Thinking About a Boat

Like I said, call around to any marina in the inland area and ask when the last leakthrough happened on a fresh water boat. I bet it'll be 10 years or more. Of course, there's always that one guy, who didn't winterize, and has a crack, then leaves it wet, and ruins something. Don't be that guy....

People just don't know trailer boating. :mad2:
 
What are the thoughts on increased power/torque through the outdrive? A few sites suggest that the torque is what kills the drives. Honestly, before I went for more power I'd go for another boat, unless we find this thing is just perfect for us other than power. My expectation is that we'll find it either works as-is or doesn't.

My real goal would be fuel injected LOP. Looks like on a Mercruiser 260 fuel consumption for normal cruise is 7-8 gph. I can do better. :D
 
Teak: Really not that hard to maintain. I used to do it on a 37' Irwin (sailboat) and a late-80's 25' Sea Ray. It is actually quite easy and rewarding to refinish it. I always used a gel-cleaner and steel wool or good scrub brush, followed by oil.

Sea Rays are built for comfort, not speed. For the age your kids are, it will be fine, but they are not great waterskiing platforms.

Get some good training/practice with that single-screw engine. With all the canvas up in a good breeze, they can be a handful. You need to learn how to properly dock it in crosswinds, by using the correct approach angle and pivoting the boat from the tie-off point to dock it. Even with practice and training, our 'Ray once got me in a bit of a pickle in a rainstorm/crosswind with all the covers up and it just couldn't be maneuvered into position. I had to get the side curtains up to reduce the sail area.

If you're relatively new to boating, I'd encourage you to look up your local US Power Squadron group and consider taking a class or two from them.
 
Boat US was a pretty good outfit to belong to. Discounts at West Marine, some other bennies. Kind of like an AOPA for boaters. Don't know if they have a forum for members or not. I was a member when the web was just a gleam in Al Gore's eye...
 
Found these two

This one is probably a little more boat than you're looking for, 20k right now

http://www.govliquidation.com/aucti...marine-_-gl-boatsandmarine1-carousel-_-item-2

61176699_gl_tiny_thumb.jpg


Also a little hurricane rib with a 50hp outboard 2k right now

http://www.govliquidation.com/aucti...marine-_-gl-boatsandmarine1-carousel-_-item-8

61034261_gl_tiny_thumb.jpg
 
Ted DuPuis said:
What are the thoughts on increased power/torque through the outdrive? A few sites suggest that the torque is what kills the drives. Honestly, before I went for more power I'd go for another boat, unless we find this thing is just perfect for us other than power. My expectation is that we'll find it either works as-is or doesn't.

My real goal would be fuel injected LOP. Looks like on a Mercruiser 260 fuel consumption for normal cruise is 7-8 gph. I can do better. :D
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The Merc Alpha I(early) will take up to about 300HP. The Alpha II(later) will take about 330. The Bravo will take up to 420-ish depending on gear case and prop.

The best thing for an outdrive is to just keep it serviced, well sealed and lubricated and it should run many years without problems. When things break it's often due to a leak in the upper or lower gear case allowing water to mix with the lube. Once that happens, the drive doesn't last long. For best economy, you can search for a Volvo DuoProp outdrive. They will take 300HP all day long, and with the two counter-rotating props get excellent economy(for a boat). They were used from about 1989-96 when Volvo changed to a newer gear case that looked a lot like the modern Merc Bravo II with the bigger prop on it.


Forget LOP on a lake boat, way too much throttle changing. It's just not done. Some very modern boats are coming out with cats I've heard, and also O2 sensors for closed loop fuel control, but most are still just open loop. If you want to go that far, you've got some serious engineering to do. There are maps out there for the TEC3, and Megasquirt that offer an 'economy' trim, but I doubt it's LOP, although I haven't messed with Megasquirt, and my last TEC3 tuning was 6 years back, things may have progressed.

My idea that I tested a few times on boats for leaning was an air plate under the carb on the manifold with two hoses leading to a small air regulator. I thought I could adjust the leak into the carb air plate to lean the engine like we do with planes, but instead of lowering the fuel coming in, I would up the air going in, but not past the venturi. It kinda worked, but was a real hassle to get set right, and I was always worried about burning a piston cuz I wasn't sure it was actually LOP without an 8 probe EGT. There is no orifice in the exhaust area to fit one either, unless you go to custom tube headers, and/or something called exhaust water logs(cast Al) where you could drill in and fit one in each cylinder exhaust.

You want to be real careful with the fuel system on a boat, because there's no where for the fumes to go in a closed bottom boat. That's why they have engine room ventilation fans that need to run before starting and also when operating at low power. The bilge blower is turned on for 5 minutes before starting the engine to clear any fuel vapors that might be in the engine bay. Do a youtube search for boat fire, and you'll see some that didn't get the vapor out.

Your best bet is to leave it bone stock, and if you want more power, toss in a bigger engine like the Merc/Chevy 502 MAG with 415-ish HP and a Bravo drive($$$$$$$). Anything bigger will start to get seriously squirrely unless you have the right hull and trim system.
 
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Jim_CAK said:
Ted -
Are you planning to use the boat on the Ohio river?
My brother lives in Cincinnati and used to boat on the river. He had some bad experiences, submerged logs, wing dams not on the charts, and eventually got discouraged and sold. You might try Brookville Lake in Indiana. It is a nice lake and close to your area. And you are not that far from Cumberland for extended trips.

I live in north east Ohio. I have had a 19' Searay for 27 years. It is a bow rider with a 140 hp. Merc I/O. I trailered for the first 7 years, then bought a house on a lake. It is great to have it docked a few feet from the house.

I used to ski behind the 140 hp (I am too old now!). It is "ok" for a full size adult but not ideal. Kids now are into tubing. It does fine pulling a bunch of college age kids on a tube. What is great is the low fuel consumption from the 140. It is about as economical as it can get with a power boat. It has the Chevy Iron Duke in it and has been very reliable. The boat is actually a 1984. It was three years old when I got it. It is dirt simple to work on. I don't work on my cars anymore but the boat is a dream to work on. I sit in the back jump seat and can change plugs and do tune ups without crawling into the bilge.

Someone can give you more history on Searay but I think they went through a lot of changes in the late 80's / early 90's. Brunswick bought them at some point and I got the sense the quality slipped. They also owned Bayliner - more of an entry level boat. At the time I bought, Searay still had a good reputation.
My brother had a Chaparral. It was a great boat - very well built.

Just an FYI - if you stay with something mainstream (Mercruiser) it easy easy to find parts / service at a small marina away from home. We don't quite have the number of marinas that Henning had near him in Florida!

Good luck with your search.
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that is a good point. Just out of college i had a little 17ft wellcraft with a 140hp mercruiser, iron duke chevy. Being at college weight we had no problem skiing behind it, and it sipped fuel. We could ski hard all day for $15 worth of gas (mid 90's). I think about those days when I'm filling up the ebbtide and the has pump $$ approximate putting fuel in my travel air.

I don't see ted in a 4-cylinder but there is no question that small families do just fine in sub-20ft boats with fuel efficient engines.
 
Ted DuPuis said:
What are the thoughts on increased power/torque through the outdrive? A few sites suggest that the torque is what kills the drives. Honestly, before I went for more power I'd go for another boat, unless we find this thing is just perfect for us other than power. My expectation is that we'll find it either works as-is or doesn't.

My real goal would be fuel injected LOP. Looks like on a Mercruiser 260 fuel consumption for normal cruise is 7-8 gph. I can do better. :D
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It'll work for a while. I've seen guys push as much as 400hp through an Alpha drive, though I wouldn't, there are Bravo as well as other aftermarket drives if you want more power.
 
JHW said:
I don't see ted in a 4-cylinder but there is no question that small families do just fine in sub-20ft boats with fuel efficient engines.
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A younger family we boat with has a Bayliner 17ft with the Merc 4-cylinder. Not fancy or high quality, but it gets them on the water every weekend at a price they can afford.
 
Jeff Oslick said:
by using the correct approach angle and pivoting the boat from the tie-off point to dock it.
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My wife still forgets how to do this every time I need to shoehorn the boat into a tight space. :mad2:

But yeah, a spring line amidships or a bow line secured will allow you to use power and the foot (steering) to snug the sucker right in. While you CAN muscle a small boat into position, you may as well allow physics and the boat to do it for you.
 
I was actually mostly joking about LOP. Aside from fuel injection, I agree that the best bet would be to just leave it stock and then change boats if we decide we want something different. Understood the SeaRay is built for comfort and not speed - comfort is really the goal anyway.

We're supposed to go check out that SeaRay I linked to this afternoon. Guy's family has owned it for 20 years. We'll see how it goes. Going to look as best I can at the transom and stringers, fiberglass for cracks/soft spots, and for cracks at joints. Check deck for firmness, and of course functionality of parts. We'll see how it all goes.

The intent would be to get a couple of uses in this season, maybe get an idea of what might be wanted over the winter, and then have some more fun next year.

If we don't like it, we'll keep looking.
 
Someone also asked where I was planning to go. Brookville Lake in Indiana is probably where we'd go mostly, at least for now. for small kids anyway that'll satisfy the fun, and make it easier to get in the water.
 
Is it worth surveying a smaller 20 to 25' boat to assure the hull is not a piece of junk?
 
AdamZ said:
Is it worth surveying a smaller 20 to 25' boat to assure the hull is not a piece of junk?
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I think you mean is it worth paying someone to survey it.:dunno: Depends what you know and can understand about materials and what they should sound like when you tap on them with a hard faced nylon mallet. For a small boat you can tell everything you need to know about the hull if you know or can figure out what you're listening to. You can also buy a moisture meter for less than the cost of the survey, they are simple to use, but sometimes not so simple to interpret.

Machinery survey... Again, depends what you know.

BTW, since you're operating on fresh water try to get magnesium anodes.
 
I figure for this I should be able to do a sufficient prebuy, especially given the goals. It'd be a different matter if I were looking at some of those bigger/more complex ones, it'd be different. Even though I don't have boat experience, I'm mechanical enough.
 
Ted DuPuis said:
I figure for this I should be able to do a sufficient prebuy, especially given the goals. It'd be a different matter if I were looking at some of those bigger/more complex ones, it'd be different. Even though I don't have boat experience, I'm mechanical enough.
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You're listening for dead sound (waterlogged coring, especially significant to check in the transom area surrounding and below the drive), or a hollow sound which is delamination. Check hull and cabin/cockpit sole and decks. Also check decks for any sponginess and give. That gets you all the biggie issues with the boat, then you have all the electrical components and steering components along with the drive that on this boat are dirt simple and you should have no problem evaluating.
 
Henning said:
I think you mean is it worth paying someone to survey it.:dunno: Depends what you know and can understand about materials and what they should sound like when you tap on them with a hard faced nylon mallet. For a small boat you can tell everything you need to know about the hull if you know or can figure out what you're listening to. You can also buy a moisture meter for less than the cost of the survey, they are simple to use, but sometimes not so simple to interpret.

Machinery survey... Again, depends what you know.

BTW, since you're operating on fresh water try to get magnesium anodes.
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Yes of course that's what I meant. If one can do it themselves, great, thats a no brainer.
 
AdamZ said:
Yes of course that's what I meant. If one can do it themselves, great, thats a no brainer.
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There's potentially more though. Borrowing money often requires a survey and sometimes (though rarely at these levels) so does the insurance if you decide to insure.
 
Henning said:
There's potentially more though. Borrowing money often requires a survey and sometimes (though rarely at these levels) so does the insurance if you decide to insure.
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True about the loan requirement. The only time I was considering it was on a potential purchase of a 27' sailboat many years ago.
 
Yeah, this would be cash purchase. Definitely wouldn't take a loan for a leisure item like this unless there was a good reason. Regardless, I'd make sure I was able to pay cash.
 
Henning said:
I really like the late model jet deck boats for running as the family tender. Typically we end up with a RIB version because it's like driving one big assed fender and you can have anyone drive it to shore and back without causing a bunch of damage docking up. All of this stuff is so expensive though. There are some older deck boats with outboards that take pumps on the leg. A 150 power head usually rates as 115 with a pump on the foot.
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Are you talking about these?

109670_0_070320091717_0.jpg


These always looked like the ultimate tender. Way better than the typical outboard version. I may be biased though as I am a long time Jet Ski fan. Does anybody still make a boat like this anymore?
 
Dav8or said:
Are you talking about these?

109670_0_070320091717_0.jpg


These always looked like the ultimate tender. Way better than the typical outboard version. I may be biased though as I am a long time Jet Ski fan. Does anybody still make a boat like this anymore?
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Basically yes, there are many outfittings and itterations, but that's the general concept. All the disadvantages of both a rigid hull and an inflatable one with none of the benefits.:rofl:
 
Dav8or said:
I can see there are some people still making jet tenders.

Jet_Tender_14.jpg



Made by Castoldi in Italy and this seems to be the smallest one at 14'. These cannot be inexpensive.

http://www.castoldijet.it/en/jettenders_en.html
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Williams has a nice 14' jet tender, and Avon has a 12'er that is specially made for the garage on the Sunseeker Predator 58-61' foot series that is completely insane to drive with negative helm stability at speed:rofl:. You have to not only hang on, you have to know when to let go.:lol:

BTW, I don't think that is 14', ehh, maybe.
 
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Well, bought the Sea Ray. Got a good price on it, everything worked, it was in good condition, and we liked it. Seemed like a good combination. I'm sure there's stuff wrong with it that I couldn't find or missed, but it really was quite clean.

We figure Sunday morning we'll pack some food and take her out on the water.
 
Ted DuPuis said:
Well, bought the Sea Ray. Got a good price on it, everything worked, it was in good condition, and we liked it. Seemed like a good combination. I'm sure there's stuff wrong with it that I couldn't find or missed, but it really was quite clean.

We figure Sunday morning we'll pack some food and take her out on the water.
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Don't forget to file a "float plan" so we know where to find ya...;)....:D
 
Ted DuPuis said:
Well, bought the Sea Ray. Got a good price on it, everything worked, it was in good condition, and we liked it. Seemed like a good combination. I'm sure there's stuff wrong with it that I couldn't find or missed, but it really was quite clean.

We figure Sunday morning we'll pack some food and take her out on the water.
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Wow, you weren't kidding about getting a boat. It rounds out your collection of internal combustion engines nicely.:) Congrads, let us know how you like it.
 
Ted DuPuis said:
Well, bought the Sea Ray. Got a good price on it, everything worked, it was in good condition, and we liked it. Seemed like a good combination. I'm sure there's stuff wrong with it that I couldn't find or missed, but it really was quite clean.

We figure Sunday morning we'll pack some food and take her out on the water.
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One of your two 'best days'. Congrats. :D

Take your time, if the boat ramp is busy come back later, or go somewhere else.

There's a hole with a metal sleeve on the bottom of the transom under the outdrive. There's a rubber or pipe fitting plug that goes in there. Before you launch.

Run the bilge blower before starting the engine, and when you are running below planing speed.

Life vest for each person on board. If anyone is not a swimmer, live vest is worn at all times.

Test the bilge pump with a hose in the engine bay before launching. It should move water rapidly out the hull, not just a drool.

A rock, or wood block behind the left front tire when launching may save you lots of money.

Use the sun shade.

Have fun!
 
N801BH said:
Don't forget to file a "float plan" so we know where to find ya...;)....:D
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Just look for the hole in the O-zone layer, you'll know where to find me. :D

Alexb2000 said:
Wow, you weren't kidding about getting a boat. It rounds out your collection of internal combustion engines nicely.:) Congrads, let us know how you like it.
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Will do! Looking forward to taking it to the water on Sunday.

docmirror said:
One of your two 'best days'. Congrats. :D

Take your time, if the boat ramp is busy come back later, or go somewhere else.

There's a hole with a metal sleeve on the bottom of the transom under the outdrive. There's a rubber or pipe fitting plug that goes in there. Before you launch.

Run the bilge blower before starting the engine, and when you are running below planing speed.

Life vest for each person on board. If anyone is not a swimmer, live vest is worn at all times.

Test the bilge pump with a hose in the engine bay before launching. It should move water rapidly out the hull, not just a drool.

A rock, or wood block behind the left front tire when launching may save you lots of money.

Use the sun shade.

Have fun!
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Thanks for the tips, will definitely follow. Conveniently, Jesse's going to be here this weekend, so he can laugh at me - er, help. We're figuring on going out Sunday morning, which should hopefully beat most traffic at the dock.

I appreciate all the advice and ideas, it helped us come to the conclusion of which boat we wanted for the moment, and most importantly the questions to ask and the things to look for. I fully expect that I'll find problems and things that need fixed, but that's part of the deal.

I'm taking delivery on Saturday morning. It was getting to be around dinner time looking at it today, and so we figured it would make more sense to just get it all finished up on Saturday morning. Plus we needed to put the road cover on it, etc., and load up all the stuff he was including. We're also getting the ropes, bumpers, some life jackets, etc. He came down a hair on price, and I didn't push hard as I was happy with the deal.

Will be sure to report after first time on the water. :)
 
Congratulations! Have some serious fun! I would also add to the list-

Do not start the engine and engage the drive without first remembering to lower the drive and do not forget to raise the drive before pulling the boat out of the water! The whole out drive thing is kind of like the landing gear for airplanes.
 
Ted DuPuis said:
Well, bought the Sea Ray. Got a good price on it, everything worked, it was in good condition, and we liked it. Seemed like a good combination. I'm sure there's stuff wrong with it that I couldn't find or missed, but it really was quite clean.

We figure Sunday morning we'll pack some food and take her out on the water.
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Everyboat has problems, have fun.
 
Dav8or said:
Congratulations! Have some serious fun! I would also add to the list-

Do not start the engine and engage the drive without first remembering to lower the drive and do not forget to raise the drive before pulling the boat out of the water! The whole out drive thing is kind of like the landing gear for airplanes.
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The don't start the engine with the unit trimmed up is a hard rule, you will destroy the U-joint quickly, that and hard over high power turns. Gear doesn't matter, you spin the joint with the engine. Yes, fun, yes, hard on equipment. Maybe you can build a CV joint to replace it.;)

The trim up before coming out of the water though doesn't always work. There's a lot of times I have to push the car/truck with the boat to get it all moving up the ramp. You kinda have to play that one best you can with heavier boats.
 
Ted DuPuis said:
We're figuring on going out Sunday morning, which should hopefully beat most traffic at the dock.
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Ted, congrats!!! We love it, hope you do to! If the weather holds, we'll be out both tomorrow and Sunday after church.

And yes, Sunday morning while a lot of folks are in church is a good bet. If your lake is anything like ours, Sunday around 1pm becomes very busy, our lake is busiest on Sunday afternoons.
 
Good tips. 4x4 truck ought to help with pulling out of the water, but we'll see.

Looking forward to getting started. Yep, they all have problems, just like a plane. this one being quite clean was very positive.

Also, it's an all-fiberglass hull. Seemed like a positive, and couldn't find any indications of problems. Claimed to have NDH. :)

Oh, and it gets worse mileage than the 310. :D
 
Ted DuPuis said:
Good tips. 4x4 truck ought to help with pulling out of the water, but we'll see.

Looking forward to getting started. Yep, they all have problems, just like a plane. this one being quite clean was very positive.

Also, it's an all-fiberglass hull. Seemed like a positive, and couldn't find any indications of problems. Claimed to have NDH. :)

Oh, and it gets worse mileage than the 310. :D
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LOL! WAY worse. This boat gets less MPG than a 777.:rofl:
 
Ted DuPuis said:
Also, it's an all-fiberglass hull. Seemed like a positive, and couldn't find any indications of problems. Claimed to have NDH. :)

Oh, and it gets worse mileage than the 310. :D
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I thought Searay's of that era where fiberglass with bonded plywood transoms and stringers?

I used to full up my Baja with twin 502's back when premium was $1 a gallon and cringe. Years of airplane ownership would have me dancing at the pumps now!:lol:
 
Alexb2000 said:
I thought Searay's of that era where fiberglass with bonded plywood transoms and stringers?

I used to full up my Baja with twin 502's back when premium was $1 a gallon and cringe. Years of airplane ownership would have me dancing at the pumps now!:lol:
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That was the transitional materials period for Sea Ray, but yes, it likely has a plywood transom still with foam core on the sides, and likely bottom. The engine bed stringers should be solid wood with glass laminated over.
 
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