Trent Palmer (YouTuber Bush Pilot Channel) Suspended By FAA

Discussion in 'Flight Following' started by Bonchie, Apr 29, 2022.

  1. Ricky Bob

    Ricky Bob Filing Flight Plan

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    Does anybody know which house was the house in question? 500' AGL is about 1.7nm from the threshold at a 3 degree slope. Assuming he didn't do a long straight in, I can see how it is plausible that he flew over a house less than 500' while on a stabilized approach. There is no requirement to maintain 500' from anything if for takeoff or landing, so if he was less than 500', it's irrelevant. But that dead horse has been beaten to death. Guess my point is that, from that picture, it seems plausible that he flew over/near a house (<500') while on a stable, normal approach and not "buzzing" anything. I'm too lazy, but I'd be curious to distance measure each runway threshold from that strip to each house in the area. Any house within 1.7nm could theoretically be flown over under 500' while making a stabilized approach to that strip.
     
  2. bflynn

    bflynn Final Approach

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    no, the FAA did not enter the video because they were not allowed to. Any video must be an original and this was not. But witnesses were allowed to testify about the video.

    Plus, he just did it again. In his video 7 days ago, the day before the FAA video, he lands on a dirt road, but there was a structure (cattle trough) right near his “threshold”. Before landing, he made a low approach to inspect the road. After the low approach, he circled around and landed. So he is guilty of it again, right?
     
    Last edited: May 7, 2022
  3. Brad Z

    Brad Z Final Approach

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    Either way, the fact that he was less than 500 feet of a person, vessel, vehicle, or structure is not in dispute. He admitted that he was, but it was for the purpose of landing.

    As to the other video, I didn’t watch it so I have no opinion.
     
  4. bflynn

    bflynn Final Approach

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    14 CFR 91.119 begins with: "Except when necessary for takeoff or landing…”

    when landing off airport at someplace new, is an inspection pass necessary for takeoff or landing? ?
     
  5. LesGawlik

    LesGawlik Line Up and Wait

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    And that's the mistake the ALJ made. That section was read, "Except when making a necessary landing, no person..."

    Since this landing was not necessary, in the eyes of the FAA, he was guilty.
     
  6. Silvaire

    Silvaire En-Route

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    I can't help from thinking... Have you ever been to traffic court and this one guy shows up in a suit with a briefcase pretending he's a lawyer and acting like he knows the law better than the judge and maybe he mouths off a little and eventually the bailiff takes him into the back room. This thing should have been settled quietly a long time ago but alas, that ain't gonna happen now. The youtube social media monster has been unleashed and actual due process is well...TLDR.
     
  7. Lindberg

    Lindberg Final Approach

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    The relevant question is, in this case, was flying within 500' of a person, vessel, or structure necessary for landing?
     
  8. bflynn

    bflynn Final Approach

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    a question neither of us know the answer to. However, in all that’s been said, this is the first time I’ve heard that question asked. Was it something you read elsewhere or did you think of it?
     
  9. X3 Skier

    X3 Skier En-Route PoA Supporter

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    The case have been dismissed thanks to 6 PC’ s exposé.



    Cheers
     
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  10. Brad Z

    Brad Z Final Approach

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    I suspect the real question was whether Trent's "inspection pass" was really an "inspection pass." See my previous post regarding all the things in the video Trent didn't mention.
     
  11. bflynn

    bflynn Final Approach

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    Other than just flat out calling him a liar, I don't see how it can be determined one way or another. He says it was, so what can be shown to say it wasn't? I'm sure he wasn't just flying low somewhere for the heck of it.
     
  12. Salty

    Salty Touchdown! Greaser!

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    Number of passes made. Proximity of pass to the other house closer than necessary, etc.
     
  13. Palmpilot

    Palmpilot Touchdown! Greaser! PoA Supporter

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    My understanding is that it's the job of the ALJ to assess the credibility of a witness's testimony. Whether ALJs explain why they didn't find a witness's testimony credible, I don't know.
     
    Last edited: May 9, 2022
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  14. texasclouds

    texasclouds Pattern Altitude

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    I see a no-knock warrant in his future…
     
  15. Direct C51

    Direct C51 Pre-takeoff checklist

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    Huh? What makes you so convinced that he wasn't just buzzing his buddy's house, then made up this story when he got called out? This is just as likely as his story that he couldn't land his kitfox on a well defined 600' dirt strip because he couldn't determine a touchdown point or whatever.
     
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  16. Ricky Bob

    Ricky Bob Filing Flight Plan

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    Not landing at that strip does seem odd for sure. But I don't understand why he would buzz some random lady's house? That makes no sense to me. If I were in the business of illegally buzzing houses, I'd buzz my own, my friend's, etc. Not some random person's house.
     
  17. Daleandee

    Daleandee En-Route

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    At 1:03 in the video Bryan talks about Emerson Lake and I was waiting for the "Emerson Lake & Palmer" punchline that never came ... o_O
     
  18. Salty

    Salty Touchdown! Greaser!

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    Another factor could be speed. If his "inspection" pass was at high speed, that would be pretty suspect.
     
  19. Arm3

    Arm3 Pre-takeoff checklist

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    I thought he made it at 1:04.
     
  20. Daleandee

    Daleandee En-Route

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    Yeah ... guess I was looking for something a bit more obvious. Perhaps the subtility of it was the genius of it.
     
  21. Arm3

    Arm3 Pre-takeoff checklist

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    It’s nuanced, like a Borat “not” joke.

     
  22. TCABM

    TCABM En-Route

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    It was.
     
  23. BrianNC

    BrianNC En-Route

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    Same here. :D
     
  24. BrianNC

    BrianNC En-Route

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    Ah you're right. Missed that. lol.
     
  25. Brad Z

    Brad Z Final Approach

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    Go back and watch the video. He never clearly states that he intended to land on that flight. He insinuates and leads us to believe that he was planning to land on that flight, but never states that as fact. Maybe he was doing an inspection flight for a landing sometime in the future. We don't know. We haven't heard the FAA's side so I don't think it's beyond reasonable doubt to believe the ALJ questioned Palmer's account of the events.
     
  26. Silvaire

    Silvaire En-Route

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    Yea it seems to me that if, after the complaint, he had just gone to the FAA with hat in hand and earnestly listened to what they had to say then humbly admitted that he had gotten closer than 500 ft and it won't happen again this probably would have all quietly been settled long ago. But to instead show up with an elaborate defense case drawn up citing the FAA Advisory book on off airport operations and pursue a , let's just call it a bit absurd, assertion that they are setting a dangerous precedent that will make it illegal to do a missed approach or go around and cause the unnecessary endangerment of pilots most likely soured the entire relationship going forward. And now, to have posted a couple of youtube videos where he actually makes personal attacks against both the FAA judge and attorney as well as the complainant (while appealing the decision and still enjoying his privileges) just seems like a very untactful course of action on his part. Not good decision making if you ask me.
     
  27. LesGawlik

    LesGawlik Line Up and Wait

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    I think it depends on whether you want to live on your knees or your feet.
     
  28. nauga

    nauga Administrator Management Council Member PoA Technical Administrator

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    It also depends on whether or not you buy into argumentum ad absurdum. And it's *die* on you feet, AKA 'pick your battles, bro.'

    Nauga,
    whose jury is still out
     
  29. Cluemeister

    Cluemeister Line Up and Wait PoA Supporter

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    Hearing this story, if any of you receive a call from the local FSDO saying they want to talk to you, how many of you will:

    A. Set up the appointment, go in without an attorney.

    B. Contact an attorney, and make sure that attorney is with you at all proceedings.
     
  30. Bob Noel

    Bob Noel Touchdown! Greaser!

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    I'm with C. above....
     
  31. Daleandee

    Daleandee En-Route

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    Yulp! Make them write it down.

    FWIW: I had a manager that liked to come down the hall and have our hot topic, private conversations outside the building. He would then make certain promises (that I suspected wouldn't be kept) or recommendations for me to follow that could/would be deemed questionable.

    To protect myself I would follow up with an email back to him referencing our recent conversation and the points made and what was requested and agreed upon. If it helps to understand what was happening ... he still works there but his management position was taken from him for the always obvious reason (needs to spend more time with his family). :rolleyes:
     
  32. Silvaire

    Silvaire En-Route

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    Been a pilot for over fifty years, A&P/IA 45 years so plenty of interfaces with the FAA. They are the ones that gave you your certificates to begin with so I don't get this enemy Gestapo view of them. Even if Palmer's case is an example of extreme cronyism he should have let the appeal process conclude before going on a social media rant. Does he think it is now going to be decided on Instagram?
     
  33. Brad Z

    Brad Z Final Approach

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    I went with "D", and submitted my statement to the ATC supervisor on duty to be included with the report going from the Tracon to the FSDO, so the inspector already had my side of the story and called to let me know no further action would take place on his part.
     
  34. Daleandee

    Daleandee En-Route

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    Agreed!

    I have no idea if he's guilty or not but I do know people and those in power do not like to be loudly challenged in the public square. I know the government will try and show a strict adherence to their rules and regs but they have a lot at stake if they allow social media to influence the outcome. I don't see them allowing that and in fact doing all they can to show that they are impartial by pushing back against the social media defense.

    He's already poisoned the well so to speak ...
     
  35. Brad Z

    Brad Z Final Approach

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    I sort of attribute it to YouTubers gonna YouTube...

    But I'm most surprised his attorney went online talking about the case on public web forums.
     
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  36. Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe

    Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe Touchdown! Greaser! PoA Supporter

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    As opposed to having a news conference and inviting all the local TV stations like the (relatively) big name attorneys?


    (hold your nose)
     
    Last edited: May 9, 2022
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  37. Silvaire

    Silvaire En-Route

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    Another aspect of this is the base story: This dude has a landing strip on his property so he figures his buddy can land his airplane there. Problem is, in order to do that you need to fly low over a neighbors house and turns out the neighbor don't like that. So now you get this Hatfield McCoy thing going on and the FAA gets stuck in the middle of it.

    There needs to be diplomacy in these situations.
     
  38. Palmpilot

    Palmpilot Touchdown! Greaser! PoA Supporter

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    Grovelling apologies have been working for me for thirty years!
     
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  39. Palmpilot

    Palmpilot Touchdown! Greaser! PoA Supporter

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    Regarding the trolling accusation, is it that hard to believe that someone might cheat on a test, get caught, come up with a rationalization for it, and have unrealistic expectations about what the FAA's response will be as a result of not reading or understanding the relevant regulation?

    I think people's troll detectors are turning up too many false positives.
     
  40. Lindberg

    Lindberg Final Approach

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    No, he thinks he's going to get lots of new followers and "clout," which is at least making lemonade from the suspension.