This'll buff right out

jpower

jpower

Cleared for Takeoff
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James
http://news.sky.com/story/1035337/student-pilot-crash-lands-after-losing-wheel

Apparently a wheel fell off a warrior just after takeoff. The student (with 120 hours...instrument maybe?) burned off fuel for a couple of hours at the instructor's recommendation. Video of the landing shown in the above link, and more details in the article. Not sure how accurate the article is, of course, and I can't find another source. Didn't look very hard either.

Any guesses as to why he veered to the left? The right wheel fell off, which would mean that he should have veered to the right. Maybe he forgot that the right brake would be pretty ineffective with no wheel? Or else he was attempting to compensate for the right turning tendencies but tried too hard?
 
I inherited a student who had same thing happen in a Warrior... one of the mains fell off right after takeoff... came here a little gun shy
 
I wonder how he knew the wheel was gone...did he see it fall off? Or maybe the tower advised him?
 
NoHeat said:
I'm guessing he applied the brakes, which would turn the plane left when only the left side has a brake.
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And it look like he didn't try to land on the side with wheel either. It hit pretty hard on the wheel less side.
 
I would think you'd roll to the side with the remaining tire. Friction from the roll would slow down that side faster unless you guys get tires from the stores that sell frictionless pulleys from the physics classes back in college. :lol:
 
I've wondered why he didn't pull the mixture as soon as it touched down.
 
Yeah if he kept off the brakes, there probably would have been no damage at all except for the right main, which was already broke.
 
Geico266 said:
:yes:

I thought he did good for his experience level.
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Agreed.............. BUT....

He has a couple of hours to burn off fuel.... During that time the people on the ground were able to call the media, set up cameras etc..... His instructor should have gone through the emergency procedures...

1- With the right wheel missing, the plane will no doubt pull the the right when the gear stub hits the ground.... he should have had put it down smoother and instantly used aileron to keep the right wing as light as possible.. Mission FAIL..

2- He should have been instructed not to use both brake peddles as the right one will do NOTHING... Watch the rudder, it did not deflect to the left like it would had he used only left rudder and brake. Use just enough brake and rudder to keep it straight... Mission FAIL

3- On landing he should have been instructed on emergency procedures..
Ignition- OFF... Fuel- OFF, Master-OFF... Mission FAIL...

4- On a emergency landing, open the door so it will not jam shut.....
He passed that one...:thumbsup:

All in all he did ok.. The instructor should have been more proactive in his coaching the student over the radio for the 2 hours he circled the field....



Don't ya just hate Monday morning quarterbacks ??:rolleyes::yes:
 
The thing that caught my attention was that he was called a student pilot and showed he had a 120 hours of flight time. Maybe the regs are different down under, but really 120 hours of primary flight training?

"The student has 120 hours of flight time experience, the Herald Sun said."
 
Marauder said:
The thing that caught my attention was that he was called a student pilot and showed he had a 120 hours of flight time. Maybe the regs are different down under, but really 120 hours of primary flight training?

"The student has 120 hours of flight time experience, the Herald Sun said."
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I didn't catch that. That sure is a lot. Still, he did okay. C student.
 
It's true that we can all Monday-morning-quarterback these kinds of things. I am also curious why the mixture wouldn't have been pulled. At 120 hours I would hope to have my emergency procedures down cold, instruction from my CFI notwithstanding. Getting the engine off would have slowed him down and possibly prevented the abrupt veering to the left. But I can't say I'd have done any better.

All in all a great job keeping his cool and getting the plane (and himself) on the ground safely.
 
I recall the old statement. "Any landing you can walk away from is a good one."

Cheers
 
Why wouldn't a gear up landing not be preferred in this situation? :dunno:

Engine off on final to avoid a prop strike and belly it in?

Would seem safer for the pilot to me. :confused:
 
Hard to argue with any landing you walk away from is a good one. But... He seemed really hot coming in. I would have looked for his best stall landing.
 
Geico266 said:
Why wouldn't a gear up landing not be preferred in this situation? :dunno:

Engine off on final to avoid a prop strike and belly it in?

Would seem safer for the pilot to me. :confused:
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Kinda hard to do with a fixed gear plane.
 
Initially the right gear leg hit hard, then it was off of the runway for a short time. With the right gear leg off the runway, the plane would pull to the left whether or not left brake was used. Then the left main tire got a little sideways adding more drag. With decreasing airspeed, VS and rudder were less effective. He did not apply full right rudder soon enough or at all at the end, then it was all over.

He did a fine job. I can't say I would have done any better. I may have wanted to run the tanks dry over the field and dead stick it in with prop horizontal.
 
RV10flyer said:
Initially the right gear leg hit hard, then it was off of the runway for a short time. With the right gear leg off the runway, the plane would pull to the left whether or not left brake was used. Then the left main tire got a little sideways adding more drag. With decreasing airspeed, VS and rudder were less effective. He did not apply full right rudder soon enough or at all at the end, then it was all over.

He did a fine job. I can't say I would have done any better. I may have wanted to run the tanks dry over the field and dead stick it in with prop horizontal.
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I respectfully disagree... When the stub of the right gear was gouging the pavement there would be a pull in that direction... Once that stub leaves the asphalt and digs into dirt it is gonna pull that way several times as hard... There is NO way it is going the pull to the left with a rolling tire on the left side and a huge drag on the right..:no::nonod: IMHO...
 
Geico266 said:
Engine off on final to avoid a prop strike and belly it in?
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[rant]
This is a peeve of mine. I'm not going to take a minor issue (gear won't extend, or a wheel fell off) and turn it into an in-flight emergency by causing an engine failure.
What happens if I need that engine? We;ve all had landings go bad in the flare, I just removed my ability to go around at the time when I am going to be most picky about being exactly on centerline, on speed, and on profile.

Plus, my deductible is already covered before the first piece of aluminum touches the ground. "Saving" the engine is only saving it for the insurance company.
[/rant]
 
PilotAlan said:
[rant]
This is a peeve of mine. I'm not going to take a minor issue (gear won't extend, or a wheel fell off) and turn it into an in-flight emergency by causing an engine failure.
What happens if I need that engine? We;ve all had landings go bad in the flare, I just removed my ability to go around at the time when I am going to be most picky about being exactly on centerline, on speed, and on profile.

Plus, my deductible is already covered before the first piece of aluminum touches the ground. "Saving" the engine is only saving it for the insurance company.
[/rant]
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Yeah.. BUT....

A running engine is a source of ignition in the case you ventilate the fuel tanks... If he only had a 1000 foot runway to plant it on I would say , let it run.... On a multi thousand foot long runway, he has plenty of time to re-flair and land the plane... It is not like he "greased" it on anyway.:no::nonod:


I will take my chances with a dead motor..:yes::redface:
 
PilotAlan said:
[rant]
This is a peeve of mine. I'm not going to take a minor issue (gear won't extend, or a wheel fell off) and turn it into an in-flight emergency by causing an engine failure.
What happens if I need that engine? We;ve all had landings go bad in the flare, I just removed my ability to go around at the time when I am going to be most picky about being exactly on centerline, on speed, and on profile.

Plus, my deductible is already covered before the first piece of aluminum touches the ground. "Saving" the engine is only saving it for the insurance company.
[/rant]
Click to expand...

+1 Ayup!

But also Look at the video and look at the nose wheel. The pilot had the right pedal depressed the nose wheel was turning to the right yet the plane went left. It looks like a good portion of the strut came off not just the wheel and when the left wheel touched it was the only friction point as it would appear what was left of the right strut had not made contact with the ground when the left wheel did and when it did I think it looks like it ripped off leaving all the friction on the left side.
 
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I practice engine out landings and would much rather have my fuel completely depleted and master off before touchdown in a case where I might rupture a fuel tank. Also I would find the biggest runway available. The chances of flipping are much less if you can stay on pavement. If one does not practice pulling that mixture knob out and turning the master off, it is unlikely we will do it in an emergency. Hey, my plane actually kept flying and once I had 75 hours or so I had a good feel for how much energy it had left during landing.
 
If you do a controlled landing, the chances of getting a fuel leak and potential fire are approximately zero.
When's the last time you saw someone have a post-landing fire in a normal, standard landing with gear-up? Not trying to put it on the grass, not doing anything different, just landing the plane as standard but with the wheels up.

Just seems to me that shutting off the engine is adding variables and reducing options, and neither of those are things I want to do during an emergency.
 
PilotAlan said:
If you do a controlled landing, the chances of getting a fuel leak and potential fire are approximately zero.
When's the last time you saw someone have a post-landing fire in a normal, standard landing with gear-up? Not trying to put it on the grass, not doing anything different, just landing the plane as standard but with the wheels up.

Just seems to me that shutting off the engine is adding variables and reducing options, and neither of those are things I want to do during an emergency.
Click to expand...

Besides...

A ) It's (probably) a rental. Who cares about the engine?

B ) Given that the wheel fell off, it was likely (over) due for an overhaul anyhow.

C ) It's (probably) a rental.
 
PilotAlan said:
If you do a controlled landing, the chances of getting a fuel leak and potential fire are approximately zero.
When's the last time you saw someone have a post-landing fire in a normal, standard landing with gear-up? Not trying to put it on the grass, not doing anything different, just landing the plane as standard but with the wheels up.

Just seems to me that shutting off the engine is adding variables and reducing options, and neither of those are things I want to do during an emergency.
Click to expand...

Let's just agree to disagree.:dunno::yes:
 
N801BH said:
Let's just agree to disagree.:dunno::yes:
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Fair enough. I'm just walking through my decision process for the purpose of discussion.
I'm not saying my position is the only right one. I'm not nearly young enough to know everything.
 
It is all fun. We need to run these scenarios through our minds often and can learn from each other. Hopefully I don't ever forget to reinstall something properly, but it is best to be as prepared as possible.
 
He did great.

I like the way he just sits in the cockpit after sliding to a stop. Prolly hyper-ventilating. :yikes:
 
I am going to go out on a limb here and say that I didn't think he did a great job at all. Yes I am going to be that guy. First if he has 120 Hr and is still a student, well that explains alot about why is went so bad. I want to say, It worked for him, but he was close to making that real bad. It appears he was entirely too fast, tried to cram it on the runway, appears to have hit the brake. To me that could have went much better than it did. So with all that being said it worked and he can come take another lesson:thumbsup:
 
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