TSA damage control

How is this TSA damage control?
 
Last edited:
Any of you airline types have any idea how (on what basis) DOT could take "action" against Mesaba for this?

DOT press release
 
Last edited:
The recordings of the conversation between the Mesaba Captain and dispatch make it clear (to me at least) that the Captain thought the terminal was closed and that they couldn't get the pax off the airplane.
 
I'm still trying to understand why no one on the aircraft didn't turn on their cell phone and call the local police, the local FBI office and the local TV stations.
 
murphey said:
I'm still trying to understand why no one on the aircraft didn't turn on their cell phone and call the local police, the local FBI office and the local TV stations.
Click to expand...

Just start sending cell phone video to CNN. In 10 minutes, it's BREAKING NEWS!!!, because they have the video. Then they will have live conversations with passengers trapped on the plane.

Then CNN will be hounding the authorities about why these people are trapped.

CNN LIVE REPORTS -- TRAPPED ON THE RAMP!

Want to get action?

When they feel the heat, they see the light.
 
murphey said:
I'm still trying to understand why no one on the aircraft didn't turn on their cell phone and call the local police, the local FBI office and the local TV stations.
Click to expand...
More importantly, I don't understand why none of the passengers just opened a door and took the escape slide down.

After a few hours on that plane, I'm sure I would have done that.
 
Tom Gresham said:
Just start sending cell phone video to CNN. In 10 minutes, it's BREAKING NEWS!!!, because they have the video. Then they will have live conversations with passengers trapped on the plane.
Click to expand...
I like this idea.

Looks like the CNN phone number is [FONT=Verdana, Arial]404-827-1500[/FONT] and I believe we send video to cnn@cnn.com I'm putting it into my cell phone now.

This page http://www.dailyalert.org/media-contact.html has contact info for many news organizations.

Joe
 
Remember folks, since we're not airline pilots, we "just don't get it."
 
sba55 said:
More importantly, I don't understand why none of the passengers just opened a door and took the escape slide down.

After a few hours on that plane, I'm sure I would have done that.
Click to expand...

What I said.

They can just call the cops and the feds on me.

We'd both go to the power of the online community.
Imagine the idea that a certificated pilot was a threat on the airport tarmac.
 
sba55 said:
More importantly, I don't understand why none of the passengers just opened a door and took the escape slide down.

After a few hours on that plane, I'm sure I would have done that.
Click to expand...

Because most folks don't want to be arrested. While 6 hours on a plane is bad (personally, I would sue), defending yourself in court against federal charges is worse. A few months ago a guy got arrested for disregarding the FAs orders on a plane and going to the business class lavatory because a drink cart was blocking access to the economy class lavatory. FA tried to stop him. He pushed her hand away. He spent two days in jail and is still facing assault charges in federal court. Even if he beats the charges, my bet is that he will be put on the "no fly" list. This could be devastating for him because his job requires frequent airline travel to Central America.

Most likely if you went for the emergency door an FA would try to stop you. Push her hand away and now you're spending time in jail awaiting your charges. A better course of action would be to call the police and media. I would fake an illness before just grabing the emergency exit.

Then, if you are still ****ed, sue the airline. Screw those "free tickets" they offer you. There is a good chance you can get a few thousand from the airline because of what you endured. A friend of mine had a similar experience happen to her on an airline, and as a result developed severe panic attacks and agoraphobia. she is still dealing with it 11+ years later (she is currently on medication).
 
If the TSA didn't exist there would have been no "we can't let you off because the TSA is gone" excuse.
 
mcjon77 said:
Because most folks don't want to be arrested. While 6 hours on a plane is bad (personally, I would sue), defending yourself in court against federal charges is worse. A few months ago a guy got arrested for disregarding the FAs orders on a plane and going to the business class lavatory because a drink cart was blocking access to the economy class lavatory.
Click to expand...
I don't think those two cases are comparable. We are all familiar with the provisions that talk about interfering with a flight crew. I doubt that false arrest on a plane is one of them.

If I did get arrested (I very much doubt it, especially given the media/politician outcry), I would have an excellent case in court. Countersue and make some money.
 
sba55 said:
...If I did get arrested (I very much doubt it, especially given the media/politician outcry), I would have an excellent case in court...
Click to expand...
And I am sure that your defense attorney who bills at $300 an hour will make that case in front of the jurry. After a mere $10,000-$20,000 in attorneys fees, you stand a good chance of being vindicated.

I doubt you would get anywhere near enough from a lawsuit to pay your incurred legal expenses, especially since it was the U.S. Attorney, not the airline that brought you under indictment.

I know just getting up and using the emergency exit "feels" like the right thing to do. But long term, it is a losing proposition. You might get some cheers from guys on forums and talk show hosts, but in the end it will cost you more than the alternative strategies.
 
My wife is diabetic.. we would not have been on that airplane that long without food.

She travels with snacks... but how do you justify eating when no one else has anything.

We've already discussed this. She and I both have cell phones.. we check her blood sugar.. and if is going down... she eats.. and makes a phone call to 911.
 
New Rule: If you're stuck on a plane that's not moving for more than five hours, you get to punch an airline executive.
Click to expand...

Fixed.

After the first incident with 50+ pax, the command of airplanes will be moved back to the captain where it belongs.
 
Last edited:
mcjon77 said:
And I am sure that your defense attorney who bills at $300 an hour will make that case in front of the jurry. After a mere $10,000-$20,000 in attorneys fees, you stand a good chance of being vindicated.

I doubt you would get anywhere near enough from a lawsuit to pay your incurred legal expenses, especially since it was the U.S. Attorney, not the airline that brought you under indictment.

I know just getting up and using the emergency exit "feels" like the right thing to do. But long term, it is a losing proposition. You might get some cheers from guys on forums and talk show hosts, but in the end it will cost you more than the alternative strategies.
Click to expand...
No, I don't think you're quite understanding the impact on all this that the public and politicians I have. In any case, were this to happen to me, you can stay behind while I get some food :)

I can't even imagine how this would work for diabetics or people who rely on medication that they don't have with them...
 
TMetzinger said:
The recordings of the conversation between the Mesaba Captain and dispatch make it clear (to me at least) that the Captain thought the terminal was closed and that they couldn't get the pax off the airplane.
Click to expand...

It wasn't a Mesaba plane. It was ExpressJet; they don't normally operate at the airport and asked Mesaba, which does operate there, for help. DOT is blaming Mesaba because its representative at Rochester told ExpressJet that they couldn't offload because TSA had gone home.
 
sba55 said:
...In any case, were this to happen to me, you can stay behind while I get some food :)...
Click to expand...
Great! While you're out, get me one of those mini-deep dish pizzas and a mountain dew from the food court.:thumbsup:
 
kkoran said:
It wasn't a Mesaba plane. It was ExpressJet; they don't normally operate at the airport and asked Mesaba, which does operate there, for help. DOT is blaming Mesaba because its representative at Rochester told ExpressJet that they couldn't offload because TSA had gone home.
Click to expand...
OK.

Then the conversation was between the ExpressJet Captain and Dispatch. Bottom line (and my point) was that the Captain apparently sincerely believed they could not unload the airplane. So until we get back to the Captain really having authority and having that authority respected by all other parties, I can't blame the crew very much.

I'd like to think that in that position I would have deplaned the airplane, led them off the ramp, and let them fire me if that's what happened. But I've been broke and it doesn't scare me the way it might someone younger.
 
TMetzinger said:
OK.

Then the conversation was between the ExpressJet Captain and Dispatch. Bottom line (and my point) was that the Captain apparently sincerely believed they could not unload the airplane. So until we get back to the Captain really having authority and having that authority respected by all other parties, I can't blame the crew very much.
Click to expand...
Emphasis mine.

I think you nailed this Tim. That is the problem, the captain is only responsible in theory. In actuality he/she has little authority as it seems dispatch and nameless, remote, corporate bureaucrats have the real power.
 
Really, the FAA seems to be the only agency that still recognizes the PIC as having authority. The TSA, the airports, the airlines, pbbbbt.
 
This reminds me of the last time I flew to Florida. We encountered the same situation. The weather was bad in Panama city meaning visibility was down to 0 so we had to divert to Tallahassee. When we landed and taxied up to the terminal it was like a clip off of the movie Langoliers. It was dark and deserted. We sat in the airplane for an hour (thankfully not 6) although in the beginning they could not tell us how long we would be stuck in our seats. The flight attendants told us the same reason, "security has gone home and there is no one to let us in the airport" My cell was almost dead but I just enough to call my family and tell them what happened. I kept thinking, "how in the world can they make this an alternate airport if no one is around to even let us off the plane?" We landed in Tallahassee around 8:30, the bus they promised everyone didn't get there until around 11:30. I had given up waiting for this mysterious bus so I just called family to pick me up. Panama city is about an hour away but they picked me up around the same time as the bus arrivals.
 
So the question still remains, on what basis could DOT take "action" against Mesaba for this? What law or rule did they violate?
 
That is ridiculous -- Rochester Aviation or whatever they are called now is open 24x7 and has the capacity to handle jets *MUCH* larger than that one. (They often get BBJ 737s from Saudi Arabia). They would be a short taxi away.

Dial 911, talk to Rochester PD, you'd likely get right off. Otherwise take the emergency exit and call up the talk shows.
 
Last edited:
TMetzinger said:
OK.

I'd like to think that in that position I would have deplaned the airplane, led them off the ramp, and let them fire me if that's what happened. But I've been broke and it doesn't scare me the way it might someone younger.
Click to expand...

I don't even think the Express jet E-135s have airstairs to get the people off. It would be nice to have that option.

The trouble is, you are making the descision to deplane, risk TSA action, FAA certificate action, probably give up a job and very likely a career for a non-safety of flight issue. How many people are realistically going to do that.

The crew seems to have done about as much as they could.
 
According to the news last night, Schumer is steaming mad and has promised a "Passenger Bill of Rights" which will require airlines to give passengers the option to get off a plane "if it can be safely done".

The loophole is sooo.... obvious.

Once again: Schumer grandstanding about a bill that will prove ineffective.
 
jesse said:
That is ridiculous -- Rochester Aviation or whatever they are called now is open 24x7 and has the capacity to handle jets *MUCH* larger than that one. (They often get BBJ 737s from Saudi Arabia). They would be a short taxi away.

Dial 911, talk to Rochester PD, you'd likely get right off. Otherwise take the emergency exit and call up the talk shows.
Click to expand...

But the BBJ is likely part 91 or 135. It comes down to that magic red line that makes the 121 area "secure". Common sense does not apply to the TSA, and the "security" theater they perform.
 
vontresc said:
But the BBJ is likely part 91 or 135. It comes down to that magic red line that makes the 121 area "secure". Common sense does not apply to the TSA, and the "security" theater they perform.
Click to expand...

Off loading into a non-secure area isn't a problem.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top