the road to my (your?) own LearJet

Discussion in 'Flight Following' started by JGalt, Aug 10, 2014.

  1. denverpilot

    denverpilot Taxi to Parking

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    The opposite, actually.
     
  2. N747JB

    N747JB Final Approach

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    FTFY
    Don't feel bad, while the Bugs Bunny generation may not be as great as our WWII parents and grandparents, we are light years ahead of the current group of 15 year old Internet heroes! :D
    But, honestly, this thread has been fun, most trolls aren't this persistent. ;)
     
  3. skynewbie

    skynewbie Pre-takeoff checklist

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    Nah what's up doc? I prefer macaroons to maroons but JG is tracking wild wascal wabitts as Elmer Fudd would say.

    Anyways the toughest crosswind I've landed in as a new pilot was 22kts gusting to 25 in a Piper and that was plenty challenging 'nuff for me but hey John Galt is a gifted mensch so I say go for it. Still if I had his bankroll I'd just get my ratings in an L39 jet than a big Lear. To me it would be way more fun!
     
  4. Luigi

    Luigi Pre-takeoff checklist

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    And flying a PC computer based flight program isn't fantasizing? Micturition head! :goofy:
     
    Last edited: Aug 17, 2014
  5. N53KL

    N53KL Pre-takeoff checklist

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    :yes: and many here wish you were from the current generation (new silent) :D
     
  6. John Galt

    John Galt Pre-Flight

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    You're also into Bugs Bunny? Funny, I figured you more for a Teletubbies fan. My favorite was Tinky Winky. How about you?

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Aug 18, 2014
  7. John Galt

    John Galt Pre-Flight

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    I would like to take the opportunity to summarize where we are and then we can all move on to other discussions. I realize that right now the spotlight is on me, and I am a very fascinating individual whose skills and talents have probably not been equaled before in POA and so there is a lot of attention being paid on me. Sadly there are way too few natural aviators such as myself, aviators who live and breathe flying to the point where training becomes superfluous.

    Just this morning I was able to recover my Lear 24 from a flat inverted spin. I astounded even myself with my prodigious abilities.

    I do understand that I am required to have certain qualifications to remain legal and so will ensure I get those in the minimum legal time.

    Thanks again for your adulation and support.
     
  8. Henning

    Henning Ejection Handle Pulled

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    PFlemming... :rofl:
     
  9. Dead Stick

    Dead Stick Line Up and Wait

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    They say if you jerk off too much you'll go blind. I'd be careful if I were you.
     
  10. John Galt

    John Galt Pre-Flight

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    What?

    :eek:

    You are an incredibly rude individual, do you know that?

    :mad:
     
  11. N747JB

    N747JB Final Approach

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  12. skynewbie

    skynewbie Pre-takeoff checklist

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    No JG I'm more of an anime fan actually. You just had me figured as an Elmer Fudd kinda guy lol.
     
  13. Henning

    Henning Ejection Handle Pulled

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    Interesting. I wonder what they are thinking for a number on the 880 or the pair. I seriously doubt anything near $600k would be a considered offer. I wonder why Graceland is selling them off. I think they are hoping someone is going to come up with stupid level money due to the provenance, and it might, his fan demographic includes some real rich collectors who can drop $5 million on it and $5 million to get it flying, or stick it in a museum.

    More likely we'll hear about it hitting one of the big luxury market auction houses.
     
  14. John Galt

    John Galt Pre-Flight

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    Very interesting. Yes, that would be very fitting for me to own the plane that transported The King. Just the thought of that brings a tear to my eye, what a glorious validation that would be for me and triumphant announcement of my official arrival into the non-virtual aviation world after my complete and undisputed owning of the simulated aviation world.

    This is a magnificent way to end this thread. There will now be no more discussion on this topic. Everything that needed to be said has now been said. I regret that most of what many of you have said has been ignored due to the lack of value or any kind of intelligent reasoning behind your comments. However with time and with your association with higher quality individuals like myself eventually some of it may rub off on you.

    Administrators please lock this thread.

    Thank you.
     
  15. B350ATP

    B350ATP Pre-takeoff checklist

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    John, good luck with your struggles
     
  16. FastEddieB

    FastEddieB Final Approach

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    I have nothing to say on this topic, which was manufactured for the sole purpose of stirring things up.

    But I don't like to be told by some obvious troll when I can enter a discussion.

    Discuss.
     
  17. B350ATP

    B350ATP Pre-takeoff checklist

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    I think internet forums are a place for many, suffering from mental illness, to express themselves and vent.
     
  18. Old Geek

    Old Geek Pattern Altitude

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    I can get you a great deal on Carrie Grant's Lodestar. It does need a little work though...
     
  19. Flymeariver

    Flymeariver Pattern Altitude

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    So how many more pages will this thread go?
     
  20. Swampfox201

    Swampfox201 Line Up and Wait

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    ::goes in thread, looks around, runs away::


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
  21. Mason

    Mason Pattern Altitude

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    Cary.
     
  22. Luigi

    Luigi Pre-takeoff checklist

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    This John is a supercilious wannabe. Or, as Bugs would say, an absolute maroon.
     
  23. txflyer

    txflyer En-Route

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    Fly it like you STOL it ♦
  24. Lindberg

    Lindberg Pattern Altitude

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    Apology accepted.
     
  25. mtuomi

    mtuomi En-Route

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    I'm starting to believe Pflemming/Jgalt/Hocky etc are a moderator here. There is no decently moderated forum in the world where an obvious single-source troll would be allowed to mess around this long.

    Come on mods, fix it.
     
  26. John Galt

    John Galt Pre-Flight

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    I will tolerate no more posts on this thread. The next poster will be banned. You have been warned.
     
  27. Pedals2Paddles

    Pedals2Paddles Cleared for Takeoff

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  28. JGalt

    JGalt Filing Flight Plan

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    Wow...I havent looked at this thread in more than a week and looks like the majority of the discussion went downhill pretty fast.

    Its odd that so many of you are presumably aircraft and flying enthusiasts but when someone else shows interest in it, suddenly they are a troll because its a jet or because its a very complex and expensive process. Even more amazing is your lack of awareness of how obviously threatened you must be to react that way. This goes above and beyond even the worst youtube comments I've read. Even the high school kids know when they are just sounding butt hurt and ego bruised.

    Would you tell the same things you are telling me to your son or daughter who sees a jet and says they want their own and want to fly it? Would you say things like "not happening" to their face? Why would you tell an adult that who has a much better chance of making it happen?

    My goal is to own and operate my own jet. If I have to explain that to anyone, then maybe you don't really like planes or flying and should question your career and hobby choices. Maybe I'll hate a small jet for some reason, but I'm betting I'd like it. I don't have to have all the answers or know all my reactions to something to discuss it on a forum.

    I can't imagine why anyone could see LearJet's going for $75k and not at least daydream about the possibilities, especially if you are already a pilot and fly, but I guess some of you are just dead inside or so bigoted that your plane and your piloting experience are the only ways that make sense. Maybe if you didn't see yourselves as so limited you wouldn't be so apparently bitter about other peoples dreams of flight.

    Now to be fair, there have been several people in this thread who have provided thoughtful information and I greatly appreciate it. You are what makes the internet worthwhile. All forums have different ratios of you to the "junk". If you want to see nearly 100% junk check out the Jeep and Corvette forums.

    So, I've done a little more thinking, and not much more research. I had an epiphany basically.

    What I want here is to somehow get it so I can own my own jet and fly it fairly regularly. And I'd like to do it as safely, quickly, and inexpensively as possible. The old discount LearJet's may have gotten my attention, but it does sadly seem like they may not be the optimum way to accomplish this. I dont like how they look with the hush kits, and the insane fuel burn rates really bug me. It does seem pretty realistic that they would quickly become more expensive than buying a modern jet would be at a higher price tag initially. No, I have not done the full calculations. Or maybe with passengers its a wash. I dont know. But that argument seems pretty solid.

    Its too bad because the huge climb rate is exciting (6800ft/min), and the speed (545mph) and altitude (51k?) are pretty awesome. I find it a little hard to believe that all the old LearJets are literally going to be crushed and turned into soda cans unless you put on the hush kits or pay insane fuel rates. I bet someone will figure out a way to breathe new life into them (engine swaps?).

    That said, what I'm trying to do here has actually been done many times. What it really is is simple starting your own private jet charter company. The difference is that I'm saying I want to start it before I'm even a pilot. But other than that, the costs and complexity is pretty much the same. Its the same thing. You can make a profit chartering a jet, obviously, so this apparently can work out.

    The silver lining to all this is that I would be shooting for just paying off the jet and the training, and not really beyond that. Lets say its $1mil for the jet (Epic Victory?) and $200k for the training and everything else.

    So now you have a jet, your legal to fly passengers in it, and you owe the bank $1.2mil.

    To pay it off you start flying people. I'll make up some more numbers: you charge your passengers an average of $5000 for a cross country flight. You make lets say $2500 profit. So you need about 500 flights to pay it all off. Throw in a fudge factor of 2..so lets say 1000 flights.

    So if we assume $1.2mil gets you a VLJ/MicroJet and training, can you make it back in 1000 flights as a private jet charter company? Thats the real question here. "Business plan for starting your own private jet company using a VLJ/Microjet".
     
  29. dans2992

    dans2992 En-Route

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    You need an FAA part 135 operating certificate to do this. There are lots of requirements. It's a major headache/paperwork nightmare.

    Easier way to reduce costs would be to get a partner.
     
  30. dukeblue219

    dukeblue219 Line Up and Wait

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    This isn't like running a lemonade stand. You don't just buy $5 worth of lemons and sell $10 worth of lemonade and have $5 left over as profit.

    You'll need to hire staff. You'll have substantial legal, regulatory, and insurance costs. You'll need realistic numbers for operating costs, customer acquisition, maintenance, and so forth. It's not something you are going to do as the owner, operator, and sole pilot with no experience in the field.

    Of course you can make money flying jet charters. You just have to look at it as a large, capital-intensive business with high barriers to entry. It's not something you do to pay off your personal flying.

    But then, I shouldn't continue to feed this thread...
     
  31. KSMooniac

    KSMooniac Pre-takeoff checklist

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    The story I read some weeks ago is that the planes are NOT owned by Graceland or Elvis Presley Enterprises or whatever entity controls that place. The planes were parked there under mutual agreement some years ago to offer fans a chance to see them as a part of Elvis's Graceland exhibit, and in my opinion, that is the proper place for them.

    Fast forward to current times, the Graceland owners have decided that the real estate being used by the planes will be more profitable as a hotel (and maybe casino?) and thus the planes are getting the boot. Quite a shame, really.

    Hopefully they will survive the next transportation and get a good refurb and new home somewhere. It would be hard to reproduce that much gaudy interior today, and I'd hate to see it go away lest we forget. :D
     
  32. lr60plt

    lr60plt Pre-takeoff checklist

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    Lear 35's are barely chartering anymore...there is definitely no market for a 25. Not to mention it would be a maintenance nightmare. Every time you fly, things will break. A 25 will need anywhere from 50 to 250,000 in maintenance each year. Here are some other yearly figures:

    Hangar: 24,000
    Pilot Salaries: 150,000
    Training: ~30,000
    Insurance: 15,000
    Staff to run a Charter Company: ???

    So lets say you have a year with 150k in MX. That's $369,000 total costs. Lets say fuel and engine reserve is 1500 bucks and it goes out at 2200 an hour. A decent charter plane will do 300-400 hours a year, a 25 will not. Lets say you have a great year and do 200hrs....that means you bring in 140k from charter. You are still 229,000 short. You would have to do 527 hours to even break even which a 25 will never do.

    But again even if you did buy one, refurb it, go through the long and expensive process of forming a charter company.....no one is going to charter a 25, it will simply become a huge expense.
     
  33. Henning

    Henning Ejection Handle Pulled

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    Hotel/Casino sounds likely, so I guess whomever the owner of the planes is doesn't want to deal with moving them?:dunno:
     
  34. Henning

    Henning Ejection Handle Pulled

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    You posted in this thread yesterday....

    Your best bet to getting in a jet and flying it is going to be one of the Epic jets. It will be a while before you qualify to fly passengers in a charter service with it which is fine because you'll need the time for charter insurability as well, you'll need 1500hrs.

    Many many many people have done exactly what you want to do. 99% went broke doing it. Lot more to the charter business than having a plane and flying it. You have to get clients, and more importantly you have to retain clients. That means no unscheduled down time. It's also going to take a bit to get a Pt 135 Air Taxi Operator certificate, including commercial/charter insurance.
     
  35. Mason

    Mason Pattern Altitude

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    THIS might be credible regarding the planes.
     
  36. Henning

    Henning Ejection Handle Pulled

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    :rofl: Now things are starting to make sense. If they really do want that property for a hotel/casino this could be interesting. Could just build the casino around the planes. Stranger accommodations can be seen in Manhattan.
     
  37. ateamer

    ateamer Line Up and Wait

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    Troy Martin, is that you?
     
  38. noobJohn

    noobJohn Pre-takeoff checklist

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    Fix what? This thread is awesome. If it fails to amuse you, don't click on it.

    I too have eyeballed the old jets and daydreamed. If the originator is to be believed he has the $$$ to put one back in the air. I say go for it! You only go around once. I've never bothered looking into the details or costs but I know if it was even halfway "practical" or affordable more people would be going it.

     
  39. Henning

    Henning Ejection Handle Pulled

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    These threads are fine. Yes, everyone day dreams about a jet, and there are always changes in the readers and the market that make these threads informative because people with direct knowledge of current reality speak up, and are entertaining because people with mental health issues speak up. :lol:
     
  40. CTLSi

    CTLSi Ejection Handle Pulled

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    Epic is bankrupt and sued out of existence. A Russian company bought it and says they are gonna only produce the Epic E1000 turpoprop and certify it. Thats supposed to happen next month. The only way to get an Epic jet is to buy one that has no support used.
     
    Last edited: Aug 20, 2014