Training plans

[TexasAviation]

Well, the time is finally here. I'm going to have my house paid off in about two months (thank you, Dave Ramsey!), which means I no longer have any excuse not to get my private pilot's license. I plan on starting training this spring.



I'm 33 years old with a wife and three kids, and I'm self-employed ... so a plane will make it easier to visit my customers in person while letting my business pay for the gas and rental fees for those trips.

I've also been obsessively reading and thinking about flying for the past few weeks as I realize it's getting closer. My wife is sick of hearing LiveATC.net all the time.

And I've got a couple of questions:

1. What should I look for in a CFI? I live in the small town of Commerce, Texas, about 60 miles northeast of Dallas. I'd prefer someone very local because it would be more convenient, but I could also drive to the Dallas area if the instruction there would be better. Any tips for what to look for and what to avoid in a CFI?

2. How much should I budget for it? In other words, how many hours a month do you think would be ideal? I'm guesstimating $2,000/month for three to four months would cover it, which would equate to (very roughly) 15-20 hours/month. But I'm open to spending more to do it faster or spending less to do it slower. The most important thing to me is becoming the best and safest pilot I can be, not necessarily doing it in the fastest time.

 

[poadeleted20]

1. What should I look for in a CFI? I live in the small town of Commerce, Texas, about 60 miles northeast of Dallas. I'd prefer someone very local because it would be more convenient, but I could also drive to the Dallas area if the instruction there would be better. Any tips for what to look for and what to avoid in a CFI?

Assuming you don't have your own plane, first thing is a training provider who can also provide the airplane. After that, you want someone who is professional, dedicated, experienced, and interested in teaching, not just building hours. Look for someone whose schedule fits yours, too. Interview that person as though you were hiring him/her to work for you, because that's exactly what you're doing. Check on facilities and equipment -- you want to see a good training environment and a well-maintained airplane, preferable of similar type to what you want to fly after you complete your PP training.

2. How much should I budget for it?

About $10K should cover everything.

In other words, how many hours a month do you think would be ideal?

Not the same question, but if you're working full time, you should be scheduling 3 flights a week and figuring to actually fly at least twice a week (you'll lose a flight every week or two due to personal schedule changes, aircraft maintenance, weather, etc).

 

[asgcpa]

The national average I think is 62 hours or so. Minimums are 40 hours, including 10 solo. Costs vary by location- here north of Chicago instructor and aircraft is about $65 more per hour for basically same plane than in Jefferson City Mo where my son is learning. A smaller place may be more cost effective if you find a good CFI and decent equipment.

 

[TexasAviation]

Thanks for the feedback.

Maybe I should rephrase my question about budgeting. I'm wondering about the number of hours you would recommend flying every month during training, not the total requirements and what it's going to cost overall. I already know that pain

You say to schedule three flights per week and expect to actually take two of them ... but I don't know how many hours per flight that translates to.

Put another way, if the total is estimated at $10k, would you recommend planning:

- $5k x 2 months
- $3.3k x 3 months
- $2k x 5 months
- $1k x 10 months

I'm wondering what pace you think I should plan for, basically. Or is that just a matter of personal preference?

 

[Jhernandez04]

Thanks for the feedback.

Maybe I should rephrase my question about budgeting. I'm wondering about the number of hours you would recommend flying every month during training, not the total requirements and what it's going to cost overall. I already know that pain

You say to schedule three flights per week and expect to actually take two of them ... but I don't know how many hours per flight that translates to.

Put another way, if the total is estimated at $10k, would you recommend planning:

- $5k x 2 months
- $3.3k x 3 months
- $2k x 5 months
- $1k x 10 months

I'm wondering what pace you think I should plan for, basically. Or is that just a matter of personal preference?

I think the 3 or 5 month plan is best. YMMV

 

[AggieMike88]

Amount of time needed is the big variable. And it's not always easy to do a good DR budget for this. Where on paper it's simple to say $2500/mo x 4 months, something in life, weather, and instructor or airplane availability hops up and gets in the way.....

But if you can fund 60% of the cost now! then get started and refill the money bucket as you go.

You are not that far from Greenville Majors airport. There is a strong flying club there with some good instructors. I would advise checking with them to get your PPL done and then you are part of a good group offering low cost rental after you have your certificate..

Finally, even at the young age of 33, double check there are no show stoppers from a medical perspective. It is always better to be honest now before you spend money on rentals and get the medical stuff squared away.

Keep us informed of your progress!

 

[poadeleted20]

Thanks for the feedback.

Maybe I should rephrase my question about budgeting. I'm wondering about the number of hours you would recommend flying every month during training, not the total requirements and what it's going to cost overall. I already know that pain

You say to schedule three flights per week and expect to actually take two of them ... but I don't know how many hours per flight that translates to.

For the initial stages of training, it's about 1-1.5 hours in the airplane for each training flight, plus some ground training time before and debriefing time after each flight. Figure a 2.5-hour block of time for each lesson.

Put another way, if the total is estimated at $10k, would you recommend planning:

- $5k x 2 months
- $3.3k x 3 months
- $2k x 5 months
- $1k x 10 months

That depends on how much time you devote to the project, and that's a function of both personal preference and your available time. But at that 2-3 lessons/week initial training rate and typical prices for aircraft and instructors, you're talking about maybe $2500/month for four months to get it done.

 

[TexasAviation]

Thanks, Mike! Yeah, I understand the Majors Flying Club in Greenville rents a C150 for $59/hour wet. That's the first place I'm going to look for my CFI.

I think I'm going to budget $2k/month and just fly until I run out of that month's allotment.

And that's great advice about getting the medical first. No sense in spending any money at all if I can't pass the medical, so I'll try to get that scheduled ASAP.

 

[AggieMike88]

Continued advice on the medical...

Don't schedule with the AME until you know with 100% certainty you will pass. The AME's office isn't the place for the surprise finding that stuffs you into deferral or denial hell.

Set up a thorough physical with your primary doctor, advising him that a future step is getting your flight medical. Including blood draws for fasting blood sugar, cholesterol, and other usual stuff. If needed, bring him a copy of the 8500-8 form and the AME guide. It is with this visit that you need to find any items that the FAA gets cranky about. If the primary doc says all is good, proceed to the AME. If the primary finds something of concern, deal with that before going official with the AME.

Once you get this far, respond back to me or this thread and we will provide counsel on how to use MedExpress and deal with the AME so you get the certificate immediately, or know what needs to be done prior letting your exam go "live" and jeopardize future sport pilot privileges.

Another good source of help is WaltM at the Rocking M Airport (T14) just a bit south of Majors. He knows many of the local notables and can hook you up with good people. http://www.airnav.com/airport/T14

Finally, Greenville Majors is an easy flight from Denton. So once I finish up my IFR training by month's end, perhaps we could link up and do some flying.

 

[TexasAviation]

My family doctor is an AME according to this: www.faa.gov/pilots/amelocator/

I haven't been to see him in six or eight years, though. What's the advantage of doing the unofficial physical first?

 

[SCCutler]

My family doctor is an AME according to this: www.faa.gov/pilots/amelocator/

I haven't been to see him in six or eight years, though. What's the advantage of doing the unofficial physical first?

Learning what issues you may have and dealing with them prior to having a deferral or outright denial which might be with you for a long time.

 

[AggieMike88]

My family doctor is an AME according to this: www.faa.gov/pilots/amelocator/

I haven't been to see him in six or eight years, though. What's the advantage of doing the unofficial physical first?

Learning what issues you may have and dealing with them prior to having a deferral or outright denial which might be with you for a long time.

What Spike said. There are many health issues that either require more documentation or will result in a denial if not done correctly. It is way better for the primary doc to bring those to light than the AME.

Tell your doc that you first want the general thorough health screening before he switches to AME mode. If as your regular doc, he says there are no issues and he can put on his AME hat and issue your cert right now, great. But if there is something found, then ask the doc to remain a regular doc and get these issues resolved. Once they are and he says he will issue without deferral, then you can ask him to don his AME hat and do the exam.

The big thing is to not go into ANY AME's office unless you know for certain you are walking out with the certificate. Too many others have just bombed in unknowing and the AME is forced to stuff them into deferral or denial hell. Wasn't the doc's fault, but the airman's, who then pushes blame on the doc.

Keep us in the loop. There is a top level AME many of us know who will help should a major health issue be uncovered. And many of us have successfully dealt with having major issues and getting our cents. So there is some good knowledge and wisdom here if you wish to avail yourself of it.

 

[asgcpa]

Learning what issues you may have and dealing with them prior to having a deferral or outright denial which might be with you for a long time.

Very good advice. See your doc as a doc first and not as an AME.

 

[mtuomi]

I think the most effective way is to do it as quickly as possible. 3-4 weeks and its done. It is hard work and not very enjoyable, but that way you dont waste time each lesson relearning something you forgot since the last time.

 

[VictorValencia]

I am fairly early in my training process and based on my experience
so far 2x-3x per week is fairly reasonable. I would not recommend
cramming a week's worth of flying into a single ____long____ lesson.
I train out of a very busy airport and 1.5 hours of flying at a time
is enough for me. It can get a bit exhausting at times since your
mind is working a mile a minute and if you throw in a warm day
you can get pretty tired. Definitely break it up into a bit each day.

Also, there is much more to it than just making the airplane do
what you want it to. There's airspace, radio, FARs etc and some
of that you can learn ahead of time and some of it just takes
practice in the air. There's probably some minimum amount of
time it will take and my guess is its more than 2 mos and less
than a year

Victor

 

[Blackhawk]

So far the advice has been very good.
One of the most important things you can do is find a good flight instructor. Fortunately in the Dallas area this should not be an issue.
Varied experience such as military and airline flying can help an instructor, but military and airline flying is VERY different from teaching piston general aviation. Just as important is GA teaching experience.

Make sure the instructor uses a syllabus and a training program of some sort. This will greatly help the training process as you will know what to expect each lesson. It also helps if, for some reason you can not finish with your instructor. If I inherit a student who has not used a training program and does not have his instruction properly logged I spend a good deal of time going over things that have already been taught. If I get a student who says "I just finished Acme Flying lesson 22", they show up with the Acme products and training properly logged I have a better idea where to start and the student does not pay for a bunch of training they already received. Even if I've never seen the Acme Flying program they are mostly the same and it will be easier for me to figure out how to proceed.

Make sure your instructors available times coincide with yours.
Don't discount all young CFI's. I've seen some very good ones who were professional. But get an idea of the instructor's time line if they are going to move on to "greener pastures".

If a CFI has a side flying job find out what it entails. Too many CFI's who fly for someone on the side will just leave students in the lurch.

Make sure the CFI includes ground and that you pay for it. You can save quite a bit of time and money doing self study (that syllabus I mentioned), but while that may help you pass the written it won't give you the application and correlation knowledge you need to be a safe pilot. As an example, after going over the book knowledge about systems the student and I will go to the maintenance hanger and look at engines and anything else available. Not looking to get the student to build an engine, but understand its operation.

http://www.aopa.org/letsgoflying/ready/choose/howto.html

http://www.pilottricks.com/how-to-choose-a-flight-instructor/

 

[bobmrg]

My family doctor is an AME according to this: www.faa.gov/pilots/amelocator/

I haven't been to see him in six or eight years, though. What's the advantage of doing the unofficial physical first?

Make sure that you and the doc are on the same page. You do not want him/her to begin the application process, because once it is begun it can't be stopped. Have a firm understanding that you are coming in for a non-aviation exam that just happens to mirror the aviation physical. I used to have a pet AME who gave me two physicals in one visit...one for the FAA, one for me. Unfortunately, he is no longer with us.

Bob Gardner

 

[Non Compos Mentis]

I'd prefer someone very local because it would be more convenient, but I could also drive to the Dallas area if the instruction there would be better. Any tips for what to look for and what to avoid in a CFI?

I'm fortunate to have a great FBO about 15 minutes from my house. Easy to wander over to the airport and fly on the spur of the moment.

Highly recommended to stay close to home!

This FBO is a great social hub for local pilots. Sure beats fighting traffic, hoping to get to your lesson on time.

 

[TexasAviation]

Thanks for the advice! My medical is done, and my knowledge test is scheduled for Tuesday morning. I'll be doing practice tests all weekend

Next steps: Join the local flying club and starting my flight training in May. Woo hoo!

 

[muleywannabe]

Thanks for the advice! My medical is done, and my knowledge test is scheduled for Tuesday morning. I'll be doing practice tests all weekend

Next steps: Join the local flying club and starting my flight training in May. Woo hoo!

already taking the test? thats awesome. I am working on that info now. I need to get my medical stuff done and then rock on. Good luck!

 

[Bonchie]

Good luck.

Costs can vary wildly of course.

I'm paying $135 an hour for dual instruction in a wet PA-28-140. $105 an hour for solo work. Those are really good rates from what I've found.

My instructor is retired military (C-17 initial test pilot, T-38 instructor, etc.) and I feel really comfortable with the fact that he's there to teach and couldn't care less about hour building at this point.

I'm putting in 3 flights a week. The more you go, the more you retain, and (generally) the less hours it takes to feel ready for your check-ride. Some pick up things faster then others. I was flying patterns and landing my second lesson but I had a lot of basic knowledge from simulators on what to do. Others may take three to four lessons before they feel comfortable landing themselves.

I have a goal of 45 hours and my instructor feels I'm picking up things fast enough to meet that and am pretty ahead of where most are at this point. At that number I'll of spent about $6,500 (that includes all materials, ground school as well, plus $300 for the check-ride). BUT I'm not married to the number. If it takes longer, it takes longer. Whatever is safest is best but I don't think it hurts to have a goal and a schedule and stick to it.

My best advice in my limited experience is to fly often and fly cheap planes. You don't need to fly a 172 unless you are a big guy. Look for schools that rent 150/152s or Piper 140s. You can literally shave thousands off the end cost simply by flying cheaper planes.

 

[kenjr]

...plan on 9-10K and you won't be disappointed. You'll need a headset, some books and various other gear...the $$ amounts depends on how much you have/like to spend. You can go cheap or spend like crazy.

Just go find some schools and start talking to CFI's. Tell them your plans, maybe go do an intro flight when you zero in on one and see how you vibe. You want to fly with someone who makes you feel confident but keeps you on your toes and of course your personalities mesh a little as well. For example, some people like CFI's who chatter all the time (not me) and others like CFI's who when they are talking you know it's something you better be listening to (that's me).

You also want to keep in mind that putting in a 2 hours worth of flying time is equal to about 4-5 hours out of your day. By the time you travel to/from, pre-flight the plane, hit the pumps after a lesson, tie it down, shoot the breeze in the shop before or after...

I would say that on average most people who accelerate it will get it done faster. I flew around 2 hours a week and it took me 8 months to get mine. I went to the checkride with 64 hours but I bought my own plane after about 5 hours into my PPL so I did a few extra XC's and a little more pattern work once I got signed off to solo than I 'needed'.

Good luck!