Trespassing charge

Discussion in 'Medical Topics' started by Katie Dainson, Nov 27, 2018.

  1. Katie Dainson

    Katie Dainson Filing Flight Plan

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    Hey all,
    Anyone here have any experience renewing a medical after a trespassing misdemeanor conviction? No harm to property, no arrest. Case is still pending, no conviction yet, have a lawyer on it so hopefully it will get pleaded down. Possible penalty is a fine, no jail time. Just wondering what the consequences would be if convicted.
     
  2. Clip4

    Clip4 En-Route

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    You have to report it if convicted, but it will be no big deal. See if your attorney can get the case dropped with you paying court costs - no conviction.
     
  3. lbfjrmd

    lbfjrmd Pre-takeoff checklist

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    You have to report it if convicted !!!
     
  4. AggieMike88

    AggieMike88 Touchdown! Greaser!

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    The original "I don't know it all" of aviation.
    @Katie Dainson --- take what Dr. Lou said in Post #3 to the bank!

    He is one of our well respected AME's on this forum who knows what the FAA expects/wants.
     
  5. JOhnH

    JOhnH Touchdown! Greaser!

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    I certainly believe you, but may I ask WHY you have to report it even if you are not convicted? A lot of people get arrested my mistake. If they are pilots, do they all have to report all arrests, even if there is no conviction because of no crime?
     
  6. tawood

    tawood Pattern Altitude

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    Define "a lot"...
    By the way, go to any jail/prison, and ask how many people there are innocent...its nearly 100%!!!
     
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  7. JOhnH

    JOhnH Touchdown! Greaser!

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    Why do you ask? Do you doubt that anyone ever gets erroneously arrested?

    True, but how many people that do not get convicted are guilty? I'm guessing a "lot" less than 100%.

    My brother was arrested when he was 16. He was exonerated and released the next day when they caught the actual thief. If he had been a pilot then, would he have had to report that? (btw, he is not now, nor has he ever held a ppl).
     
  8. tawood

    tawood Pattern Altitude

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    I never said it doesn't happen...but you seem to be saying "it happens" and "it happens a lot" are the same thing...?
     
  9. timwinters

    timwinters Touchdown! Greaser! PoA Supporter

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    Not to hikack the thread but...

    Historically in Dallas area "it happened a Lot." Many prosecutors out there have the "arrest someone...anyone...to solve the case" mentality.

    Back In the '80's the Dallas district attorney's tongue-in-cheek credo was "'Anybody can convict a guilty man; it takes a real prosecutor to convict an innocent one."

    I had a few projects down there in the '80's. It was...ummm...interesting...
     
    Last edited: Nov 27, 2018
  10. DaleB

    DaleB En-Route

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    Even though there's supposedly a presumption of innocence, I don't think the FAA subscribes to that principle. Justifiably in some some respects. We all know that your chances of a conviction on a lot of charges are inversely proportional to the amount of money spent on legal counsel. If you've got a bunch of arrests but no convictions, they're gonna want to review that I'm sure.
     
  11. JOhnH

    JOhnH Touchdown! Greaser!

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    Thanks.
    That makes sense.
     
  12. DFH65

    DFH65 Pattern Altitude

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    Where is this stated?

    The medxpress form says in 18V
    "History of (1) any arrest(s) and/or conviction(s) involving driving while intoxicated by, while impaired by, or
    administrative action(s) involving an offense(s) which resulted in the denial, suspension, cancellation, or
    while under the influence of alcohol or a drug; or (2) history of any arrest(s), and/or conviction(s), and/or
    revocation of driving privileges or which resulted in attendance at an educational or a rehabilitation program."


    18W says
    "History of nontraffic
    conviction(s)
    (misdemeanors or felonies)."
     
  13. Juliet Hotel

    Juliet Hotel Line Up and Wait

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    Isn't the fact that it happens at all enough? A person gets arrested for passing a bad check. Turns out the bank screwed up and the person is completely innocent and charges are dropped. Why on gods green earth should that have to be any of the FAA's business?
     
  14. tawood

    tawood Pattern Altitude

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    I never said it was (the FAA's business).
     
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  15. flyingron

    flyingron Touchdown! Greaser!

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    No, never convicted...
     
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  16. Clip4

    Clip4 En-Route

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    Negative.

    18.w. History of nontraffic convictions. The applicant must report any other (nontraffic) convictions (e.g., assault, battery, public intoxication, robbery, etc.). The applicant must name the charge for which convicted and the date of the conviction(s), and copies of court documents (if available). (See Item 47, page 115).
     
  17. RJM62

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    I wonder if that's been changed recently. I also seem to remember them wanting all arrests reported, regardless of whether they led to convictions.

    Rich
     
  18. jbarrass

    jbarrass Line Up and Wait

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    Says a lot about the out-of-control bureaucracy that trespassing is considered a medical condition in the first place.
     
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  19. midlifeflyer

    midlifeflyer Final Approach

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    Nope, been this way for a long time. Traffic offenses which led to drivers license suspension, driving school diversion and the like are reportable whether or not convicted. Other offenses require conviction.
     
  20. Dr. O

    Dr. O Pattern Altitude

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    Why not ask your attorney instead of the peanut gallery here? I hope you realize that a fair chunk of the denizens on here have an axe to grind (on everything) and delusions that they are the only sane person posting here (me included :)
     
  21. Juliet Hotel

    Juliet Hotel Line Up and Wait

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    I have no delusions of being sane.
     
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  22. Kenny Phillips

    Kenny Phillips Cleared for Takeoff

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    As long as the trespassing charge wasn't because you were BASE jumping ...
     
  23. JOhnH

    JOhnH Touchdown! Greaser!

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    He said he had a lawyer, so I am sure they are or will be discussing this. He just wanted some outside opinions in the meantime.
    Or do you think nobody should be asking questions here that should be handled by a professional (like a plumber or electrician . . .). If that is the case, then 75% of the questions here should not be asked.
     
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  24. bbchien

    bbchien Touchdown! Greaser!

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    Actually, I have had a guy whose case I declined to work. He's a sociopath who came to FAA's attention with a trespassing charge. He has a long rap sheet.....

    "personality disorder, multiple acts"
    He has no trouble with multiple lies.
     
    Last edited: Nov 28, 2018
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  25. Salty

    Salty En-Route PoA Supporter

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    But trespassing is not the problem with that individual. The long rap sheet is.

    If your bad guy also has blonde hair, would you say that’s a medical condition the FAA should monitor?
     
  26. James331

    James331 Touchdown! Greaser!

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    What were you doing?



    Only time I had to draw on someone was when a few “trespassers” were trying to get into my house. You’re worried about a plea deal?
    Not sure what you were up to, but it could have been waaaaay worse.
     
  27. JOhnH

    JOhnH Touchdown! Greaser!

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    When I saw that you had replied to this thread, I thought "oh boy, we are finally going to get the definitive answer".

    And while you made a perfectly valid point, you didn't address the actual rule about having to report ALL arrests; even those without convictions.

    So my resolution is to just not get arrested.
     
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  28. lbfjrmd

    lbfjrmd Pre-takeoff checklist

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    waaaa!
     
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  29. JOhnH

    JOhnH Touchdown! Greaser!

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    You can call me a crybaby if that makes you feel better,
    I was merely trying to find a diplomatic way to ask Dr. Chien (who I greatly admire and respect above all others on this board) to answer the legal question. I guess I failed.

    @bbchien, if you took offense to my comment, I profusely apologize.
     
  30. RJM62

    RJM62 Touchdown! Greaser!

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    My impression was that Dr. Lou was the one pretending to be crying...

    Rich
     
  31. slacktide

    slacktide Line Up and Wait

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    Bad check nothin. This is a country where you can end up in jail for 4 months awaiting charges, merely for possessing cotton candy. (with intent to lick)

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/nati...ssessing-cotton-candy/?utm_term=.50a6a13da6ff
     
  32. DaleB

    DaleB En-Route

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  33. midlifeflyer

    midlifeflyer Final Approach

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    What actual rule is that?
     
  34. Rushie

    Rushie Pattern Altitude

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    This is copied directly from the FAA website, I embellished with colors.

    If I'm understanding the English language, it sure seems to say that if the arrest is not related to alcohol, drugs or driving in any way, then it does not fall under section "v". The modifiers "involving" and "which resulted in" do apply to the subject in each sentence v(1) and v(2). Therefore if you have an arrest for which those modifiers are not applicable, I don't see how section v can apply.

    So you look to section "w" which of course does not mention arrest, only conviction.

    Sure seems crystal clear to me. But perhaps the good doctors know of "case law" or "opinions" or some such that contradicts this plain English. Or maybe they know from experience that the FAA when processing your application doesn't actually comply with this strict interpretation of the English language, and ends up dinging people for not reporting arrests not related to drugs/alcohol/driving or resulting in convictions. I can certainly believe that and would take either of these doc's word for it.
    FAA Capture.JPG
     
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  35. JOhnH

    JOhnH Touchdown! Greaser!

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    Are you serious? Have you not been paying attention?

    The rule that says ALL arrests have to be reported. It is a very simple question.
     
  36. James331

    James331 Touchdown! Greaser!

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    I will agree that the any arrests is BS, especially with the current state of the “justice system”.

    If you’re not convicted it’s a mute point IMO.

    But sadly the FAA is a kangaroo court and not a real court with the burden of proof and all.
     
    Last edited: Nov 28, 2018
  37. midlifeflyer

    midlifeflyer Final Approach

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    I've been paying attention. I asked because there is no such rule. Someone else quoted the non-driving question on the medical app verbatim. Didn't you read it? Or do you avoid paying attention to things which don't fit your preconceived beliefs?

    Does this help?
    20DB62E4-303C-44C9-A85E-C409AFCF3423.jpeg
     
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  38. JOhnH

    JOhnH Touchdown! Greaser!

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    I expressed no preconceived beliefs. And I don't understand why you had to go passive/aggressive against me (to which I never respond well).

    "Experts" on both sides have been expressing opinions. Some that I truly respect seemed to express opinions that surprised me. Federal regulations never seem to be "cut and dried". You may read something somewhere that "seems" that way, but then elsewhere you might find an opinion that goes the other way.

    So why did you choose me to attack when I was asking questions? Why not attack someone that took a position that you disagreed with? Or better yet, why attack anyone at all? Why not just state your opinion, with justification.

    edit to add: You asked "What rule is that" then you proceeded to quote the rule. That is what ****ed me off. You knew damn well what rule I was referring to.
     
  39. midlifeflyer

    midlifeflyer Final Approach

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    I'm sorry. Your post sounded like you were sure there was a rule that "ALL arrests had to be reported," so I asked what rule you were talking about. I apparently misunderstood what you wrote.
     
    Last edited: Nov 29, 2018
  40. PeterNSteinmetz

    PeterNSteinmetz Pre-takeoff checklist

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    You don’t have to report an arrest if you are not convicted and it does not (corrected) involve drugs, alcohol, or driving. Wording of the question on the form appears very clear on this, and I don’t believe any of the good doctors here have opined otherwise.
     
    Last edited: Nov 29, 2018