Title Companies

Can you get a little more specific?
 
Aircraft or.......?


I've used Aerospace Reports out of OKC twice now and nothing but good came out of it. BOTH times they were able to get undisclosed liens cleared,up for me.
 
I've always just ordered the $5 CD from the FAA
 
Unit74 said:
I've used Aerospace Reports out of OKC twice now and nothing but good came out of it.
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No sir, you are incorrect.... lol. You had bad experiences that they convinced you were good ones. =D

Long story long is that I'm trying to buy a plane. Everything was lined up. Title search company came up with a lien issue. The lien was filed with the FAA in the end of 1987. A release was filed in 1988. I have the CD with all the documents on it. The issue for the title company (which may or may not have already been mentioned in this thread) is that the person who signed on behalf of the company used a shortened name for his company in the signature box, and the full name in the secured party box. So instead of signing (name changed) "Bill's Airplanes of Des Moines" with his name and title he signed "Bill's Airplanes" with his name and title.

The guy who signed is dead. The company he signed on behalf of doesn't exist anymore. I contacted the county auditor-controller who has no record of a lien ever filed against the aircraft (because he never pursued it, since he got paid 4 months later). The state's law says that any lien that isn't pursued in court is invalid after 9 months (and he never filed in court since the lien was satisfied). The FAA says that as far as they're concerned, there's no lien since the guy filed the release in 1988 and they accepted it at that time. The TITLE company acknowledged that there's no way anyone could pursue the lien. Yet they're telling the bank there's a cloud on the title.

So the only issue with the title is the company being finicky about a title that was cleared 30 years ago. Very annoyed. The company that is getting paid to fix the title is the only entity that thinks there's a problem with it. Seems awfully convenient.
 
If the FAA has a lien release on the lien, what's the problem? Is your lender drinking that cool aid? Go get a new lender if so. The lien is r leased per the FAA. What's to argue?
 
My lender is going with what the title company is telling them. And the title company says there's a cloud on the title. I'm strongly considering another lender now, not because of their customer service, but the unwillingness of their loan processor to use common sense and kick it up the chain without just blindly accepting whatever the title company is saying.

But again, the FAA says there's no lien. The state which has actual jurisdiction over any lien that would exist says there's no lien that exists. The paperwork that I have copies of says there's no lien.

As of Friday I'm working with the VP of my lending company (she's FANTASTIC) and they are talking to the VP of the title company. Supposedly the title search company has an inquiry in with the FAA that they're waiting to hear back from... but it sounds like that's nonsense too. It really just feels like they are justifying getting paid to 'fix' a non-issue.
 
I'm curious, is it a flat fee you pay the title company? Or is it more if they do more work?
 
Well, you do realize YOUR loan is going to create a lien that will have to be released. If you enter the world of loans, title companies and airplane closing paperwork, you get time delays, old liens, payments, scrutiny and extra costs. This is why most pilots don't use the plane for collateral. OTOH, once you are done, you know you have a lien free airplane!(except for YOUR lien of course).
 
Mike Smith said:
I'm curious, is it a flat fee you pay the title company? Or is it more if they do more work?
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Flat fee for them to ATTEMPT to clear it up.

coloradobluesky said:
Well, you do realize YOUR loan is going to create a lien that will have to be released. If you enter the world of loans, title companies and airplane closing paperwork, you get time delays, old liens, payments, scrutiny and extra costs. This is why most pilots don't use the plane for collateral. OTOH, once you are done, you know you have a lien free airplane!(except for YOUR lien of course).
Click to expand...

Yeah.... but the lien created on my behalf will be mine. So that one I'm okay with, LoL. It's this magical one that everyone says doesn't exist except for the title company that I have a problem with.
 
Yes, but will it be "properly released" when you sell the plane?
 
You won't but if someone later on gets a loan he will.

I drink Margaritas. I find it helps me understand things like this... :)
 
Bear in mind a couple of things.

First of all, liens exist by operation of state law; the FAA's opinion is meaningless. They merely act as a clearinghouse for lien information.

So, the title company says there's a "cloud" on the title; ask them for an opinion letter stating the basis for their conclusion. Ask them to explain to you (and the world) a plausible way that the "lien" on the plane could be foreclosed, now.

If the title had its inception in Texas, I could write a letter disposing of the title based upon expiration of the statutory period for bringing suit to enforce the claimed lien; most every state, same thing.
 
SCCutler said:
Bear in mind a couple of things.

First of all, liens exist by operation of state law; the FAA's opinion is meaningless. They merely act as a clearinghouse for lien information.

So, the title company says there's a "cloud" on the title; ask them for an opinion letter stating the basis for their conclusion. Ask them to explain to you (and the world) a plausible way that the "lien" on the plane could be foreclosed, now.

If the title had its inception in Texas, I could write a letter disposing of the title based upon expiration of the statutory period for bringing suit to enforce the claimed lien; most every state, same thing.
Click to expand...

That is exactly the conversation I had with the FAA on Friday. I have done my research and I verified with the 'examiner' that the FAA isn't a party to the lien in any way. They just are a repository for the information. I got the CD as well, and I very clearly have the notice of lien AND the release. The title company takes issue with the lack of 3 words in the signature box. The FAA person even stated that the only time the FAA is going to research a title is for export, and if she was looking at the title for this particular plane for export, she would have no qualms about clearing the plane.

The particular lien/title issue that occurred originated in Washington state. Pursuant to their laws, any lien action against any chattel must be pursued in court within 9 months of the notice to whoever is being served. Since that action was never pursued, the lien was invalidated. And why was it never pursued? BECAUSE THE LIEN WAS SATISFIED AND RELEASED.

Having the title company formally document their opinion is actually a great idea. I'm calling the bank first thing in the morning to get this all handled tomorrow. I'm fortunate that there's a 3 hour time zone difference, because after I got off the phone with the FAA I was going to lose my mind after realizing I've been jerked around for two weeks for no reason.
 
Something else to consider. If "Bill's Airplanes" still existed at the time of his death, it's very likely an attorney filed an affidavit stating all of the business names the business and the owner ever did business as, during Probate. Pretty easy to pull the document from court records in most States and then tell the Title company you did their work for them, you want a refund, oh, and while we're chatting, here's the proof that they're idiots.

Just a thought. If he closed down the business with the sale of the airplane in '88, less likely such an affidavit exists.
 
That's a good lead. There's some civil process at the time of his death, but it's mostly execution of his will and what not. Nothing in the court records under his company's name though.

He never owned the aircraft. Looked like someone else owned the aircraft and his company did maintenance on it. That's the section they used in the wording of the lien notice... that anyone doing repairs to someone else's property has the right to file a lien against said property.

But yeah. More research to be done overnight to see if there's anything like that at the time of his death.

This thread turned into something way more helpful than I expected. LoL
 
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