Twin Engine Failure

Losing one then the other... fuel exhaustion? But, let's wait for the preliminary after they investigate it underwater.
 
Depends somewhat on the type of plane, but given the little amount of info, I have to agree with the others that fuel exhaustion is most likely. If he had just fueled, I would suspect the line boy put Jet A in the tanks for him instead of 100LL, assuming it was a piston. Like Ken said, though, it's best to wait for the reports. Too many variables.
 
2256Q said:
Depends somewhat on the type of plane, but given the little amount of info, I have to agree with the others that fuel exhaustion is most likely. If he had just fueled, I would suspect the line boy put Jet A in the tanks for him instead of 100LL, assuming it was a piston. Like Ken said, though, it's best to wait for the reports. Too many variables.
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http://tinyurl.com/3n7da4

http://www.naplesnews.com/videos/detail/plane-crash-near-cape-romano/

Cessna 310 Twin into the water :fcross:

PIC Robert Dohm is CAP CAPS; scuttlebutt here is electrical failure (as in a somewhat known issue w/ the 310). I live outside Marco. Here's an international version of the same story.

http://tinyurl.com/4grxuf :hairraise:

This is a typical flight from Marco to Key West 30-45 minutes +, I'd rule out lack of fuel. Our weather here changes in a heartbeat. The Gulf is constantly pushing moisture into the air and thunderstorms every mid-afternoon is expected. The winds move the air streams in all directions but it was clear 10m out when the six hit the drink.
 
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thepetrostate said:
PIC Robert Dohm is CAP CAPS; scuttlebutt here is electrical failure (as in a somewhat known issue w/ the 310).
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The electrical issue in the news story was something that happened to the pilot they were interviewing in his own past, NOT the accident airplane. Besides, electrical failures do not cause engine failures (except in the instance of a FADEC-equipped plane with no backup such as the DA42 before the backup batteries were added).

This is a typical flight from Marco to Key West 30-45 minutes +, I'd rule out lack of fuel.
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Did he fuel before leaving? It's quite possible he departed with less than full fuel, especially since he had all 6 seats full.

Our weather here changes in a heartbeat. The Gulf is constantly pushing moisture into the air and thunderstorms every mid-afternoon is expected. The winds move the air streams in all directions but it was clear 10m out when the six hit the drink.
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How does weather cause engine failures? :dunno:

There aren't a whole lot of things that will cause a dual engine failure - Lack of fire may indicate fuel starvation. Fuel contamination is a possibility as well, though with the plane in the drink that will be hard to determine.

Regardless, he did do a good job of putting it down - Only minor injuries, and it sounds like he got the rescue wheels rolling on the way down as well.
 
thepetrostate said:
http://tinyurl.com/3n7da4

http://www.naplesnews.com/videos/detail/plane-crash-near-cape-romano/

Cessna 310 Twin into the water :fcross:

PIC Robert Dohm is CAP CAPS; scuttlebutt here is electrical failure (as in a somewhat known issue w/ the 310). I live outside Marco. Here's an international version of the same story.

http://tinyurl.com/4grxuf :hairraise:

This is a typical flight from Marco to Key West 30-45 minutes +, I'd rule out lack of fuel. Our weather here changes in a heartbeat. The Gulf is constantly pushing moisture into the air and thunderstorms every mid-afternoon is expected. The winds move the air streams in all directions but it was clear 10m out when the six hit the drink.
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I'm not all that familiar with the 310, but the fuel system should be about the same as the ones on my 411 and 421 aircraft. If so, the left and right engine fuel systems are totally isolated from each other, with the exception of cross-feed capability. In that aircraft, once it is up and flying, I know of no electrical failure that will kill the engines. You might have a problem starting the engines with an electrical failure, but not once they're running. Only thing that makes sense to me is fuel contamination. A double engine failure is a rare cat indeed. Thank goodness they had an experienced pilot. :yes:
 
On a turbocharged plane, I've seen a dual engine failure where one had a catastrophic failure (not just stopped running, ), and then after running the other at presumably full power, the other engine also had a catastrophic failure. However those were turbocharged engines in a larger plane, and who knows what else was going on (the report made it look like the pilot didn't use the mixture knob properly).

For the engines to just quit running without any massive failures (of the rotating assembly) it's either fuel or spark, and spark seems generally unlikely due to the dual mags.
 
2256Q said:
IThank goodness they had an experienced pilot. :yes:
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If (no guess as to whether this is true) the pilot ran out of fuel, those passengers who praised the pilot's skill will likely sue him for his lack of judgment.
 
2256Q said:
I'm not all that familiar with the 310, but the fuel system should be about the same as the ones on my 411 and 421 aircraft. If so, the left and right engine fuel systems are totally isolated from each other, with the exception of cross-feed capability. In that aircraft, once it is up and flying, I know of no electrical failure that will kill the engines. You might have a problem starting the engines with an electrical failure, but not once they're running. Only thing that makes sense to me is fuel contamination. A double engine failure is a rare cat indeed. Thank goodness they had an experienced pilot. :yes:
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Got to thinking the same thing. If it is a fuel contamination issue, would it more likely show up as fuel is consumed (water floats?)
 
thepetrostate said:
Got to thinking the same thing. If it is a fuel contamination issue, would it more likely show up as fuel is consumed (water floats?)
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AvGas is less dense than water and therefore floats above any water in the tanks.
 
lancefisher said:
AvGas is less dense than water and therefore floats above any water in the tanks.
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Let's try that again. When the water sinks, would the C310 pull the contaminated AvGas into the engine early in the flight? :dunno:
 
Our weather here changes in a heartbeat. The Gulf is constantly pushing moisture into the air and thunderstorms every mid-afternoon is expected. The winds move the air streams in all directions but it was clear 10m out when the six hit the drink.
flyingcheesehead said:
How does weather cause engine failures? :dunno: There aren't a whole lot of things that will cause a dual engine failure - Lack of fire may indicate fuel starvation. Fuel contamination is a possibility as well, though with the plane in the drink that will be hard to determine.
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My weather comment was an aside but I can see how I made it look like a possibility.
 
thepetrostate said:
Got to thinking the same thing. If it is a fuel contamination issue, would it more likely show up as fuel is consumed (water floats?)
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The contamination I was thinking of was the Jet A instead of avgas. One would hope there couldn't have been enough water in the tanks to kill both fans. Guess anything is possible.
 
thepetrostate said:
Let's try that again. When the water sinks, would the C310 pull the contaminated AvGas into the engine early in the flight? :dunno:
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If there's enough water in the tanks to bring the water level up to the fuel pickup (typically not the lowest point in the tank) then water or a water/fuel mix would be fed to the engine. A common scenario is to have less water than that but still get water out of the tank when the plane is pitched up .

Jet fuel will mix quite well with avgas and it doesn't take much to lower the octane rating a bunch.
 
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