Two DUI’s seven years ago.. should I not try?

Discussion in 'Medical Topics' started by Aaron Ricciardulli, Nov 18, 2018.

  1. Aaron Ricciardulli

    Aaron Ricciardulli Filing Flight Plan

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    hey guys! Kind of buried the dream of ever being a polit along time ago. When I was 19 I was an absolute mess.. managed to get two DUI’s in a matter of a months span apart. Since than I have recovered and have been sober 7 years to the date actually. Should I not pursue this career as a flight instructor or anything having to do with flying??? Thank you guys
     
  2. Rushie

    Rushie Pattern Altitude

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    Repost this under Medical Topics. There is a lot of info there about how to handle a history of alcohol abuse with respect to flying.
     
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  3. TCABM

    TCABM Line Up and Wait

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    Search in medical topics for DUI and multiple DUI. Lots of info.

    Google AME guide DUI and follow the rabbit trail.
     
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  4. Dave Theisen

    Dave Theisen En-Route PoA Supporter

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    I think the OP’s question is more about eventually getting a job, not the medical process.
     
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  5. flyingron

    flyingron Touchdown! Greaser!

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    Here's the thread on what you're looking at to get a third class medical: https://www.pilotsofamerica.com/community/threads/3rd-class-medical-with-past-dwis.52917/
    Understand that when the FAA says "sobriety" they mean COMPLETE ABSTINENCE not just that you never go over 0.08% BAC. Absent that sort of commitment, you have ZERO future in aviation (either recreational or as a career).

    Actually, you don't need a medical to instruct except when the student is not legal to be PIC (in which case you only need a third) or are a required pilot (such as being safety pilot for simulated instrument flight). Just about any other commercial aviation needs at least a second class.

    Then you need to think about CFI itself as a career. I doubt many can make a career out of freelance CFI-ing. You just won't work enough. Allying yourself with a flight training operation may have qualms about someone who can't get a second or who has a history of substance abuse.
     
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  6. Aaron Ricciardulli

    Aaron Ricciardulli Filing Flight Plan

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  7. Salty

    Salty En-Route PoA Supporter

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    Can’t get the job without completing the medical process.
     
  8. Aaron Ricciardulli

    Aaron Ricciardulli Filing Flight Plan

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    Thank you guys for quick responses. Yes I’m talking like ZERO ALCHOHOL and drugs. Complete sobrie
     
  9. Aaron Ricciardulli

    Aaron Ricciardulli Filing Flight Plan

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    First off thank you for the content provided. Yes completely sober meaning not a drop of alchohol or dose of drug at all. So yes my concern is getting a career going in this industry. Other than a flight instructor it’s the major airlines? Wouldn’t they take a clean record over mine (saying I made it this far in the process with medical clearance)
     
  10. PeterNSteinmetz

    PeterNSteinmetz Pre-takeoff checklist

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    There are many other jobs/employers for pilots. Pipeline patrol, flying freight, etc. some of these will be less picky about a past history than the majors.
     
  11. vman

    vman Pre-takeoff checklist

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    take a discovery flight then get a medical & go from there
     
  12. skier

    skier Pre-takeoff checklist

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    Why not start with becoming a sport pilot (no medical required). If you enjoy flying you can become a sport pilot cfi and instruct (in lsa aircraft) without a medical. You could also become a ground instructor without a medical.

    That route would allow you to work in aviation while you determine whether you really want a full time career in it. You could always add ppl, instrument, commercial, and cfi later.
     
  13. Dave Theisen

    Dave Theisen En-Route PoA Supporter

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    But don’t spend the money completing that process if it’s not going to get you what you want.
     
  14. Groundpounder

    Groundpounder Line Up and Wait

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    You'll have a very hard time getting a job for a major, but should be able to get a job in the lower tiers of the aviation world.
     
  15. bbchien

    bbchien Touchdown! Greaser!

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    Did you blow, for either, or both? If so do you know what you blew?

    Can you document your recovery activities? - letter from an AA sponsor.
    Any peers who can testify you don't drink?
    any testing?

    Have you been to any formal rehab?

    I just had a guy who had been completely sober for >10 year after a single 0.244 BAC (ZOWIE) and diagnosis of alcohol dependency, after agreement by a HIMS psychiatrist and by a HIMS neuropsychologist, won full, unmonitored First class approval. His documentation of total sobriety was IMPRESSIVE and he showed us his 'truthiness" by being upfront with the training/recruitment captain a the regional, BEFORE he was accepted for training. I got a call from the training chief as to “what did I think?

    But at less than ten years, proof of abstinence and the agreement of a HIMS certified psychiatrist ( about $3k in cost, no guarantees) and HIMS psychologist is critical, and that could result in a monitored special issuance.
     
    Last edited: Nov 18, 2018
  16. lbfjrmd

    lbfjrmd Pre-takeoff checklist

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    agree with Dr B!

    depends on the burning desire! I have many alcoholic pilots in recovery flying for the airlines. some still with the HIMS-SI and other having since passed that 5 year SI mark and are know on their own. Lotta jobs in 'rotary' too!
     
  17. Aaron Ricciardulli

    Aaron Ricciardulli Filing Flight Plan

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  18. Aaron Ricciardulli

    Aaron Ricciardulli Filing Flight Plan

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    both drug related TBH, I can of course get several members of AA and my Sponsor to write a letter and anybody who knows me would vouch, however theres no way I have documentation of the thousands of meetings I've been too just because I don't need to satisfy any Judge or Court anymore ya know? No rehab and if there is a test that could show those years, that would be helpful if it exists. So this case you mentioned, seems like the route I would take. What would be my very first initial step(s) please to your knowledge! and thank you so much.. theres a lot of content coming up here. First Medical clearing, than flight school? and than what?
     
  19. Aaron Ricciardulli

    Aaron Ricciardulli Filing Flight Plan

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    both drug related TBH, I can of course get several members of AA and my Sponsor to write a letter and anybody who knows me would vouch, however theres no way I have documentation of the thousands of meetings I've been too just because I don't need to satisfy any Judge or Court anymore ya know? No rehab and if there is a test that could show those years, that would be helpful if it exists. So this case you mentioned, seems like the route I would take. What would be my very first initial step(s) please to your knowledge! and thank you so much.. theres a lot of content coming up here. First Medical clearing, than flight school? and than what?
     
  20. bbchien

    bbchien Touchdown! Greaser!

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    A few negative random urines
    Letters from the recovery community.
    Copies of the court papers
    Cogscreen
    HIMS psychiatry evaluation

    If all is good your chances of a monitored special issuance sre pretty fair.

    Note: the STANDARD is that you have to do rehab. So you will be going in “light”.
     
    Last edited: Nov 18, 2018
  21. aaron.ricci

    aaron.ricci Guest



    Your are extremely helpful thank you. I hope you know you may make a dream come true..
    So with the information provided above gathered perfectly, your saying I would take all of this to my flight school and I have a real chance? I didn't get sober in a rehab so if you wouldn't mind please elaborating "light"?
     
  22. AggieMike88

    AggieMike88 Touchdown! Greaser!

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    The original "I don't know it all" of aviation.
    Not to the flight school. You need to get this to the right HIMS level AME to get their help and guidance in preparing and submitting your documentation to FAA medical.

    This is not something a flight school is good at. Avoid involving the flight school until you have your medical certificate and special issuance in hand.

    And by "the right HIMS level AME", you need to be seeking out Doctor Bruce Chien or Doctor Lou Fowler, both who have taken time out of busy weekend to respond in this thread.

    And be aware and ready for this not to be a quick resolution. It may take a good while to prepare your submission, and then once submitted, approximately 9 to 10 months for the submission to make its way through channels. This is another reason to remain away from the school and only involve the HIMS AME until you have your medical certificate in hand.
     
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  23. Rushie

    Rushie Pattern Altitude

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    Light means you won't have the complete preferred history in the eyes of the FAA but if sufficient time has passed and you can get documented evidence of past AA meetings and the cogscreen and HIMS evaluation (which is $$$ by the way) it might be enough to satisfy the FAA.

    The main idea is do you "get it"? Meaning, do you really get that this is a lifelong condition and you are always in recovery which means no "social" drinking whatsoever forever and ever Amen. I am not preaching it to you, it sounds like you do get it, but just telling you that this is what the FAA will require to be proven and documented to them. Apparently they believe it is best accomplished through rehab. That's debatable in my opinion but my opinion counts not one iota with the FAA.

    One of these doctors will be able to confirm, but I think here's the thing: you've already been sober 7 years so I don't see requiring someone sober for 7 years to suddenly check themselves into rehab today. The issue becomes how to prove you have actually been sober for 7 years.

    Docs do I have this right?
     
  24. PaulS

    PaulS Final Approach

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    HIMS = Human Intervention Motivation study This is a specialized psychologist for substance problem applicants, you need to have approval by one of these docs per what your AME advises
    AME = Aviation Medical Examiner specialized doc who examines you for your medical.

    Suggest you start with a consult with Dr Bruce or Dr Lou to start this process, not all AMEs are the same, these two are excellent.
     
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  25. bbchien

    bbchien Touchdown! Greaser!

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    Like Rushie sez, the preferred "known outcome" route is to have been through rehab.
    The alternate route is to prove two years' abstinence (random urine test program).
    The wild card route (you) is trying to prove you have been abstinent with testimony for the recovery community and bosses. Becuase this is qualitiative it is "touchy" but it can be done.
     
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  26. Aaron.ricci

    Aaron.ricci Guest

    Ahh, the wild card route and finances seem so discouraging.. still not out for the count at this moment though. A little frustrating because I got sober in AA on the street not rehab...
     
  27. texasclouds

    texasclouds Line Up and Wait

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    Well there is no way your last name would fit on your nametag, so airlines is out. UPS or FedEx probably won’t care if you have face or neck tattoos. As for being a cfi, they are not picky right now.
     
  28. vman

    vman Pre-takeoff checklist

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    one step at a time then go from there
     
  29. FlyingPiano

    FlyingPiano Filing Flight Plan

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    I am the guy Dr. Bruce refers to. It’s going to take patience, and about $5-6k. But if you want to fly that is nothing.

    Everyone who weighs in is correct about being sober. Only go for it if you’re really sober and trust me, anybody who assesses will know. They speak the language. If you are, there is nothing to fear.

    A word of encouragement. These guys all want pilots to fly. And most know what an asset someone who is truly in recovery can be.

    I don’t know of the other AME but I can’t say enough about Dr. Chien.

    If I knew how to send a PM I would. I’d be happy to share my experience with you.
     
  30. AggieMike88

    AggieMike88 Touchdown! Greaser!

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    The original "I don't know it all" of aviation.
    Congrats on your progress and hard won successes!


    For this forum software, they call PMs a "conversation".

    To start one, click the name under the contributor's avatar

    upload_2018-11-21_10-23-54.png

    Then click "Start a Conversation"

    upload_2018-11-21_10-25-37.png


    However, it would be very helpful to our general members to have your story as a public item we can share with folks who come to PoA with similar problems.

    As you can see, many of us are frequently sharing with the new person what steps and commitment are needed to make the FAA happy when there are alcohol related events in their past. But since they do not yet have an idea of what, how, why, or the scope of the process, they continue to get lost. By having your story that shares "I was there where you are now. But did these things and my flying dream is being fulfilled" is waaaaaay more powerful and helpful to them than anything us in the gallery can share.
     
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  31. aaron.ricci

    aaron.ricci Guest


    This is refreshing to read. I truly have come along way no I'm just shooting for the stars these days. Somebody also told me to just attempt to get my 1st class medical without any of my letters from the community (AA) /past employers, court paperwork, etc and than wait for the FAA letter of why I cannot and THAN go through the hoops. What are your thoughts?
     
  32. SCCutler

    SCCutler Administrator Management Council Member PoA Supporter

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    Bearing in mind that I am just a lawyer, and not a skilled and experienced AME (for those guys, see above), I can nonetheless tell you that simply applying and waiting for the rejection would be an exceedingly foolish approach. I know how administrative world works, and pretending an issue does not exist (which is effectively what a First Class application under these circumstances would add up to) would be a recipe for disaster, and likely would materially harm the ability to ever get to your goal. In this space,issuance is a discretionary act on the part of FAA Aeromedical, and applying without first dealing with the 1200-pound gorilla would show poor judgment - perhaps serve as the third strike.

    You know the issue is there, so address it FIRST.
     
  33. Rushie

    Rushie Pattern Altitude

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    I agree with Spike. Part of the problem is that when you apply, if you don't get issued you will lock yourself out of Sport Pilot. So you want to be as certain as you can be, before ever letting an application go live, that you will eventually end up getting issued. That means working with an AME who is very knowledgeable and experienced in these sorts of cases. I would think a good AME wouldn't let you just apply without any of the documentation they KNOW the FAA is going to require.
     
  34. aaron.ricci

    aaron.ricci Guest

    Ok thank you again everyone who is taking the time to respond to this thread. You are all truly exceptional individuals.

    1) Get the Court Paperwork of my case
    Letters from the AA community and other persons vouching my sobriety
    HIMS evaluation for my dependency

    2) THAN take this to the AME with ALL of my ducks in a row where the AME sends all of this to the FAA. Meanwhile, I hope for the best down the pipeline with all of my documentation and my new life of sobriety

    And from earlier in the feed, hypothetically things go to plan.. I shouldn't have a problem creating an actual career in the air.
     
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  35. AggieMike88

    AggieMike88 Touchdown! Greaser!

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    The original "I don't know it all" of aviation.
    Do not go to just any AME. You need to go to a HIMS AME who
    1. Has top level success for cases like yours
    2. Has space on his roster to take you on
    3. Is beyond willing able and capable to see your submission through to the successful end.
    Two that meet these criteria are Doctors Bruce Chien and Lou Fowler.
     
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  36. 3393RP

    3393RP Pattern Altitude

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    You've been sober for seven years. That's a great thing. If you want to fly, use that same personal strength to overcome the hurdles in your path. It can be done.

    The good doctors that have commented can help you, and they are very good at what they do. Seek their guidance.
     
  37. Eric Stoltz

    Eric Stoltz Pre-takeoff checklist

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    Rarely have we seen a person fail who has throughly followed our path. You will receive the Keys to the Kingdom!

    This process is definitely worth the work. Keep following the advice here and listen to the Great Spirit and you will have no problem flying airplanes for a living.

    Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G891A using Tapatalk
     
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