated. FBOs never seem to advertise their fees, the fees vary on the size of the aircraft, and they never seem to be consistently applied. Heck, I've called ahead and been told something different by the time I arrived.

    In my opinion, things like landing fees charged by the airport should be in the FAA 5010 data. Transparency is good.
     
  4. Speed

    Speed Pre-takeoff checklist

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    Calling is good. Email might be better (paper trail). I called one FBO asking for a fuel quote, she said she would email me the price as it would take her a minute to figure it out. Later we were told by a manager that wasn't the correct price. I said I have it right here in my email - this is what I was quoted. They said they would honor it...
     
  5. Kelvin

    Kelvin En-Route PoA Supporter

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    After selling the 182 and getting into a PA46 airframe...the fees have doubled or more...I have always called ahead but now I am even more diligetn. I tell the gospel truth...tell them I have a single engine piston aircraft and get a name and a quote...

    I was surprised to learn that simply having 6 seats and similar models with pressurization and one that burns JetA cause the fees to double...sounds like the KA is getting a similar reaction.
     
  6. wabower

    wabower Touchdown! Greaser!

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    Numerous commodities and services cost more when they learn you have a big one.

     
  7. taters

    taters Pattern Altitude

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    wish the IPAD apps had something that would warn of ramp fees along with the displayed fuel prices....sorry to here Dave..that is crap
     
  8. EdFred

    EdFred Touchdown! Greaser! PoA Supporter

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    Call the manager and let them know how much business they lost, and will lose after this - and ask if it was really worth the $65.
     
  9. wabower

    wabower Touchdown! Greaser!

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    Very high percentage that you won't be talking to the person responsible for the policy or the decision on any single aircraft. "Uh, thanks, I'll let them know."

     
  10. EdFred

    EdFred Touchdown! Greaser! PoA Supporter

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    By "manager" I meant the person responsible for that. Not someone with a 50 cent name tag that says manager.
     
  11. wabower

    wabower Touchdown! Greaser!

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    How do you ever know? I personally think it's a WOT. The only way they will ever figure it out is by comparing fuel sale numbers to prior months. If they are up, they will think they are geniuses. If they are down, they will blame the weather or the economy or cheap-ass pilots or Bush.

     
  12. Brad Z

    Brad Z En-Route

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    Well someone's gotta pay for that free coffee, Perhaps some of us just figured out who...
     
  13. Zhunter

    Zhunter Pre-takeoff checklist

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    Are we still talking about planes???? :dunno:
     
  14. cowman

    cowman En-Route PoA Supporter

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    So what if your tanks hold less than 65 gallons total or you just haven't burned that much fuel yet? They just stick you for $65?

    Is there a guide to this stuff anywhere so one can know what airports to avoid?
     
  15. Zhunter

    Zhunter Pre-takeoff checklist

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    Maybe an Airports/FBO's to avoid thread needs to be started with a sticky
     
  16. Ted DuPuis

    Ted DuPuis Administrator Management Council Member

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    Usually the min fuel purchase is scaled with aircraft size. Something like 10 or less for a piston single, 20 for a twin, etc. In a King Air, 65 gallons is probably not out of line with scaling - most of the time the tanks will have that much empty.

    Airnav.com usually has good reviews on FBOs, whether positive or negative.
     
  17. Ted DuPuis

    Ted DuPuis Administrator Management Council Member

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    Why not just look at AirNav?
     
  18. EdFred

    EdFred Touchdown! Greaser! PoA Supporter

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    They used to, except the negative reviews usually get pulled down pretty quick if the FBO sees it.
     
  19. Zhunter

    Zhunter Pre-takeoff checklist

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    Good point


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
     
  20. Ted DuPuis

    Ted DuPuis Administrator Management Council Member

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    I had thought the FBO wasn't allowed to pick and choose reviews for that reason. I have seen FBOs take down their entire page on AirNav for negative reviews, though, and then you lose the negative comments.
     
  21. EdFred

    EdFred Touchdown! Greaser! PoA Supporter

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    The problem is the FBO is paying to advertise on AirNav. I've seen bad reviews disappear while the FBO page stays up.

    "Take this bad review down, or we'll stop paying you."

    "Done."
     
  22. Piloto

    Piloto Line Up and Wait

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    You are lucky you are flying in the US. In some countries i had seen were a guy comes to collect landing fees and then another guy for ramp fees and a last one for security services. Just to find out later on that none of them works for the government. Beware of these scams, specially if your plane registration start with an "N".

    José
     
  23. Keith Lane

    Keith Lane Pattern Altitude

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    Nothing at all on Airnav re: Ramp fees.

    Maybe if several potential customers call and ask if this incident with Dave happened to be true (In no way doubting Dave's account), then if true, you will be taking your business to another field, perhape KZPH. Tell them you read about this outrageous fee on PoA, one of America's premier pilot forums, with millions of, wait, make that tens of thousands of users.
     
  24. dell30rb

    dell30rb Final Approach PoA Supporter

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    Yessir

    The crappy FBO I am thinking of had "comments are limited to the last three months at the request of the FBO" on the airnav page for awhile. It was in very fine print and you would only notice it if you flew there, got steamed at them and then thought "well, F you guys i'm gonna go home and post on your air nav page"


    I've actually had a guy at Pickens Co airport (LQK) ask me if I used airnav and then if I wouldn't mind posting about my experience because "the airport board looks at it" I was happy to do so as he went well out of his way to help me out.
     
    Last edited: Apr 4, 2013
  25. cirrusmx

    cirrusmx Line Up and Wait

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    we have it easy. An FBO/airport charges 60 bucks, just go to the next one. People really like to complain about paying 60 dollars when they are burning that amount of fuel in 15 minutes. I usually let the FBO to collect fees from me, if they dont say anything by the time i have my engine running i am out of there.
     
  26. bnt83

    bnt83 Final Approach PoA Supporter

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    Maybe they eyeball you on the way in and guess what your plane might hold. Next time you fly in with a Cessna 150 it will be 10 gallons, Cessna 210 will be 30 and so on....
     
  27. weilke

    weilke Touchdown! Greaser! PoA Supporter

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    Places like Signature have a table with the usual aircraft types and the minimum fuel purchase to waive the ramp fee. Has led to interesting experiences when owners of 'Diamond DA40s' were told that they have to buy at least 120Ga (which is the amount for a Mitsubishi 'Diamond' Jet).

    Airports should be required to post their landing fees, FBOs should be required to post their ramp fees, no ramp fee should be allowed if the airport doesn't provide a public no-service ramp.
     
  28. flav8r

    flav8r Line Up and Wait

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    Did you post a review on Airnav.com?
    It seems that the last review was done back on 27 November 2012.
    This is where I would voice my complaint for now until a better system comes along.
     
  29. Everskyward

    Everskyward Administrator Management Council Member

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    Ramp fees are usually per day so if Dave was flying down one day and back in a few days the normal thing would be to get hit twice. The minimum fuel purchase and the fee is usually determined by the size of the airplane. There have been many times when we are parked on the ramp less than 1/2 hour and the fee is in the multiple hundreds. In fact I am always surprised when there is no fee or a low one.

    Dave knows what FBO I go to at his home airport. If we don't buy 200 gallons it's a $400 fee. At least we have been able to negotiate a discount on fuel because we are there so often.
     
    Last edited: Apr 4, 2013
  30. docmirror

    docmirror Touchdown! Greaser!

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    I'm still steamed at paying $48 for spending 55 minutes parked at Addison several years ago. Really chaps me, and I vow to never go back there for anything. It was one fee, no matter how long you stay.
     
  31. douglas393

    douglas393 Pattern Altitude

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    I find that an airport like KBKV which is literally in the middle of nowhere and has almost nothing to offer(last time I was there not even a restaurant) charges a fee(but maybe that is why they do), and when I spend a day at KPIE, KPMP, KFXE, KSGJ, etc no fees or anything. I went to KVRB a few months ago to have lunch with my big sister and went to the FBO. They have a fee but when they asked me they put it as have you been here before...No... well we have a fee but do not worry about it and next time go to the terminal and park there and there will be no fee. Now that is good service
     
  32. Palmpilot

    Palmpilot Touchdown! Greaser!

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    I have to wonder about the enforceability of a contract when one of the parties to the contract is not informed of the terms prior to entering into the contract.
     
  33. Palmpilot

    Palmpilot Touchdown! Greaser!

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    Reminds me of the old quip about why people rob banks: "Because that's where the money is."
     
  34. Ted DuPuis

    Ted DuPuis Administrator Management Council Member

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    I think in most cases nobody does anything, but they do keep a record of it if you return. More than anything it's a case of just presenting someone with a fee and most of the time it'll get paid.

    What's interesting is the city airport fees. I've gotten letters from BDR for years about a landing fee I paid, saying I still owed them. They've spent more money on postage by now than the landing fee in question.
     
  35. douglas393

    douglas393 Pattern Altitude

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    Years ago I had a credit card which I cancelled because I did not want to pay the yearly fees. When I cancelled it I owed 5 cents(there error if I remember from a check not being entered correctly). For almost 10 years I got a monthly bill from them with a 5 cents balance. This was despite me calling them at least 15 times telling them I was not going to pay postage to send them a check for 5 cents. I finally moved and the bills stopped.
     
  36. JGoodish

    JGoodish Cleared for Takeoff

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    AirNav has had a practice FOR YEARS of pulling reviews or even refusing to accept reviews for FBOs who demand it. I have personal, first-hand experience with this, and in my case, the reviews weren't even all that bad.

    When I catch comment-shuffling or an FBO listing that says "no comments" on AirNav, I avoid that FBO like the plague. Good FBOs don't need to worry about playing games to avoid poor reviews.


    JKG
     
  37. weilke

    weilke Touchdown! Greaser! PoA Supporter

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    The thing to remember with airnav is that the pilot is not their customer, the FBO is. The pilot (or his eyes) are the good sold by airnav.


    What I respect is if FBO managers post replies to bad reviews. Some pilots are rather ridiculous in their expectations and sometimes a post and its reply say more about the pilot than the facility.
     
  38. dell30rb

    dell30rb Final Approach PoA Supporter

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    I would have sent a check for 4 cents
     
  39. Skylane81E

    Skylane81E Final Approach

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    How to do it, when we still were an FBO we occasionally received some nasty, false reviews.

    Boss never tried to have them pulled, just issued a response.
     
  40. bnt83

    bnt83 Final Approach PoA Supporter

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    Just from reading this board its obvious nothing gets blown out of proportion like a bad experience.

    Sometimes its so bad it sounds like a 16 year old girl finding a zit on prom night... :goofy: