Toe Brake Depressed on Landing

EdFred said:
Two of the local DPEs agree(d) with me. In the PA28 and PA24 if you keep full rudder deflection in when the nose wheel touches you are going off the runway in a hurry. Done a few flight reviews with low-timers in their Pipers where I had to save us from going off the runway because of this. The feet come off the pedals just before touching down, or pretty much simultaneously when the upwind wheel touches. But the feet are off the pedals for less than a second. Once the nose wheel is down, feet back on the pedals. Either way, no chance of flat spotting on touchdown.
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All that sounds good, but...

...6,700 hours over 35+ years, including a bunch of Pipers, and I've never lifted my feet off the rudders, nor swerved off the runway*, nor flat spotted a tire.

So while it may be a useful technique, it's hardly a required technique.

But if it works for you and your students , great!


* My one major off runway excursion was in a Citabria where I was a little late correcting my student's swerves. Opa Locka West if anyone remembers that. No damage done, just a bunch of berry stains on the belly. Oh, and the whole "lifting feet off the rudders"? Probably ill advised in a tail dragger. :eek:
 
FastEddieB said:
All that sounds good, but...

...6,700 hours over 35+ years, including a bunch of Pipers, and I've never lifted my feet off the rudders, nor swerved off the runway*, nor flat spotted a tire.

So while it may be a useful technique, it's hardly a required technique.

But if it works for you and your students , great!


* My one major off runway excursion was in a Citabria where I was a little late correcting my student's swerves. Opa Locka West if anyone remembers that. No damage done, just a bunch of berry stains on the belly. Oh, and the whole "lifting feet off the rudders"? Probably ill advised in a tail dragger. :eek:
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Not many taildraggers with nosewheel steering. ;)
 
60 feet is a pretty wide runway. My home base is 40.

Early in my training, I was pretty heavy on the brakes. I think my USB X-Plane pedals got me in a real bad habit of putting my entire foot on the pedal.

Also, I think the runway length of about 2,600 feet freaked me out and made me feel like a carrier landing was always necessary.

Now I remind myself "heels on the floor" when entering a runway, and, part of my before landing check. Now, if I need some brake, I have to lift my foot off the floor to apply.

If you're on speed, very little brake is required.
 
Tony_Fletcher said:
60 feet is a pretty wide runway. My home base is 40.

Early in my training, I was pretty heavy on the brakes. I think my USB X-Plane pedals got me in a real bad habit of putting my entire foot on the pedal.

Also, I think the runway length of about 2,600 feet freaked me out and made me feel like a carrier landing was always necessary.

Now I remind myself "heels on the floor" when entering a runway, and, part of my before landing check. Now, if I need some brake, I have to lift my foot off the floor to apply.

If you're on speed, very little brake is required.
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2600' is short? What were you learning in?
 
No. 2,600 isn't short. It just felt that way when I began my training. Pattern work wasn't allowed at my airport, so we would often head out to practice at other airports with much larger runways. So, when returning home, the 40x2600 looked like a small target.

It's not a big deal now, but it did give me pause back when I started.
 
EdFred said:
With a vast majority of my hours in planes with rudder/nose-wheel interconnect, the "rule" is feet off the rudder pedals completely just before touchdown.
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Don't know about what you're flying but Cessnas are designed to handle that. The whiffle tree and bungee system are configured to transition from rudder to nose wheel steering without breaking things. And airborne the whiffle tree and bungees work against the centering cam when the nose gear is fully extended.
 
denverpilot said:
Don't know about what you're flying but Cessnas are designed to handle that. The whiffle tree and bungee system are configured to transition from rudder to nose wheel steering without breaking things. And airborne the whiffle tree and bungees work against the centering cam when the nose gear is fully extended.
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PA28/PA24.
 
BillTIZ said:
I was renting a C-182 in Abilene TX. Almost every time I rented, there was a new tire on one side or the other. Turns out there was a retired AF O-6 that the flight school finally banned from renting. Every time he flew he flat spotted the tires. The straw that finally broke, he wore it down to the tube and had a flat that blocked the runway.
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Once you get used to flying aircraft with antiskid it's hard to go back. :D
 
vdehart said:
I just got my private pilot certificate three weeks ago. I did the majority of my training on a 150' wide 5000' long runway. Today I found myself landing on a 60' wide runway, which as you may imagine seems rather small compared to what I trained on. I lined up well with the centerline but I didn't realize I actually had my foot a little high on the left rudder pedal and was depressing the toe brake before the tires were down. As soon as this tire made contact the plane turned left pretty violently and required an immediate right rudder correction to straighten it all out. Lesson learned, I need to consciously keep my toes off the brakes until the plane is firmly on the ground. With so little runway on each side this little incident scared the heck out of me. And of course, when in doubt go around.
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It's even more fun when you passenger uses the 'footrest' without you realizing! Pre landing checklist with passengers now include "feet off the pedals" check....
 
This is all about low time in type. If your familiar with tow breaks it's not a problem. Taking your feet off the pedals on landing isn't very bright an idea.
 
Dead Stick said:
I'll only add one more thought to this...

Heals on the floor.
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One exception would be a Globe Swift. You need to be ready to drag a brake at a moments notice in any sort of Gusty conditions. Beautiful flying airplane, just needs more rudder. Fortunately the mains are spaced wide and there is plenty of differential braking available if you need it.




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
Landed with a brake on while getting my TW endorsement. Almost bought myself a VASI light. :p

Rich
 
It could be worse. In 2010 30+ people were killed because someone dragged brakes on takeoff in Yak-42. Brakes created nose-down moment, so the crew dialed a large nose-up trim in an attempt to rotate. As soon as they overran the concrete, brakes lost effectiveness, the jet zoomed sharply, stalled and crashed. The investigators speculated that crew's experience with Yak-40 played a role, where pedals are configured differently.
 
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