The real entry-level jobs are disappearing

To the OP-

Have you considered trying to get a job as a drone pilot? It's an expanding field in aviation and the fact that you have a PPL is a big plus. They actually want their pilots to be real pilots as well and give them stipends to go get training. The one drone pilot I have met, his company paid for him to get his PPL, IR and continues to subsidize his real flying. He makes enough that he was considering buying a Bonanza last I heard.

The downside to his job is that he is a contractor to the US military, so he gets deployed like military. He has to go and work in lame places for extended periods. Family life is similar to what the military guys have to do.
 
That's the difference between McDonalds and Carl's Jr. Nearly 30 years ago when I was first getting in the yacht business I did some day work on Joan Kroc's yacht, and she was a very nice lady. We had a talk one day about McDonalds and she said that "McDonalds is not a food business, McDonalds is a real estate business that uses food to pay for it." That is the thing about McDonalds,if you prove a good employee, they will give you franchises, and they have a pretty well developed talent spotting and development system.
The Carl's Jr quote was from Idiocracy (as well as the Costco reference).

Having been in fast food a bit, I have pretty much no desire to work in management of a store. Mostly because the people you end up having to hire are not the best employees or the most reliable. There was a lot of pressure to work off the clock for those who were in management positions and come in after 40 hours. If people couldn't follow the most simple instructions to stock two and only two dates of milk at once and at least -look- at the dates on the shelf, they would not want to work for me as a store manager.

During the tornado outbreak that started last May (like a small handful of houses destroyed outside of Shawnee), employees just up and walked out of the store "to go help". We had the busiest night ever and had 3 people total - one on grill, one on drive through, and one on front counter. It was an absolute nightmare and two days from my 2 week notice that no one else in the entire time I worked there even bothered to give.
 
To the OP-

Have you considered trying to get a job as a drone pilot? It's an expanding field in aviation and the fact that you have a PPL is a big plus. They actually want their pilots to be real pilots as well and give them stipends to go get training. The one drone pilot I have met, his company paid for him to get his PPL, IR and continues to subsidize his real flying. He makes enough that he was considering buying a Bonanza last I heard.

The downside to his job is that he is a contractor to the US military, so he gets deployed like military. He has to go and work in lame places for extended periods. Family life is similar to what the military guys have to do.

My dad was saying that a company in CA was hiring sensor operators for drone stuff and that all that was required was a high school diploma. My dad met a guy from their company in a hotel laundromat in Salt Lake City and got me in touch with him, but when I asked for details he just stopped talking to me overall. Said he could get my resume on top of the stack and never delivered. I hear the branches are seriously hurting for drone pilots but I tried AFROTC and I don't think the military is for me.

That sounds like a pretty sweet deal though, with the training. I never found the idea of shooting at someone from a drone to be... sporting? Probably the wrong word for it. I think homeland security operates some that patrol the border, that'd be kind of interesting too.
 
To the OP-

Have you considered trying to get a job as a drone pilot? It's an expanding field in aviation and the fact that you have a PPL is a big plus. They actually want their pilots to be real pilots as well and give them stipends to go get training. The one drone pilot I have met, his company paid for him to get his PPL, IR and continues to subsidize his real flying. He makes enough that he was considering buying a Bonanza last I heard.

The downside to his job is that he is a contractor to the US military, so he gets deployed like military. He has to go and work in lame places for extended periods. Family life is similar to what the military guys have to do.
How many of these positions are available? What is the ratio of civilian to military backgrounds?

Military is always a pretty solid route into aviation if you meet the criteria at the time they are looking. All in all they have the largest and youngest bunch of pilots with superlative training in both fleets, manned and unmanned. There are other factors involved that you may or may not choose to accept like killing and increasing the risk of being killed.
 
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So you're staying two of them found the porn on the CEOs laptop and the other caught a Board member cheating in a bathroom?

LOL. ;)

Nate, could you move a little to the left, you're stepping on one of my buttons! :D
 
Having been in fast food a bit, I have pretty much no desire to work in management of a store. Mostly because the people you end up having to hire are not the best employees or the most reliable.


Now, now. Certain politicians say those folk are worth a "living wage". You aren't allowed to point out that they're awful employees. That's against the agenda. :)

Nate, could you move a little to the left, you're stepping on one of my buttons! :D


LOL!!! :) :) :)
 
So you're staying two of them found the porn on the CEOs laptop and the other caught a Board member cheating in a bathroom?

LOL. ;)

Thread drift: it was noted today that Washington, D.C. Has the most "hacked" (virus laden) computers in the country. It was also noted that pornography is the most common way of infecting computers. You draw the conclusion.
 
Now, now. Certain politicians say those folk are worth a "living wage". You aren't allowed to point out that they're awful employees. That's against the agenda. :)

I can say with certainty that I was the only person in the whole store the time I worked there that actually paid attention to detail or took their job seriously. Probably because I didn't know better, but still. I can't imagine having to manage and rely on those kinds of people. The number that just didn't show up for work or showed up late or just hung out on their phones was mind boggling.

My first night on the job with no fast food experience was being thrown onto a register and completely forgotten about for 4 hours because the store was busy. I just tried to think like the average person who would be forced to use it and managed basically fine until they noticed me. No orientation, no training, no safety stuff, nothing.
 
I hear the branches are seriously hurting for drone pilots but I tried AFROTC and I don't think the military is for me.

That sounds like a pretty sweet deal though, with the training. I never found the idea of shooting at someone from a drone to be... sporting?

It's not as bad as actually being in the military. They just the company when and where they need you. You work next to the military, but not directly for them. There is no boot camp. The guy I met that flies drones was never in the military and they would never have him. He probably weighs near 400 lbs and has a bit of a self righteous attitude.

The vast, vast majority of drones never shoot at anybody. I'm certain the guy I know never shot at anyone. Armed drones are a tiny minority. The bulk is just surveillance. I'm not sure how, or who to contact, but I would continue trying if it were me and I were single.
 
How many of these positions are available? What is the ratio of civilian to military backgrounds?

Military is always a pretty solid route into aviation if you meet the criteria at the time they are looking. All in all they have the largest and youngest bunch of pilots with superlative training in both fleets, manned and unmanned. There are other factors involved that you may or may not choose to accept like killing and increasing the risk of being killed.

All I know about it is from the guy I met that was out there doing it for several years now. I don't really know how many positions are available, but when I spoke to him, he said they were looking and with every government agency in the world looking for their own drone program, I can't see it shrinking.

Like I said above, this guy never killed anyone directly. He may have supplied info that led to killing, be he wasn't the guy. The closest he's ever come to being killed was the last cheeseburger he ate.
 
You provide the words for me to work.


I provide the words, you misread and misunderstand them and reply, if only you were one quarter as smart as you think you are.

How's that kickstarter coming? Talk is cheap, actions speak volumes, which are you all talk, or action?
 
I provide the words, you misread and misunderstand them and reply, if only you were one quarter as smart as you think you are.

How's that kickstarter coming? Talk is cheap, actions speak volumes, which are you all talk, or action?

Still dealing with Amazon by Fax.:mad2:
 
Automation and wage race to the bottom are the culprits. Most american corporations have sent most of their jobs overseas where they pay slave labor wages and no benefits. There are few regulations so the workers live in dormitory of thousands making fourty bucks a month. ( no health insurance, lousy health care. ) In China most wear masks in the large city's due to air pollution, on and on, including buildings collapsing due to shoddy construction, killing thousands of workers. While these same american corporations try to escape paying any U.S. Taxes, ( many do not pay ANY!) they would certainly expect the U.S. To come to their immediate aid should their overseas facility's be attacked or in any way harmed! My parents survived the depression as did millions of others including of course Ronnie Reagans family with help from the U.S. Government. ( his father and brother both were on the dole during the entire depression.)

+1 and we can blame corporations (the 1%) for screwing the middle class. They may claim their taxes are too high, but in reality taxes are far lower than they were 50 years ago. Still, many companies, like Apple, have moved their headquarters (well, a shell headquarters) overseas to Ireland to avoid paying their share.
 
+1 and we can blame corporations (the 1%) for screwing the middle class. They may claim their taxes are too high, but in reality taxes are far lower than they were 50 years ago. Still, many companies, like Apple, have moved their headquarters (well, a shell headquarters) overseas to Ireland to avoid paying their share.

Explain how the corporations "screwed" the middle class please.
 
By taking the money they spent out of the US economy and building the Chinese consumer economy with it.

You need to try again, that doesn't make sense..... "By taking the money they spent out of the US economy".
 
You need to try again, that doesn't make sense..... "By taking the money they spent out of the US economy".

The middle class and welfare class hand these people money for the junk they have been convinced by their media arm they need to have. The profits made by the big multinationals do not get reinvested into the US economy. They get reinvested in the Chinese economy because there is far much more capability for expansion in consumer spending.

Consumerism is a Ponzi scheme. If it does not continue to grow, it instantly collapses. That is why Nixon went to China, to grow the consumer base 300%. Our economy is being drained of everything it possibly can without creating a revolution.
 
By what law, regulation, or executive order does any corporation owe it to you libs to make less money?

When a corporation follows the law and manages to reduce their tax burden, what right do you libs have to demand they not do so?

Other than return the investment of stockholders, what obligation do corporations have to please you libs?
When government constantly reduces the buying power of the middle class, thru regulation and outright theft, why do you libs stand around and nod?
 
The middle class and welfare class hand these people money for the junk they have been convinced by their media arm they need to have. The profits made by the big multinationals do not get reinvested into the US economy. They get reinvested in the Chinese economy because there is far much more capability for expansion in consumer spending.

Consumerism is a Ponzi scheme. If it does not continue to grow, it instantly collapses. That is why Nixon went to China, to grow the consumer base 300%. Our economy is being drained of everything it possibly can without creating a revolution.

That is the silliest thing I think you've ever written.

Capital always flows to the lowest expense. Why? Because consumers, when given a choice between equal products, will always buy the less expensive product.

Defy that immutable rule, and go out of business. It's the basis of capitalism, and is what has given us the highest standard of living in world history.

Corporations didn't "want" to move production to China. They were forced to do so, or die.
 
This is not an immutable fact, this is a choice driven by greed. We could just as easily chose to get the most benefit from every bit of resource. It's just a choice. Capitalism assigns all the value to something that has no value.
 
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This is not an immutable fact, this is a choice driven by greed. We could just as easily chose to get the most benefit from every bit of resource. It's just a choice. Capitalism assigns all the value to something that has no value.

I'm sure that will work.

You take "Francine", who owns a nail salon in the inner city of Houston. Her air conditioner fails, and she needs a new one.

Her choices are the American-made one (for $400), or the equivalent Chinese-made one (for $250).

She has $500 in her business account, and her payroll taxes are due next week. If she doesn't replace her air conditioner, no customers will sit in the sweltering heat while she files their nails.

Which air conditioner is she going to buy? :rolleyes2:

Multiply times 87 million Francines. That is the American economy. That is enlightened self-interest. That's how capitalism rewards efficiency, and flushes out inefficiency.

Welcome to the real world. You should have taken the blue pill.
 
Wow, you didn't teach your children self restraint, self control? WTF?.

just out of curiosity, how many children have raised from delivery room to self reliance, and how are they doing now?

Didn't think so.
 
Also Henning, regarding the comment that McDonalds and Walmart are good companies to work for, have you ever worked for either? And if so, when?
 
Also Henning, regarding the comment that McDonalds and Walmart are good companies to work for, have you ever worked for either? And if so, when?

I didn't say they were good companies to work for, I said they provide great opportunity to advance in the money making corporate ladder. I don't play the game so I don't need to work jobs like that. I don't need a steady income because I have no debt to service and I don't need endlessly more stuff.
 
This is not an immutable fact, this is a choice driven by greed. We could just as easily chose to get the most benefit from every bit of resource. It's just a choice. Capitalism assigns all the value to something that has no value.

Capitalism is system of barter that works best with minimal regulation and is easily upset when the parasitic affects of government gain the upper hand.

You keep coming up with these idealistic platitudes that have no basis in reality and won't work.

Here's one for instance: "We could just as easily chose (sic) to get the most benefit from every bit of resource.".... What does that even mean? If I build a product here that has many levels of parts built by different companies, then require only US manufacturers be used, ignoring labor costs I am still in the hole because each one of those companies must build 35%+ corporate taxes into the price which then gets rolled up into the final price making me uncompetitive. I find a way around that issue or I am forced to close up shop, it's a simple economic decision, not some conspiracy to steal the poor people's money.

Another favorite of yours is equally unworkable, the mantra that we extract all energy and capture all water produced by burning gasoline or whatever. A noble thought until you apply some basic engineering to it and realize it is ridiculous. Capturing water, if you somehow solve the latent heat issue to condense the water at the rate produced in a limited area without consuming additional energy, becomes a problem quickly. About 7 pounds of water is produced for each pound of gas burned. So for 10 gallons of gas burned you , assuming you do the impossible and figure out how to condense water out as discussed, would get about 420 pounds of water that you would have to store, carry around and unload, very impractical. Especially if you consider that you would also be trapping some very undesirable byproducts of combustion as you collected your water.

Capitalism will sell anything that has value to someone willing to buy it. In capitalism no one holds a gun to your head and forces you to spend your money. It is all by choice and you face the consequences of your choices, some of those consequences good, some not so good if you make unwise choices.
 
I didn't say they were good companies to work for, I said they provide great opportunity to advance in the money making corporate ladder. I don't play the game so I don't need to work jobs like that. I don't need a steady income because I have no debt to service and I don't need endlessly more stuff.

So you are not working to your full potential to work, a little hypocritical to the BS you have been spewing for the past week or so don't you think?
 
Capitalism is system of barter that works best with minimal regulation and is easily upset when the parasitic affects of government gain the upper hand.

You keep coming up with these idealistic platitudes that have no basis in reality and won't work.

Here's one for instance: "We could just as easily chose (sic) to get the most benefit from every bit of resource.".... What does that even mean? If I build a product here that has many levels of parts built by different companies, then require only US manufacturers be used, ignoring labor costs I am still in the hole because each one of those companies must build 35%+ corporate taxes into the price which then gets rolled up into the final price making me uncompetitive. I find a way around that issue or I am forced to close up shop, it's a simple economic decision, not some conspiracy to steal the poor people's money.

Another favorite of yours is equally unworkable, the mantra that we extract all energy and capture all water produced by burning gasoline or whatever. A noble thought until you apply some basic engineering to it and realize it is ridiculous. Capturing water, if you somehow solve the latent heat issue to condense the water at the rate produced in a limited area without consuming additional energy, becomes a problem quickly. About 7 pounds of water is produced for each pound of gas burned. So for 10 gallons of gas burned you , assuming you do the impossible and figure out how to condense water out as discussed, would get about 420 pounds of water that you would have to store, carry around and unload, very impractical. Especially if you consider that you would also be trapping some very undesirable byproducts of combustion as you collected your water.

Capitalism will sell anything that has value to someone willing to buy it. In capitalism no one holds a gun to your head and forces you to spend your money. It is all by choice and you face the consequences of your choices, some of those consequences good, some not so good if you make unwise choices.

As Alan Greenspan finally figured out, if left to its own devices with minimal regulation, greed will collapse any capitalistic economy.

Any economic model can work, none of them do. The common factor in failure of all of them is us.
 
Some of these comments are hilarious. I have worked for, run, and started several corporations. At no point did I waste one second of time worrying about politics, altruism, or any of the other "cry in my beer" bar stool theoretical crap.

Running a company in America is a day-to-day fight for survival. I started my day at 4am and finished no earlier than 9pm. You are competing with foreign companies that enjoy state sponsorship, no employees rights, financial backing that permits losing significant money just to get the business, zero taxes, etc. All advantages that a U.S. company will never have.

The soldiers in this fight (employees) are all straight mercenaries. They will take 3 months of family leave, thousands of dollars in training, accommodations for their kids soccer schedule, work flex time, and then leave you for .50 more an hour without a second of remorse or notice. Those that stay wait until you really need them and then hold you up for more money. That or they are always looking for a job and use any offers they get to demand more money. It's pretty hard to survive long term with employees that expect a minimum 10% raise every year with revenues growing 2-3%.

Of the employees that do stay most of them have less than zero morals. I had a large group of programmers working for me. They said they needed better chairs because their backs were hurting after sitting at a keyboard all day. I wanted to provide a good environment, so I go out and buy 30 Herman Miller Aeron chairs at a $1000 per. Nine months later we are truing our balance sheet, only two chairs were left in the building, the others were all stolen.

The counter point to this conversation is that most people are no damn good. Automation is the surest way to solve it, which works out well since most people don't want to work anyway. This is a two way street.
 
I didn't say they were good companies to work for, I said they provide great opportunity to advance in the money making corporate ladder. I don't play the game so I don't need to work jobs like that. I don't need a steady income because I have no debt to service and I don't need endlessly more stuff.

How do you know that they provide great opportunity to advance if you've never worked for them even once? :confused: By research?

If that's the case, then how many of the workers at my local walmart have a chance at being a manager or supervisor? How many years would it take them to get to that point?
 
As Alan Greenspan finally figured out, if left to its own devices with minimal regulation, greed will collapse any capitalistic economy.

Any economic model can work, none of them do. The common factor in failure of all of them is us.

One problem with that statement, the financial meltdown was a result of regulations that allowed people unable to pay to get mortgages and forced the hands of banks to issue those loans, period, to say it was unregulated is a pure unadulterated lie.

And you ignored my other two issues.
 
Some of these comments are hilarious. I have worked for, run, and started several corporations. At no point did I waste one second of time worrying about politics, altruism, or any of the other "cry in my beer" bar stool theoretical crap.

Running a company in America is a day-to-day fight for survival. I started my day at 4am and finished no earlier than 9pm. You are competing with foreign companies that enjoy state sponsorship, no employees rights, financial backing that permits losing significant money just to get the business, zero taxes, etc. All advantages that a U.S. company will never have.

The soldiers in this fight (employees) are all straight mercenaries. They will take 3 months of family leave, thousands of dollars in training, accommodations for their kids soccer schedule, work flex time, and then leave you for .50 more an hour without a second of remorse or notice. Those that stay wait until you really need them and then hold you up for more money. That or they are always looking for a job and use any offers they get to demand more money. It's pretty hard to survive long term with employees that expect a minimum 10% raise every year with revenues growing 2-3%.

Of the employees that do stay most of them have less than zero morals. I had a large group of programmers working for me. They said they needed better chairs because their backs were hurting after sitting at a keyboard all day. I wanted to provide a good environment, so I go out and buy 30 Herman Miller Aeron chairs at a $1000 per. Nine months later we are truing our balance sheet, only two chairs were left in the building, the others were all stolen.

The counter point to this conversation is that most people are no damn good. Automation is the surest way to solve it, which works out well since most people don't want to work anyway. This is a two way street.

You need to hire better employees......
 
How do you know that they provide great opportunity to advance if you've never worked for them even once? :confused: By research?

If that's the case, then how many of the workers at my local walmart have a chance at being a manager or supervisor? How many years would it take them to get to that point?

Yes, by research, by knowing people all my life who have gone from the fryer at McDs in High School, through Hamburger University and owned McDs sponsored franchises in their early 30s.

As for Wal Mart, from what I have seen if you can do the job, don't spend 3/4rs of your shift hiding in a corner with 5 others gossiping, and don't steal, you will be management. I wouldn't work for Wal Mart though, the kids completely sold out the old man's vision. He wanted to make American goods cost competitive with foreign goods by creating a more efficient market for them. Sam wanted to build the US economy, not rape it. He was an interesting guy who took the time to talk to me while I fueled his 182 in Harrison AR. Here's a businessman using GA, you know what he did with the 182? He loitered over areas watching traffic patterns to figure out where to locate stores. The kids completely sold out those ideals. I wonder if any of the old commercials from when Sam was still alive are still around?:dunno:
 
Yes, by research, by knowing people all my life who have gone from the fryer at McDs in High School, through Hamburger University and owned McDs sponsored franchises in their early 30s.

As for Wal Mart, from what I have seen if you can do the job, don't spend 3/4rs of your shift hiding in a corner with 5 others gossiping, and don't steal, you will be management. I wouldn't work for Wal Mart though, the kids completely sold out the old man's vision. He wanted to make American goods cost competitive with foreign goods by creating a more efficient market for them. Sam wanted to build the US economy, not rape it. He was an interesting guy who took the time to talk to me while I fueled his 182 in Harrison AR. Here's a businessman using GA, you know what he did with the 182? He loitered over areas watching traffic patterns to figure out where to locate stores. The kids completely sold out those ideals. I wonder if any of the old commercials from when Sam was still alive are still around?:dunno:
Okay...but how have you seen it if you don't shop at Walmart? I know a fellow student who has worked for a couple years at Walmart and hasn't gotten a single thing. He has a reasonable work ethic and doesn't ignore customers by texting or any of the things you said. The management sucks and won't promote him. Probably because he is reliable and shows up and nearly bends over backwards and they can push him around and the jobs will get done. They don't want to lose their own position. So... yeah. That's what I've 'seen'.

How many people have you known to work at McDonalds and progress through the ranks?
 
Okay...but how have you seen it if you don't shop at Walmart? I know a fellow student who has worked for a couple years at Walmart and hasn't gotten a single thing. He has a reasonable work ethic and doesn't ignore customers by texting or any of the things you said. The management sucks and won't promote him. Probably because he is reliable and shows up and nearly bends over backwards and they can push him around and the jobs will get done. They don't want to lose their own position. So... yeah. That's what I've 'seen'.

How many people have you known to work at McDonalds and progress through the ranks?

Excellent! You have proven to have a fully functional BS meter. A useful tool to have in the Hangar Talk section and absolutely essential in the Spin Zone. Good job.
 
One problem with that statement, the financial meltdown was a result of regulations that allowed people unable to pay to get mortgages and forced the hands of banks to issue those loans, period, to say it was unregulated is a pure unadulterated lie.

And you ignored my other two issues.

You should be embarrassed for being so ignorant! Please read before you make such absurd statements! It was the relaxation of regulation, the slow steady attack on needed regulations from 1980 on (Reagan!) that caused the 2007 debacle. Greenspan even apologized for it! It culminated in the deregulation of glass stegal in 1999, which allowed banks to become casinos! Dodd frank is being torn apart right now which will allow it to happen all over again and sooner rather than later!Grow up and read before engaging mouth! Privatize profits, socialize losses is how Wall Street plays the game. . You helped pay for the last bail out and you will again with that type thinking you dolt!
 
You should be embarrassed for being so ignorant! Please read before you make such absurd statements! It was the relaxation of regulation, the slow steady attack on needed regulations from 1980 on (Reagan!) that caused the 2007 debacle. Greenspan even apologized for it! It culminated in the deregulation of glass stegal in 1999, which allowed banks to become casinos! Dodd frank is being torn apart right now which will allow it to happen all over again and sooner rather than later!Grow up and read before engaging mouth! Privatize profits, socialize losses is how Wall Street plays the game. . You helped pay for the last bail out and you will again with that type thinking you dolt!

Oh Jimmy, you continually ignore the fact that your heroes successfully lobbied against the reigning in of the GSEs responsible for the meltdown. There is nothing absurd about my statement other than it offends your misguided liberal sensibilities. You know, those liberal sensibilities that lead you to call me ignorant and a dolt....... in the hanger talk area no less. I forgive you.
 
Okay...but how have you seen it if you don't shop at Walmart? I know a fellow student who has worked for a couple years at Walmart and hasn't gotten a single thing. He has a reasonable work ethic and doesn't ignore customers by texting or any of the things you said. The management sucks and won't promote him. Probably because he is reliable and shows up and nearly bends over backwards and they can push him around and the jobs will get done. They don't want to lose their own position. So... yeah. That's what I've 'seen'.

How many people have you known to work at McDonalds and progress through the ranks?

I don't live in a vacuum, I know people who do work WalMart. If your friend can't get promoted at WalMart, perhaps he should take that as a sign he doesn't belong at WalMart and get off his ass and do something else.
 
Excellent! You have proven to have a fully functional BS meter. A useful tool to have in the Hangar Talk section and absolutely essential in the Spin Zone. Good job.

:cheers:

I don't live in a vacuum, I know people who do work WalMart. If your friend can't get promoted at WalMart, perhaps he should take that as a sign he doesn't belong at WalMart and get off his ass and do something else.

If Walmart has great advancement opportunity, then why use the phrase "get off his ass and do something else" as if working at Walmart is like doing nothing? :dunno:
 
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