Twin Comanche

[Aztec Driver]

Anyone have any good/bad/indifferent feedback on a Twin Comanche? Any Gotchas to worry about? These are old birds, so is parts availability a problem? If maintenance is reasonable throughout the years, is 1966 too old? (not for people, just the plane!) I have a chance to buy one, and it is a lot cheaper than the newer Mooney's I have been looking at. Panel would need updated, as it doesn't have a standard t formation.

 

[Shipoke]

Bryon i have a buddy at CXY that has a Twin Comanche, if you email me your phone number i'll give it to him and he can tell you all you want to know about them. He Loves His
Dave G

 

[flyingcheesehead]

I'm a fan of the Twinkies and I've probably looked into buying them more than any other type. However, I've only flown one and haven't owned any.

The gotcha that's mentioned most is the landing gear bungees. I believe there's an AD on them... But I'm sure you know where to find that info.

Corrosion is generally not a problem on the Twinkies.

1966 was the first year of the "B" Twinkie. It's easy to tell the difference from the A, as the B and C have a third side window and some of them have six seats (the last two pretty much entirely eat up the baggage compartment.) Shotgun panel was standard until 1969. B and C models were also available in a turbocharged variant which came from the factory with tip tanks and oxygen.

Miller mods (200hp engines, modified nacelles with wing lockers, dorsal fin, long nose with baggage compartment) will fetch a premium both when buying and when selling. They are no longer available.

Tip tanks are a popular and worthwhile add-on. MGTOW is increased by 125 lbs, and that entire 125 lbs must be fuel in the tips, but it's quite easy to simply leave the aux tanks empty and fill the tips instead to get a "free" weight increase.

Other mods that are still available include speed mods (cowls, aileron and flap gap seals, gear lobes), counter-rotating mod (replace 1 engine and prop, effectively making it a PA-39).

Mods that I think are still available but I'm really not sure: One-piece windscreen, STOL kit, and small nosewheel mod (which keeps it from wanting to fly itself off below Vmc, and I've heard also makes it easier to land).

Obviously, you can mod the heck out of these birds.

There are a couple of Twinkie owners on the boards, Ryan Ferguson and Charlie Melot come to mind.

IMHO, you can certainly do a lot worse than a Twin Comanche. It'll perform slightly better than a 201 and give you the advantages and "cool factor" of the twin. Fuel burn will be increased, but not by a lot. Range, especially with the tip tanks, is outstanding. Not too many gotchas, and in general they're doing quite well for their age.

BTW, when you re-do the panel, consider the Garmin 600. You'll end up converting the "Poor man's Baron" into the "Poor man's TwinStar."

Lots more info online:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Piper_PA-30_Twin_Comanche
http://www.fergworld.com/twincomanche/
http://www.comancheflyer.com/the-comanche-story.php?story=PA30_39

 

[ApacheBob]

My friend owned one and loved it.
The early criticism about the Twin Comanche was due to students getting into trouble. It was marketed as a good multi training platform. But that sleek frame made it very dangerous to go too slow. Flat spins were a concern as the tip tanks create a propotionally higher moment.
But the people that own them, love them. They are fast (compared to my 1957 Apache) and cheap on AvGas. And they look hot!

ApacheBob

 

[Pilawt]

After Hurricane Agnes trashed the PA-24/30/39 assembly line in Lock Haven in 1972, Piper continued tinkering with the design for another couple of years, trying to iron out the Twin Comanche's remaining handling issues. The result was the PA-40 Arapaho -- which turned a beautiful duckling into an ugly swan.

Note in the photo the longer MLG legs, addressing complaints about landing qualities; and the unsightly long dorsal and ventral fins and side strakes. The redesigned windows improved the view from the inside ... but not from the outside, IMO.

-- Pilawt

 

[gismo]

I've known a couple of Twinkie owners and both loved their planes.

One is still flying his and recently went with new paint and interior making the think look fresh off the showroom floor. He's also got some of the speed mods (like engine cowls) but doesn't believe they did much for TAS.

I was just talking to him about it last Wednesday and he pointed out that he found a solution to the infamous hard landing problem. He discovered that if he dials in lots of nose up trim (like maybe all the way up) this allows him to maintain elevator control into and beyond the touchdown, something that eluded him in the past. His airplane doesn't have VG's which he was told also address this issue with something like 70 VGs on the underside of the stabilator.

 

[Anthony]

After Hurricane Agnes trashed the PA-24/30/39 assembly line in Lock Haven in 1972, Piper continued tinkering with the design for another couple of years, trying to iron out the Twin Comanche's remaining handling issues. The result was the PA-40 Arapaho -- which turned a beautiful duckling into an ugly swan.

Note in the photo the longer MLG legs, addressing complaints about landing qualities; and the unsightly long dorsal and ventral fins and side strakes. The redesigned windows improved the view from the inside ... but not from the outside, IMO.

Oh, that is ugly. Yikes.

 

[flyingcheesehead]

Oh, that is ugly. Yikes.

Not as ugly as a Shorts.

Still not as nice-looking as a Twinkie though. The other problem is that they were prone to flat spins. Only three PA-40's were ever built, and at least one of them was crashed during certification testing due to a flat spin. The test pilot who bailed out of it was none other than Clay Lacy (who now owns an FBO at VNY and is one of the stars of One Six Right.) Another plane was scrapped by Piper, and N9997P in the picture is the only one that still exists.

I think the most popular piece of the PA40 was the new windscreen, that is a fairly popular mod for Twinkies to have.

Oddly enough, for a plane that didn't make it to market, the PA40 actually did complete certification.