There ARE people who shouldn't hand prop

JHW

JHW

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Jeff Wright
I've always been one of those thick-headed types that didn't really get why folks think hand propping is a big deal.

but I now understand

this evening I landed and shut down at the fuel pumps, got a coke out of the machine while I waited for my wife & kids to show up so I could take them home. A couple of clean-cut looking kids, maybe 18, showed up and proceeded to pre-flight a 172. It seemed very "thorough but rehearsed" in a typical part-141 sort of way. Then one got in the left seat and the other proceeded to attempt to hand prop the engine. I was a long way away but I could tell at a glance he was never going to get it going.

I finished my coke and they were still at it, so i went over and told him if he'd get in the plane I'd get him going. By then he looked pretty tired tired, he looked grateful and got in. I stuck my head in the window and instructed them what I wanted them to do and set the throttle & mixture where I wanted them. Then I walked around to the prop and was about to give it a pull when they started waving at me. I went back to the window and he mentioned that I might want to stand on the other side, the way he had been doing. I told him that no, I wanted to pull down on the prop and with that big fat cowling I really needed to be in front since I'm no gymnast. He said yes, he was pulling down on the prop too.

He then proceeded to lecture me that moving a propeller by hand could be dangerous, and that his school taught them that if they must turn the prop to always turn it backwards. He seemed quite pleased to have taught me something. He must have been the CFI in that pair.

I thanked him for the advice, rechecked the control settings and the brakes, then got him started on the 2nd pull (although I have to admit I used my unsafe-rotation-direction technique). As I sit here now, I wonder if he is sitting at his home marveling at the guy he met out in the sticks who insisted on being old-fashioned instead of adopting newer, safer practices.
 
Let me get this straight. He was trying to start it by turning the prop backwards!?

Hello Mr. Future Statistic.
 
CJones said:
Let me get this straight. He was trying to start it by turning the prop backwards!?

Hello Mr. Future Statistic.
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Well, he'd probably grown up playing with those rubber-band-powered balsa airplanes, and that IS how you get it going, right?

Dan
 
JHW said:
He then proceeded to lecture me that moving a propeller by hand could be dangerous, and that his school taught them that if they must turn the prop to always turn it backwards. He seemed quite pleased to have taught me something.
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hahah that is too funny. I'm all for people learning how to fly and all, but forget handpropping, this kid shouldn't be flying in the first place.

I mean, yeah, it's true. You should turn it backwards when you don't want the prop to slice your arm off. They would have been there all night, haha, they would have probably squawked the plane too.


Props.
 
This is what happens when you have people who learn being being told what an answer is and not why something works.

Far too many people do not question the thought that went into something they just shrug their shoulders and say well that is what I have been told. We run into all kinds like that, many are especially suited to be in the TSA.
 
smigaldi said:
This is what happens when you have people who learn being being told what an answer is and not why something works.

Far too many people do not question the thought that went into something they just shrug their shoulders and say well that is what I have been told. We run into all kinds like that, many are especially suited to be in the TSA.
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Indeed. I chalk this one up to the same folks that believe:

1) Never slip a 172 with full flaps
2) Hotstarts of a fuel injected engine are impossible
3) R-Airspace requires permission to enter even when cold
4) IFR Aircraft are separated from VFR aircraft in VMC
5) Flying the step actually works
6) Straight ins are bad practice in all cases

And a few more. Lazy CFIs begetting lazy CFIs. Sad cycle.
 
I'm not sure I would have trusted the pair to stay on the brakes and not open the throttle...
 
SkyHog said:
Indeed. I chalk this one up to the same folks that believe:

4) IFR Aircraft are separated from VFR aircraft in VMC
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I believe IFR Aircraft are separated from VFR aircraft in VMC in Class B and Class C airspace.
 
steingar said:
I though 172's had starters?
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They do, but they sometimes don't work. If the battery is low (someone left the master switch on or the battery is just too old), if the starter's bendix drive is sticky (it didn't get lubricated properly with the right stuff once in a while), if the starter motor itself is shot, or the master and/or starter solenoid contacts are corroded or burnt, it won't start. Everything in the system has to be in reasonable working order. There's even an AD against certain magneto switches (ACS) because their start contacts burn out.
Hand propping can be done safely if the propper knows what he's doing. For the uninitiated it can be deadly.

Dan
 
Dan Thomas said:
For the uninitiated it can be deadly.
Dan
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I think the only chance of 'deadly results' that these two bozos had was a chance of dieing from exhaustion from spinning the prop backwards to try to get it to start. :yes: :D

You are correct, though, some things SHOULD be taught rather than learned the 'hard' way.
 
steingar said:
Isn't it better to just get the airplane fixed?
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Yes. However, on a recent trip with my C-172, we lost electrical power and landed at a field where there was no mechanic and all attempts to find one who would come to us failed. Hubby has been trained to hand-prop our bird and we flew, using pure pilotage, about 30 miles to an airport with a mechanic.
 
steingar said:
Isn't it better to just get the airplane fixed?
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True but knowing how to hand prop an airplane is like knowing how to change a flat tire on your car.

It will allow you to get the vehical to where it can easily be fixed. Or you can call a tow truck.

Brian
 
The first two years of flying I flew planes with no starters and the flight school actually had "propping classes" that were mandatory and there was a final exam. I never attempted a nose wheeled plane for the angle of the blades did not feel right so I would not touch them.

John J
 
John J said:
The first two years of flying I flew planes with no starters and the flight school actually had "propping classes" that were mandatory and there was a final exam. I never attempted a nose wheeled plane for the angle of the blades did not feel right so I would not touch them.

John J
Click to expand...

One of my first areas of 'training' when working with cropdusters was learning how to hand-prop my boss's 1947 PA-11. We were running turbine air tractors, so we weren't learning how to hand-prop so we could start the spray planes (although apparently they used to hand-prop the 300hp Cessna Ag Wagon's while standing on a 5-gallon bucket to be able to reach the prop :hairraise:) - it was more of a lesson on how to act around airplanes and to determine how comfortable and respectful I was around moving parts.

Oh, and as a gift for 'passing' the training, I got to start my tailwheel sign-off in said plane. Unfortunately, I never got around to finishing it with him. :(
 
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