Thoughts on airworthyness? '46 navion

K

Kingsly

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Some of my earliest memories are of climbing around in the tail boom of my grandpa's '46 North American Navion as he rebuilt her and added lots of modifications along the way.
Some twenty years later she's mine to look after. Sadly my grandfather passed away some eight years ago, which is also when she ha her last annual. The plane spent about six years on a tiedown in overland park, ks, where she developed a port side list due to probably blown hydraulics on the port landing gear, and her engine bay became host to a small colony of birds. Some two years ago I flew out there and cleaned out the birds and had her put in a hangar.

Living in Los Angeles, it's somewhat difficult for me to keep a close watch on her. I'm about to begin work toward my license, and the whole family agrees shed be better looked after (and probably suffer less at the hand of mother nature) in sunny socal!

I'd like to get her airworthy enough for a ferry permit to whiteman in the San Fernando valley, where I can spend every spare moment bringing her back to the condition my grandpa kept her in!

Other than the blown shock, I don't know of anything pressing that is wrong with the plane. The engine turns over freely (we haven't tried starting it).

Thoughts on what I'd need to do?

Thanks!
 
I'm new to the world of aircraft maintenance (though just about anything else with an engine I can work on blindfolded. :) ), can you explain why I'd possibly need to o a rebuild?

Thanks.
 
It's been 8 years since it has been airworthy and it sat outside for 6 of that. That sucker needs a lot of work.
I doubt you'd be able to convince the FSDO to give you a ferry permit without doing an annual.
Do not fly behind an engine that has sat outside so long without being properly pickled. I second the overhaul.
Other stuff like instruments, paint, radios, and interior could wait.
 
Kingsly said:
I'm new to the world of aircraft maintenance (though just about anything else with an engine I can work on blindfolded. :) ), can you explain why I'd possibly need to o a rebuild?

Thanks.
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Your cylinders and possibly bearings have been rusting for 8 years (unless it was pickled).
The manufacturers maintenance intervals assume some amount of usage of the engine which keeps parts covered with oil. When that usage doesn't happen, parts begin to rust. The only way to be sure that hasen't happened would be to pull the engine apart. If you've pulled the engine apart you might as well finish the overhaul because you are halfway to paying for it.

Please, don't fly it w/o an overhaul.
 
Kingsly said:
can you explain why I'd possibly need to o a rebuild?
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Because you have no idea what condition that airplane engine is in after sitting for 8 year (6 outdoors) at the very least you have to open it up to look to see what type of corrosion you have and by the time you are doing that you could do the rebuild and know what type of shape your engine is in.
 
Key words are "most likely". That does NOT mean that it is a foregone conclusion. What it will take is a mechanic with a good borescope to look inside the engine to see what is actually there.

As far as a full blown annual just to ferry, uhh, I am not sure I would necessarily agree with that. BUT, it would behoove you to find a mechanic with Navion experience to look it over and give his recommendation.

BTW, where in Overland Park? I am a KC boy myself.
 
PM for the name of a good (and reasonable) guy who lives close-by and might be able to help get it back in service.
 
Good advice above. In addition to internal corrosion / rust from oil not being distributed throughout the engine and it being operated up to temperature (and thus burning off moisture) on a regularly basis, it's very likely that internal rubber gaskets/seals are severely dried / cracked and could fail without notice.

I'd not want to fly it over the mountains/deserts between KS and SoCal without an overhaul or extremely detailed annual inspection.

Congrats on wanting to learn to fly, to carry on the dream, and to inherit an airplane with which to do it!
 
My father and I ferried two aircraft back to KS that had set for many years. The BT-13 sat for 9 years in a hangar in NY and the Fairchild 24 set outside in AR for about 8 years. With a lot of inspection and repairing as needed the Navion could be made flyable. I have always felt more comfortable having the airplane back home and in my own control to do any big repairs.

There were a few A-26 aircraft that set off the edge of the runway here in KHUT for many years. Someone bought them and used a rope and truck to get the engines turning again, they all flew out.

Kevin
 
Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe said:
There is always the flatbed trailer option.
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And if you need someone with the experience on trailering a Navion, give me a PM. A friend of mine bought one last winter in MA and on its way home to MO lost an engine over PA. The pilot/A&P did an outstanding job of doing a belly landing in the only open field within 5 miles. They had to hire a crane to lift it off the wings and place it on a 35' 5th wheel trailer. It is now back on its gear and should be back flying within the year.
 
I still think getting a knowledgeable mechanic to look at it first would be money well spent.
 
wabower said:
PM for the name of a good (and reasonable) guy who lives close-by and might be able to help get it back in service.
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If Wayne has a good local guy for you, that would really be your best option. Have someone local and trustworthy get it in annual for you and give you a list of squawks that are aren't "Airworthy" issues for you to take care of. Don't worry, there will still be plenty for you to do, but at least you will be starting with a safe plane and not chasing thing you don't really have to.

After this amount of time out of annual and sitting, there is a better than average chance you will be denied a ferry permit without an annual level inspection anyway if there are services available on the field, and likely they'd limit the permit to the closest field with services if there is not (plus you'll need an A&P to sign off the permit that the plane is safe to fly), so if it passes, that problem is eliminated, and if it doesn't you have a better basis on which to ask for the ferry permit.

Trailering,,,eeessh that opens up its own entire can of worms. That's a major disassemble job on a Navion and is subject to creating its own expensive damages. Typically trailering planes is reserved for crashed aircraft. Even salvors will fix it on site if possible rather than load it up.
 
Kingsly said:
I'm new to the world of aircraft maintenance (though just about anything else with an engine I can work on blindfolded. :) ), can you explain why I'd possibly need to o a rebuild?

Thanks.
Click to expand...

I'll chime in on this one with a piece of personal history so you can see how dangerous it might be to not have the annual (or trucked as some have said) before you fly her home:

My grandfather ran a small engine business. I learned how to strip apart and rebuild small engines (Tecumseh, Briggs & Stratton, et al) as a child. I got married a couple of years back and we bought a house. She had a lawnmower she had let her father use, and he had left outside for one winter and probably the whole summer before that. That thing ran, but in the end it ran like sh*t.

I had to sharpen / balance the blade, clean the carriage, and tear apart the engine to get it to work right again. I just started with the carbs because the float was shot. In the end I wound up replacing the rings so it wouldn't burn oil. That was just one year of not being cared for. Consider, aircraft engines are more complex and precise than a little lawnmower engine. Oh and that's just the engine, not the rest of her.

Fly safe.
 
Run away!
You will end up with about twice what the plane is worth in it when you are said and done. A 60 yo complex HP is not a good first plane to fly or to learn how to maintain one. Believe it or not there is no value in a free plane. Ask me how I know. Pickle the plane (or scrap it), get your license, buy a 172 and then think about the (a) Navion. Just my .02, if you don’t have a budget then go for it!
 
manac said:
Run away!
You will end up with about twice what the plane is worth in it when you are said and done. A 60 yo complex HP is not a good first plane to fly or to learn how to maintain one. Believe it or not there is no value in a free plane. Ask me how I know. Pickle the plane (or scrap it), get your license, buy a 172 and then think about the (a) Navion. Just my .02, if you don’t have a budget then go for it!
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Good point. A Navion rebuild will be a labor of love. Personally, I'd totally do it. It's a freakin' Navion.

BTW, I saw a Twin Navion at a fly-in ealier this summer. It was a Riley creation, IIRC.

It is possible to do your pimary training in an HP plane. I did. Retractable may be difficult to get insurance.

You've got a long term project here. I second the suggestion to learn in something else, while rebuilding the Nav.
 
COFlyBoy said:
Good point. A Navion rebuild will be a labor of love. Personally, I'd totally do it. It's a freakin' Navion.

BTW, I saw a Twin Navion at a fly-in ealier this summer. It was a Riley creation, IIRC.

It is possible to do your pimary training in an HP plane. I did. Retractable may be difficult to get insurance.

You've got a long term project here. I second the suggestion to learn in something else, while rebuilding the Nav.
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My dad got his ticket in a Navion. No problem - except for one gear up landing. If you can remember to put the gear down, you will be OK in it. It's not hard to fly.
 
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