Tomahawk for sale. $9k

Rigged4Flight said:
My personal view on deals like this: don't do it if you have any doubts.


Right now I'm looking at this as a training event. I'm going through the motions until/unless I get a red light from Tom, the owner, my gut or my wife. And I'm going to take a day to sleep/think about it. I've heard many times that you shouldn't buy an interim plane. And to be honest, this plane has interim written all over it. But it also appears to be very inexpensive and tailor made for the training I will need ...so I'm still thinking about it. Seriously. :wink2:

I know barnstormer/trade-a-plane prices are always inflated, but I did some comparing here: http://www.barnstormers.com/Piper, PA-38+Tomahawk Classifieds.html
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Yea, I did the same thing. The other issue, is I am 225 lbs, and my wife is 180. Just the two of us are over the 400 lbs max usable weight (as I read online).

I think I am going to pass, however if you do it, good luck and keep us posted.
 
jesse said:
Since Ryan is a flight instructor I doubt it's a toy as much as it's an airplane to instruct in.
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According to the book of Steingar, one should go into debt for a business tool if it is beneficial in the long run. But one should never go into debt for a toy.

Thank you for the clarification.
 
Mafoo said:
Yea, I did the same thing. The other issue, is I am 225 lbs, and my wife is 180. Just the two of us are over the 400 lbs max usable weight (as I read online).

I think I am going to pass, however if you do it, good luck and keep us posted.
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I can't blame you - and I may do the same. The best thing about this deal is the price, which probably isn't a great place to start. But I am definitely still thinking hard about it.

And I'll keep you in mind if I find anything closer to home. :yesnod:
 
The correct name is "TRAUMA-ROCK."
Kidding.
I flew one and it was okay. Not as stable as the Cessna 150.
 
There are two major stumbling blocks to this aircraft.

the A/C is registered to a LLC co. the LLC is defunk, the owner is dead and the widow has no authority to sell the LLC's assets.

that can be fixed. but it will take time &$

the registration has expired. the widow paid the registration fee in 2010, but never received the new registration. now a whole year has passed.
 
Tom-D said:
There are two major stumbling blocks to this aircraft.

the A/C is registered to a LLC co. the LLC is defunk, the owner is dead and the widow has no authority to sell the LLC's assets.

that can be fixed. but it will take time &$

the registration has expired. the widow paid the registration fee in 2010, but never received the new registration. now a whole year has passed.
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So far I'm hearing "pan-pan, pan-pan, pan-pan" but not "mayday, mayday, mayday". :wink2:
 
Tom-D said:
There are two major stumbling blocks to this aircraft.

the A/C is registered to a LLC co. the LLC is defunk, the owner is dead and the widow has no authority to sell the LLC's assets.

that can be fixed. but it will take time &$

the registration has expired. the widow paid the registration fee in 2010, but never received the new registration. now a whole year has passed.
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I'm more familiar with C corporations, but I did not think an LLC would become defunk simply because the (presumably only) owner dies. I would think community property law would make the widow the new owner.
 
Jim Logajan said:
I'm more familiar with C corporations, but I did not think an LLC would become defunk simply because the (presumably only) owner dies. I would think community property law would make the widow the new owner.
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It typically doesn't die. It transfers to the owner's estate. Depends on what the widow did in Probate, and whether she was listed as an alternate owner of the shares of the Corporation -- in most States.

Probably going to need a Probate Attorney that knows the State laws in the State the LLC was incorporated in to straighten it all out.
 
denverpilot said:
It typically doesn't die. It transfers to the owner's estate. Depends on what the widow did in Probate, and whether she was listed as an alternate owner of the shares of the Corporation -- in most States.

Probably going to need a Probate Attorney that knows the State laws in the State the LLC was incorporated in to straighten it all out.
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Well the good news is that all sounds like the kind of stuff the seller needs to deal with. I would not except the buyer to be responsable for making sure the plane is sellable (outside of verifying that it can be bought).
 
denverpilot said:
It typically doesn't die. It transfers to the owner's estate. Depends on what the widow did in Probate, and whether she was listed as an alternate owner of the shares of the Corporation -- in most States.

Probably going to need a Probate Attorney that knows the State laws in the State the LLC was incorporated in to straighten it all out.
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In Wa. the LLC is re-newed year by year, if not re-newed it simply disappears from records.

Wa is not a probate state, we are a community property state.

these problems are fixable, but don't count on that being done quickly.
 
Tom-D said:
In Wa. the LLC is re-newed year by year, if not re-newed it simply disappears from records.

Wa is not a probate state, we are a community property state.

these problems are fixable, but don't count on that being done quickly.
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I have 14 months before I need it. :yesnod:
 
Tom-D said:
In Wa. the LLC is re-newed year by year, if not re-newed it simply disappears from records.

Wa is not a probate state, we are a community property state.

these problems are fixable, but don't count on that being done quickly.
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Well according to Washington State corporation database, "TOMAHAWKS BLUE LIGHT SPECIAL LLC CO." hasn't disappeared from the records and is an active and perpetual LLC through at least the end of this month:

http://www.sos.wa.gov/corps/search_...ia=all&name_type=contains&name=tomahawks&ubi=
 
Jim Logajan said:
Well according to Washington State corporation database, "TOMAHAWKS BLUE LIGHT SPECIAL LLC CO." hasn't disappeared from the records and is an active and perpetual LLC through at least the end of this month:

http://www.sos.wa.gov/corps/search_...ia=all&name_type=contains&name=tomahawks&ubi=
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My old LLC is still in data base too, doesn't make it usable.

when the only name on the LLC's records is dead, who can sell the assets?

The widow must prove to the FAA she inherited, that rite. To do that she must take her marriage license, his death certificate, and prove there was no divorce or will changing the inheritance.
 
Tom-D said:
My old LLC is still in data base too, doesn't make it usable.

when the only name on the LLC's records is dead, who can sell the assets?

The widow must prove to the FAA she inherited, that rite. To do that she must take her marriage license, his death certificate, and prove there was no divorce or will changing the inheritance.
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Having both incorporated and later dissolve a California C corporation, I'm always interested in how I would resolve these things if left to my resources. The outline seems to be this (I'm missing points and details since I spent all of 15 minutes research on this):

The first step would appear to be for the widow to assume ownership or management of the LLC, which involves paperwork with the state of Washington.

According to this FAA document (http://www.faa.gov/licenses_certificates/aircraft_certification/aircraft_registry/media/LLCINFO.pdf) the second step is for the LLC's management to inform the FAA of that management change: "If the management of the L.L.C. changes at a later date (e.g., originally managed by the members, but now by a manager), the Registry must receive written notice of the change. This may be submitted in the
form of a written statement, a copy of minutes of a meeting, an amended operating agreement, etc. The submitted document must explain any changes or additions made and give the effective date of those changes or additions."

Third step appears to be for the new manager to sell or transfer ownership of the airplane to either the widow or a prospective buyer. Then send the bill of sale with the aircraft registration form showing the new owner to the FAA. (Side issue is the triggering of a taxable event with the IRS and WA state.)

Sorry for the thread drift....
 
Instead of guessing, hire a Probate Attorney and follow instructions for your Will, etc.

Karen's dad was one. Some of the stories he shared of kids and spouses fighting over things after someone died (names removed of course) were eye-popping.

My favorite was the sibling who was in prison for life and the siblings who tried to take away his inheritance saying he couldn't spend it anyway. Such love and family devotion! ;)

He was also well known as a Tax expert in that particular niche. The taxman cometh at death. Planning required.
 
denverpilot said:
Instead of guessing, hire a Probate Attorney and follow instructions for your Will, etc.
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the sale of the aircraft is a new issue with the family, so the family lawyer that set it all up, is now taking care of it.

Courts and lawyers being what they are, it will simply require a little time to iron out the wrinkles.
 
Tom-D said:
My old LLC is still in data base too, doesn't make it usable.

when the only name on the LLC's records is dead, who can sell the assets?

The widow must prove to the FAA she inherited, that rite. To do that she must take her marriage license, his death certificate, and prove there was no divorce or will changing the inheritance.
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I bought my plane from a widow, all she had to do was send a notarized letter to the FAA, forget the exact details but it was easy enough.
 
Skylane81E said:
I bought my plane from a widow, all she had to do was send a notarized letter to the FAA, forget the exact details but it was easy enough.
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It should be if you are not in a hurry.
 
Yep, mine took bout three weeks, but that was when the registration folks didn't have a backlog like they do now
 
Skylane81E said:
Yep, mine took bout three weeks, but that was when the registration folks didn't have a backlog like they do now
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Your what? letter from the court saying you were the legal owner and able to sell it ?
 
Aaaaand we're done!

Tom can post the details much better that I would. The pictures posted were apparently taken in a much happier time of this aircraft's life.
 
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Rigged4Flight said:
Aaaaand we're done!

Tom can post the details much better that I would. The pictures posted were apparently taken in a much happier time of this aircraft's life.
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Another hangar rot destroyed bird? Sad. Happens too much these days.
 
denverpilot said:
Another hangar rot destroyed bird? Sad. Happens too much these days.
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Yeah. More like another flightline rot destroyed bird. Not sure when this one last saw the inside of a hangar.

I wouldn't have bought it without a pre-purchase inspection anyway, but it was nice to have Tom right here at PoA work this in to his schedule so quickly.

If it had turned out to need just a moderate amount of work to get it ready to fly this could have turned out to be a great trainer for me, and a fairly easy-to-sell aircraft down the road when I want to transition to something more appropriate for the wife and I. But I wasn't emotionally invested, and it all worked out very well from my perspective.
 
I really don't want to comment on the condition of this aircraft in public format, I really feel sorry for the family left to deal with a bunch of broken dreams of their father.

So if they can dump this on a dreamer, I don't blame them.
 
Tom-D said:
I really don't want to comment on the condition of this aircraft in public format, I really feel sorry for the family left to deal with a bunch of broken dreams of their father.

So if they can dump this on a dreamer, I don't blame them.
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It sold. and is being exported as parts.
 
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