Thoughts on this night flight

MassPilot

MassPilot

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FloridaPilot
I'm planning on flying tonight, but I'm starting to have some hesitation. My plan is to fly from 1B9 to KPSM and back. I will depart 1B9 around 1900 local and depart KPSM around 2200 local. I will try to get cleared through the Boston Class B, but my backup plan is to fly over KBED under the 3000 foot shelf.

My hesitation comes from the fact that there is no moon tonight and the forecast is calling for SCT to BKN at 25,000 feet, possibly lowering to 15,000 feet on the way home. I have 85 hours TT and I'm not instrument rated. My night experience consists of the basic PP night requirements, plus a trip to the practice area and three landings with a CFI about four weeks ago. During the PP training there was a full moon. Four weeks ago there was a crescent moon, but definitely a discernible horizon. This is the Boston metro area, so there are plenty of ground lights, but as I get closer to NH, there is less. The plane is a C172SP with steam gauges and no functional autopilot.

Here are some relevant TAF's:
[FONT=Monospace,Courier]KBOS 131504Z 1315/1418 VRB04KT P6SM SCT250 FM140400 23004KT P6SM BKN150 FM141600 24008KT P6SM FEW200

[/FONT][FONT=Monospace,Courier]KPSM 131120Z 1312/1412 VRB03KT P6SM BKN250[/FONT]

Any thoughts or tips? Is this just a bad idea? Thanks for your input
 
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I suspect it will not be a big problem for you, although I probably wouldn't go over BOS' Class B. Just scoot around to the west and save the climb. Sometimes you just need to go for it> This is a relatively short hop, and will be a good confidence builder for you.
 
I think the lack of moon would be of more concern if there were lower clouds you could potentially run into. There are plenty of lights on ground in that area for you to tell which way is up.
 
My first question is how comfortable do you feel flying at night. From your question it seems not that comfortable, if so then I would hold off until mor comfortable. As we all know flying at night can be more challenging than during the day, but certainly is well worth it. I have about 350 hrs and fly at night about once every third week. Typically it is on short trips around the local area. Last week I went to another airport about 40 miles away, and was mostly over areas with no ground lighting. The moon was not up so essentially it was a moonless night. Without a clear horizon I spent as much time checking my instruments as I did looking out my aircraft. I am instrumented rated. My point is that there is a lot more going on during flying at night, and the chances for messing up are increased. You really need to be on the top of your game, and though you probably can do it, based on your incertainty I am reading in your question, I wonder if going with an instructor my not be a bad idea.

Doug
 
We did my my dual night X/C on a moonless night, and I had no trouble keeping right side up. I'm not sure about where you are, but around here there are enough lights on the ground to keep you oriented even out in the boonies (farm country, small towns spaced 10-15 miles apart). It really wasn't a problem.
 
As long as the clouds stay up where they're forecasted, I would probably go. I'm at the same point as you (82 hrs and no IR), so I'm very careful when I head out at night.

I've done some short x-c (25 or so miles) at night, but haven't ventured out on a bigger one yet. I've seen both full moon and no moon and really haven't had a problem either way.
 
DaleB said:
We did my my dual night X/C on a moonless night, and I had no trouble keeping right side up. I'm not sure about where you are, but around here there are enough lights on the ground to keep you oriented even out in the boonies (farm country, small towns spaced 10-15 miles apart). It really wasn't a problem.
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In the last three months I've quadrupled the number of night hours I have, but it's all been site-seeing from KUGN (about 30nm north of Chicago) to Navy Pier and back along the coastline. The whole route is lit up about as brightly as most HIRL systems =P

A key part of this for me is that I'm flying under the bravo, and many of the sky scrapers are taller than where I'm flying. If there's a cloud between me and the city it's visible pretty early. On the way back it's less obvious, but this is why we check prog charts.
 
douglas393 said:
My first question is how comfortable do you feel flying at night. From your question it seems not that comfortable, if so then I would hold off until mor comfortable. As we all know flying at night can be more challenging than during the day, but certainly is well worth it. I have about 350 hrs and fly at night about once every third week. Typically it is on short trips around the local area. Last week I went to another airport about 40 miles away, and was mostly over areas with no ground lighting. The moon was not up so essentially it was a moonless night. Without a clear horizon I spent as much time checking my instruments as I did looking out my aircraft. I am instrumented rated. My point is that there is a lot more going on during flying at night, and the chances for messing up are increased. You really need to be on the top of your game, and though you probably can do it, based on your incertainty I am reading in your question, I wonder if going with an instructor my not be a bad idea.

Doug
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I wasn't comfortable flying night at all. I dreaded it. During my commercial I didn't have a choice. With my schedule at the time flying after 5 was all I could do sometimes and by 5 it was already dark. All I could do was make sure everything looked as close to perfect as possible weather wise, plane wise, route wise and put my big boy pants on and go. After flying a couple times at night from Fresno over to the bay area and down to San Diego I learned that flying at night was much more quite, more peaceful and it helped develop my flight planning skills in case of a power off landing. I don't think you should tell him not to go just cause he's scared. I wasn't exactly ecstatic when my CFI jumped out of that plane for the first time and sent me off but apparently he felt confident enough that if need be I could crash gracefully. Hehe. I say the weather looks fine, avoid the Bravo and have a safe trip.
 
Sounds like a good confidence builder flight. I'd never dissuade someone from spend more time with an instructor, but the circumstances you describe present a good opportunity to venture beyond the practice area and get some night XC experience without any help.
 
MassPilot said:
I'm planning on flying tonight, but I'm starting to have some hesitation. My plan is to fly from 1B9 to KPSM and back. I will depart 1B9 around 1900 local and depart KPSM around 2200 local. I will try to get cleared over the Boston Class B, but my backup plan is to fly over KBED under the 3000 foot shelf.
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It sounds like the conditions couldn't be better. Yes, there will be less ground lights nearer PSM but there will be enough.

The best way up there is to go under the 2000ft shelf between BOS and BED. You can get remarkably close to downtown Boston, with some fantastic views at night. Just make sure you go between the LWM and BVY Class Ds, or climb once you reach the 3000ft shelf.

On the way back, PSM Ground can arrange Flight Following for you. You are unlikely to be cleared through the Bravo. On Flight Following they typically clear you through the BED Class D at or above 2500ft without prompting.
 
DaleB said:
We did my my dual night X/C on a moonless night, and I had no trouble keeping right side up. I'm not sure about where you are, but around here there are enough lights on the ground to keep you oriented even out in the boonies (farm country, small towns spaced 10-15 miles apart). It really wasn't a problem.
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Right side up was not the problem, my problem was I have a tendency to ascend very slowly, about 25 feet or less a minute. Keeping on track is not a problem either, it is just staying at altitude. In that I know it is an issue I just keep on top of it. I am in southwest florida. On the coast lights aboound unless I am over water, but once you go inland the next lighted town could be thirty miles away and everything in between is orange grove, swamp, or un developed land. Thus flying on heading is not a real issue, just my little problem with keeping at altitude. During the day when I can see the ground and horizon clearly I have no problem, otherwise I am IFR.

Doug
 
I have been comfortable with night flying, but I have never gone without a CFI and without a moon and I'm somewhat apprehensive about it.

I was thinking about trying to get a Bravo clearance because I figured it would give me the best view of Boston. I love flying over big cities. I am comfortable on the radio, and I figured that at least on the return trip they'd be able to work me in.
 
I think you'll be fine as long as you don't run into any unforecast clouds. Luckily, with bright lights from the ground it's pretty easy to see any clouds at your alt. The only thing I can suggest is to go 1B9 to KPSM, via OWD, BED, LWM. Stay at ~2800ft, keep in touch with towers along the way, file a flight plan, and I know it sounds funny, but along with your normal navigation process, do IFR - as in, I Follow Roads. Gives you a kind of sense of familiarity with what you already know. Even if you don't get into anyone's traffic area, you can call the tower and advise them of your location and request current traffic, or just use VFR flight following if they will give it to you. Basically, just follow the 95/495 route, and make sure you don't crack the 2000' class B ring.
 
MassPilot said:
I have been comfortable with night flying, but I have never gone without a CFI and without a moon and I'm somewhat apprehensive about it.

I was thinking about trying to get a Bravo clearance because I figured it would give me the best view of Boston. I love flying over big cities. I am comfortable on the radio, and I figured that at least on the return trip they'd be able to work me in.
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Then go for it and have a good time. Personally, I have not seen a big difference in my experience between moon lit and moonless nights that it makes a go decision and no go decision. You have to be careful and on the top of your game either way.

Doug
 
One more thing I just recalled. There is -- I guess informed speculation that the Kennedy accident happened partially as a result of spacial disorientation with the angle of the horizon as represented by the abrupt change in lights from on and off-shore. As you will be flying NNE, and the light horizon will appear 'skewed' from the right, be aware of this and account for it. Do not just fly the horizon as you would normally.
 
Those clouds don't seem to be an issue. You also have VORs there to help you out. If your worried about the night, why not bring a more experienced pilot along, or an instructor. One last thought, why not fly under the 4000 foot Class B shelf, and give yourself a little more altitude.
 
Take a flashlight, and one of those dumb looking headlamps.. Both cheap and from walmart, check them both before you leave and pay a little more attention to the intstruments during flight... Especially on takeoff if thre is no horizon, sometimes it just disappears..
 
Stay in the pattern for stop-n-goes. If you're comfortable after 3 and things look good ... extend out from the home drome.

You should start practicing flying by instruments, making sure you're 100% comfortable with VOR tracking and finally, get a lesson with an instructor on how to fly an ILS (to at least see it a time or 5) and set localizer freqs.
 
I would go for it. You always have the option of turning back. You will start out with a lot of ground lights. If when you get to NH you feel uncomfortable with the lights defining the horizon, do a 180 and head back to the lights. I bet you will find out it is better than you expected and will LOVE the flight.
 
Thank you all for the advice and encouragement. I am definitely feeling more comfortable about this. Any more tips or opinions are appreciated.
 
Personally, I use flight following on all longer VFR flights. if you are comfortable with it, I would add this to the list..
 
MassPilot said:
Thank you all for the advice and encouragement. I am definitely feeling more comfortable about this. Any more tips or opinions are appreciated.
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1.Head lamps from sporting goods stores are about 5 times cheaper than aviation head/hat lights - carry at least two.
2. Solo night flights you'll definitely start "hearing things" (auto rough)
3. Landings seem easier for me at night than daytime
4. Flare when you see the skid marks
5. Having a hand held comes in handy if Comm goes TU and you need to turn on pilot controlled lighting.
6. Disorientation is easier at night.
7. If flying dark night no moon, auto-kinesis will probably occur. In my area (mountans) stars appear to start moving similar to traffic coming down off a high mountain pass ... really makes you check and re-check your altitude about 10 times when it happens.
8. Some crap actually looks like a UFO if you're near a military firing area like I am (after burn, vs rockets etc.) ... don't key up and report that stuff to ATC:eek:
9. A low pass at slow airports at night will usually scare off most of the "critters" hangng out near the runway edge ... unless they're hungry.
10. I pick route of flight near roads in my area as terrain is very inhospitable to an engine out at night.
 
I think you'd be hard pressed in that dense a poulation area not to have enough light... so you'll be good there.

Others have given local advise on route. I'll stay out of that one. Obviously the Boston Bravo is your biggest challenge there. Lots of ways to deal with that one, biggest one being, just talk to them. Night time often allows routings and such that just can't be given during daytime.

At least give a tiny thought to having enough altitude and a route that might allow a glide to an airfield when possible and practical.

If you're uncomfortable in the area where it gets darker, just turn around. ;)

I think you'll enjoy it. There's always a little apprehension (not huge or overwhelming, just "there") anywhere in a single at night.

Flashlights. You'll become an aficionado. I think I'm up to five available to choose from. Haha. I really like the fat LED puck with a flat side from Harbor Freight for pre-flight chores. Headlamps for flying chores. Get them at Home Depot and save yourself lots of money over "pilot" versions of the same thing. Soooo much better than the flashlight juggling games of my youth. ;)
 
it does get dark when you get north of Mass, but it won't be long before you see the beacon of PSM and probably PWM tonight.
 
I haven't had time to write about it until now, but I did it and it was awesome! The lack of moonlight was not much of an issue. Even in NH there was enough lights on the ground to allow me to fly visually. Taking off out of Portsmouth I was on instruments for the first 500 or 600 feet of the climb (and I was actually pretty comfortable with it), but then the city lights came into view.

I was planning on flying around the bravo over BED, but when I asked for flight following I figured I'd ask for a class bravo transit while I was at it. He told me to expect a bravo clearance from the next controller. After the hand-off they told me, "cleared direct Portsmouth through the class bravo at 5500 feet." The route took me right over downtown Boston. What an amazing view! On the way back I was cleared direct at 4500 feet.

What an incredible flight! I feel much more confident about night flying now. I've attached some pictures.
 

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