The real entry-level jobs are disappearing

Everskyward said:
Electronics were very expensive back then compared to now. I found some old receipts and was amazed how much a cassette tape recorder cost. Also a pocket calculator.
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Being an early adopter can be expensive.

I paid over $300 for my first CD player, and $500 for my first DVD player. Over $400 for a VHS stereo VCR, and over $500 for a Beta stereo VCR.

Computer prices have fallen into the basement at the same time as their capability has skyrocketed.
 
Dav8or said:
Likely because they were pre China.
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Not really. Nixon went to China before even the first wave of consumer electronics.

I remember when my dad bought a 5 function TI calculator for $120 in the early/mid 70s, within 5 years it was superseded in function by a $15 TI calculator. That is the way technology is, the key is the early adopters that invest in it.
 
asechrest said:
Ditto here. The dream jobs I envisioned came after a successful college career, which never came to fruition, thanks to...me. I make a decent living anyway, working a job I never envisioned. I imagine a great big chunk of everyone else is in the same boat.

I tried to talk to my brother about this. He waffled around for years after college, trying to find something he "really loved" to do. Turns out that there are few jobs that involve "staying up late playing games on the computer". Don't know how many times I told him to just do something, earn a living, work hard and advance, and get his fun on the side.
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Kind of hits home. My dad kind of parrots the same "get out and do something" thing, but he always wants it to be aviation related and a career position and nothing less. I guess I do get hung up on the 'dream' job or ideal job, but so far I've been really only looking at jobs that interest me. Can't always have what you want though, although what you want may not turn out to be what you thought it was gonna be. Good advice, thanks for the post.

There's a warehouse job open in OKC for Dr Pepper moving bottles around for 11/hour for the meantime, I suppose :dunno:

Hoping I meet the stringent high school diploma only requirement.
 
Also, slightly on-topic. I see this post a lot around the internet, I was wondering if it was true or what you guys thought of it.

NyLx1fy.png
 
Maxmosbey said:
Compare that to how much you were making back then as well.
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Back when my dad bought that cassette tape recorder for somewhere over $100 (I don't recall the exact amount) I wasn't making anything. :D

I would guess somewhere around 1970.
 
overdrive148 said:
Kind of hits home. My dad kind of parrots the same "get out and do something" thing, but he always wants it to be aviation related and a career position and nothing less. I guess I do get hung up on the 'dream' job or ideal job, but so far I've been really only looking at jobs that interest me. Can't always have what you want though, although what you want may not turn out to be what you thought it was gonna be. Good advice, thanks for the post.

There's a warehouse job open in OKC for Dr Pepper moving bottles around for 11/hour for the meantime, I suppose :dunno:

Hoping I meet the stringent high school diploma only requirement.
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There is no good reason to seek a job that doesn't interest you, better to leave and chase where the opportunities you seek are. If you want a flying job, well, there are banners to be towed and Chinese students to be taught. You won't go directly to an airline seat. Learning to be an aircraft mechanic is also a good entry and stepping stone into the aviation industry, even as a pilot, if you have mechanical aptitude.
 
overdrive148 said:
Also, slightly on-topic. I see this post a lot around the internet, I was wondering if it was true or what you guys thought of it.

NyLx1fy.png
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You know, a couple of those it home, but most of them scream entitled little prick.
 
overdrive148 said:
Also, slightly on-topic. I see this post a lot around the internet, I was wondering if it was true or what you guys thought of it.
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Every time has its pros and cons, learning to take advantage of the situation is the key IMO. It amazes me that people will spend days researching what phone to get and just see what happens when it comes to careers. I had a GREAT job as a welder in an Aerospace factory. I LOVED it and made really good money for the time, but it didn't take much brain power to see that the job wasn't going to be a good career. So I went in the service, because I didn't have the money for college. Earned the GI bill, ROTC, etc. My old buddies are still back in that same town, mostly unemployed, bitching about the government, economy, outsourcing, etc.
 
overdrive148 said:
Also, slightly on-topic. I see this post a lot around the internet, I was wondering if it was true or what you guys thought of it.
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Sure. You can find support for pretty much any point of view on the Internet.

You mentioned earlier that you pretty much run the airport when you're working. I'm curious, when you are working, do you meet the pilots getting fuel? At my airport, we have two employees. One comes out with a big smile and greets every pilot at the pumps. He knows their life stories and has been presented with a number of opportunities as a result of it. The other guy is quiet, good worker but doesn't really look outside of his work.

I've done a lot of hiring in my career. I rarely see someone who really goes out of their way to seek an opportunity. Hell, I'm impressed when someone takes 5 minutes to google our business.

Another idea, do you know what kind of work you want to do? Have you sought out folks who currently have that position and talked to them about their work and opportunities in it? Seems like ERAU would have a great alumni network.

Best of luck to you.
 
PaulS said:
You know, a couple of those it home, but most of them scream entitled little prick.
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There's a lot of entitled old prick out there as well. They feel entitled to anything they can take. We no longer have a population:resource ratio that allows for that. That we should have everything we want, that is something we teach our children is not a reality or even good for them. Why does that change when we become adults? You can have anything you want, but you have to add value beyond yourself for the resources consumed. That is what we don't do, we waste 70% of everything.
 
Henning said:
There's a lot of entitled old prick out there as well. They feel entitled to anything they can take. We no longer have a population:resource ratio that allows for that. That we should have everything we want, that is something we teach our children is not a reality or even good for them. Why does that change when we become adults? You can have anything you want, but you have to add value beyond yourself for the resources consumed.
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I didn't teach my children that. You paint everyone in broad strokes for the sins of a few. You should really stop that.
 
Alexb2000 said:
Every time has its pros and cons, learning to take advantage of the situation is the key IMO. It amazes me that people will spend days researching what phone to get and just see what happens when it comes to careers. I had a GREAT job as a welder in an Aerospace factory. I LOVED it and made really good money for the time, but it didn't take much brain power to see that the job wasn't going to be a good career. So I went in the service, because I didn't have the money for college. Earned the GI bill, ROTC, etc. My old buddies are still back in that same town, mostly unemployed, bitching about the government, economy, outsourcing, etc.
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Fair enough. Never researched for buying a phone, but I did research about building a PC for a few days. Why wasn't the welding job a good career if you loved the work and the money was good if you dont mind me asking? Also which ones do you agree with?

Henning said:
There is no good reason to seek a job that doesn't interest you, better to leave and chase where the opportunities you seek are. If you want a flying job, well, there are banners to be towed and Chinese students to be taught. You won't go directly to an airline seat. Learning to be an aircraft mechanic is also a good entry and stepping stone into the aviation industry, even as a pilot, if you have mechanical aptitude.
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I asked that earlier this year (in relation to the mechanical side)
http://www.pilotsofamerica.com/forum/showthread.php?t=66961

I think plenty of people on here have had to seek jobs that they weren't interested in because they had to in order to support the flying habit. I'm of the mind that life is too short to do something you hate, but I forgot that I'm pretty early in the whole "life" game and I have a while. Sitting around waiting for a perfect job is probably a bad idea as others here have said. Do I want to shuttle bottles of Dr Pepper around a warehouse? Not really. The forklift experience and warehouse stuff might lead somewhere. Reviews on the job say that there's no advancement and it's a go-nowhere job, but it'd pay the bills while I try to get into a better job :dunno:

The question is whether to keep the airport job on the weekends hoping that it'll end up being significant to an employer for aviation or to just go full time with another job and make more money. Or just work all week and weekend with both.
 
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overdrive148 said:
Also, slightly on-topic. I see this post a lot around the internet, I was wondering if it was true or what you guys thought of it.
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I graduated college in 1979 so this is pretty amusing. The economy was not good in 1979 and I can remember people complaining that we were in the biggest part of the baby boom, with much more competition than our parents. I'm pretty sure I made around $10,000/year at my first full-time job and I've never worked for a union. I switched jobs and living locations quite a few times in my 20s, but mostly because it was my choice. I didn't buy a house until I was 35 and I still live in it. On the other hand, tuition was about $600-800/year at a large state university and I can maintain about the same lifestyle as my parents who both worked and were college-educated.
 
Sam D said:
Sure. You can find support for pretty much any point of view on the Internet.

You mentioned earlier that you pretty much run the airport when you're working. I'm curious, when you are working, do you meet the pilots getting fuel? At my airport, we have two employees. One comes out with a big smile and greets every pilot at the pumps. He knows their life stories and has been presented with a number of opportunities as a result of it. The other guy is quiet, good worker but doesn't really look outside of his work.

I've done a lot of hiring in my career. I rarely see someone who really goes out of their way to seek an opportunity. Hell, I'm impressed when someone takes 5 minutes to google our business.

Another idea, do you know what kind of work you want to do? Have you sought out folks who currently have that position and talked to them about their work and opportunities in it? Seems like ERAU would have a great alumni network.

Best of luck to you.
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When I work the airport on the weekends, I am the only one here. I try to make at least small talk with pilots who seem like they have nothing better to do and ask lots of questions (how many hours, what was your first aviation job, how many hours did you have to get your current job, how did you afford your license) and if they seem interested, I talk about my education and current job and goals and swap stories back and forth. I have a decent stack of business cards after working here about 7 months now but most don't really lead anywhere.

This morning I struck up a conversation with a fish and wildlife pilot and learned that they only hire pilots with 500 hours, commercial and instrument, and a wildlife degree.

I do make an effort to meet a lot of pilots that come through, but the work on the weekends is sometimes pretty heavy around the terminal and I don't always have the time to. Heck, I have hung around and given out my cell number for pilots who would be in late so they can call me when they need in, stayed late at the FBO so the pilots could have a place to kick back while their pax did their business deals or performances, driven more than a handful of pax on my time/dime to places they wouldn't be able to get to after hours due to scheduling errors or events unseen. Last weekend a guy called in asking if it would be possible to land and get a courtesy car to drive to his family who had broken down on a highway about 30 mins away, I told him Enterprise was closed and the courtesy car was for use in-town only, but that I'd be happy to drive him out and back if we were the closest airport. He found another, but that's the kind of thing that I try to do - above and beyond what a typical part time guy would do.

As for the alumni network, they do post out job openings through erau email but most are for engineers and programmers and mechanics. Few are for low time pilots. I also watch for openings on sites suggested by professors (like AAAE). I would like to be a pilot for a living but I can't currently afford an instrument and commercial ticket. I would like to be able to fall back on airport operations when there are troubles with a steady pilot job, and I don't mind the work and it seems to pay more than a low level pilot would as well (pay => ratings => career pilot). My degree pushes me towards a position in it too.

Some people on here have said that I should've gotten a degree that is non-aviation to fall back on and who knows, they may be right. A backup job for me would be airport ops or management, but getting there first is the thing.

Everskyward said:
I graduated college in 1979 so this is pretty amusing. The economy was not good in 1979 and I can remember people complaining that we were in the biggest part of the baby boom, with much more competition than our parents. I'm pretty sure I made around $10,000/year at my first full-time job and I've never worked for a union. I switched jobs and living locations quite a few times in my 20s, but mostly because it was my choice. I didn't buy a house until I was 35 and I still live in it. On the other hand, tuition was about $600-800/year at a large state university and I can maintain about the same lifestyle as my parents who both worked and were college-educated.
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Interesting perspective, thank you for sharing :yes:
 
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overdrive148 said:
Fair enough. Never researched for buying a phone, but I did research about building a PC for a few days. Why wasn't the welding job a good career if you loved the work and the money was good if you dont mind me asking?
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Anyone making good money doing something that can be done elsewhere is a target of both cheaper labor and automation. That takes out most of what is done in a factory. Now we are seeing the demand for welders going back up because it was so hard to get work for a long time and people moved on.

What I meant by research for say a weldor is to find out, what the pay scale is, where the jobs are, what they take to get, etc. Then look at the living conditions of those doing the work and decide if that's enough for you. Do you want to live in costal Louisiana and work on oil rigs two weeks on one week off? That's what I'm talking about.

I used a simple test in my life when going to interview I would look at the cars in the parking lot. If they were a bunch of old beaters, I don't want to work there no matter what they tell me. If they're a bunch of Ferrari's double parked, I am VERY interested. The Microsoft parking lot in the 90's for example was like an exotic car show sometimes.
 
overdrive148 said:
I would like to be a pilot for a living but I can't currently afford an instrument and commercial ticket. I would like to be able to fall back on airport operations when there are troubles with a steady pilot job, and I don't mind the work and it seems to pay more than a low level pilot would as well (pay => ratings => career pilot). My degree pushes me towards a position in it too.
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Thanks for your response. If you'll forgive the dumb question (I honestly don't know how ERAU works): how do you go to ERAU, want to be a pilot, but only graduate with a PPL?

It sounds like you're doing the right stuff. Not sure that moving soda around moves you toward your goal -- unless it's a means to fund the ratings.

Also, why not knock out the FOI and AGI tests and look into doing ground instruction? Heck, you could even do the IGI.
 
You know, I'm a boomer who graduated H.S. in '73? I've skimmed over this whole thread and pick up mostly that people are now geared to fight with each other. This IMO is a phenomenon designed to put us at odds with each other to keep our attention away from the people who spend decades in congress taking care of themselves via their service to large corporations and the super wealthy. Their greed and unethical behavior is what resulted in the de-industrialization of America. Young Americans don't have as much total opportunity as we did, but make no mistake by thinking my generation was handed a future. I won't bore you with my career history, but suffice to say it was tough going and I educated myself, worked thru good paying jobs I was good at, but hated in order to achieve goals. Point is, you won't solve anything for your generation via an argument here. You have to be ****ed off enuf to purge congress and get election finance laws in place to get a government that serves regular Americans so you have an economic framework that allows growth of opportunity for you. Regardless, you have to make opportunity happen....it's not a gift, and you're damn sure not entitled to it.

One more thing; American exceptionalism is total bulls***. Americans today are so dumbed down that it is alarming to me. Wake up, partner with others of your generation in any way you can and clean house on congress so you to force a rebuild of a country that I used to be proud of. My generation used to demonstrate in the streets and scare the hell out of elected officials in order to get change. What do you think ended the Viet Nam war? Get to it.
 
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I'm in the middle, not many of us. But as many young people as boomers. You old people ain't going to like it if they start voting. On the other hand there is a fair chance they will just ask who John Galt is and laugh at the decline. Either way some Boomers retirement decades(what a joke) will be cut short.
 
Alexb2000 said:
Anyone making good money doing something that can be done elsewhere is a target of both cheaper labor and automation. That takes out most of what is done in a factory. Now we are seeing the demand for welders going back up because it was so hard to get work for a long time and people moved on.

What I meant by research for say a weldor is to find out, what the pay scale is, where the jobs are, what they take to get, etc. Then look at the living conditions of those doing the work and decide if that's enough for you. Do you want to live in costal Louisiana and work on oil rigs two weeks on one week off? That's what I'm talking about.

I used a simple test in my life when going to interview I would look at the cars in the parking lot. If they were a bunch of old beaters, I don't want to work there no matter what they tell me. If they're a bunch of Ferrari's double parked, I am VERY interested. The Microsoft parking lot in the 90's for example was like an exotic car show sometimes.
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Fair enough. Your example applied into my case - looking into what it takes for a respectable airport ops job (possibly supervisory), so far it's been all over the place. While most want you to have a bachelor's in something related to aviation, the amount of experience required, the pay scale, the benefits, the preferences, have all been widely varying. Some want you to have experience at a Part 139 airport, others only prefer it, some want 1-3 years, others want 4-6 years for the same or less pay. The lifestyle I don't mind - being responsible for things and being called in at weird hours to help people out or ensure safety. But landing a job in a 139 airport that qualifies as 'experience' for most of the jobs is basically like being employed in the job you are looking at already. And working at a small airport like Shawnee part time may or may not earn points. Full time isn't an option here, even though we run on basically 3-4 people total.

I like the car test, I did that with the sales job and I only saw one beater. Just didn't do well enough at sales and honestly didn't like it as much.

Sam D said:
Thanks for your response. If you'll forgive the dumb question (I honestly don't know how ERAU works): how do you go to ERAU, want to be a pilot, but only graduate with a PPL?

It sounds like you're doing the right stuff. Not sure that moving soda around moves you toward your goal -- unless it's a means to fund the ratings.

Also, why not knock out the FOI and AGI tests and look into doing ground instruction? Heck, you could even do the IGI.
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I actually got my PPL outside of ERAU - they have a degree program which gives you a bachelor's and some ratings but it is even more expensive and limited to the main campuses (which are also very expensive). I did my classes at satellite campuses when they were available. My dad funded the PPL and a good chunk of the degree as long as I kept my grades very high. Got a 3.8 CGPA fortunately.

Moving soda around doesn't feel right because I know that I can do more than that with the degree I have. I feel like applying for a job that only requires a high school diploma and a pulse is an insult to the time I spent and the money my dad fronted for me to be able to get my degree, but I'm not above it. I could certainly use the money but I'd prefer it to be something that moves me towards aviation.

11 an hour full time doesn't feel like enough to really jump into grabbing ratings either. Even though it's above min wage. We have a move coming up to get closer to OKC for better jobs (and education) and the airport part time isn't going to cut it. Still on the fence about keeping it and doing another job on the week or just keeping both and working all week long.

Fundamentals of Instructing / Adv. Ground Instructor / Instrument Ground Instructor. I have never heard of these before. I would think that being an instructor would be a pretty interesting early pilot career job but I'm not sure how good I'd be as a teacher. Ground could be something else entirely though...
 
PaulS said:
I didn't teach my children that. You paint everyone in broad strokes for the sins of a few. You should really stop that.
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Wow, you didn't teach your children self restraint, self control? WTF?:dunno: What part of Christ's message did you end up getting?:confused: Astounding....
 
Manche59 said:
One more thing; American exceptionalism is total bulls***. Americans today are so dumbed down that it is alarming to me. Wake up, partner with others of your generation in any way you can and clean house on congress so you to force a rebuild of a country that I used to be proud of. My generation used to demonstrate in the streets and scare the hell out of elected officials in order to get change. What do you think ended the Viet Nam war? Get to it.
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And then voted themselves into office and started multiple new wars, and turned the stock market into the world's largest legalized casino.

LOL. I wouldn't be too proud of what the hippies became once they needed jobs.

As far as the thread goes... Questions for the OP to ponder:

How many graduates are there from ERAU every year? How about all aviation degree programs combined?

How many aviation jobs are created each year?

Once you know the answer to those two questions, you'll know how many other graduate's aviation dreams you will have to destroy to get a job in the field.

Or what your chances are of them destroying yours.

The schools crank out way more graduates than there will ever be jobs.
 
denverpilot said:
And then voted themselves into office and started multiple new wars, and turned the stock market into the world's largest legalized casino.

LOL. I wouldn't be too proud of what the hippies became once they needed jobs.
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No one has a lock on virtue and I'll not argue that greed certainly knows no demographic.

This hippie quit a six figure corporate sales management job to work for less than half the salary in order to help make GA safer. I spend a lot of my time taking FAA and other industry people to task. Fact is I'm FOR younger Americans being successful and my remarks are a call to action and not to bash other pilots.

It's fashionable today to try to make other people look stupid by competing to be the loudest in the room.....good luck with that. Fox News is counting on millions to follow suit.
 
denverpilot said:
And then voted themselves into office and started multiple new wars, and turned the stock market into the world's largest legalized casino.

LOL. I wouldn't be too proud of what the hippies became once they needed jobs.

As far as the thread goes... Questions for the OP to ponder:

How many graduates are there from ERAU every year? How about all aviation degree programs combined?

How many aviation jobs are created each year?

Once you know the answer to those two questions, you'll know how many other graduate's aviation dreams you will have to destroy to get a job in the field.

Or what your chances are of them destroying yours.

The schools crank out way more graduates than there will ever be jobs.
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Yep, once the hippies had kids and became bitter and jaded, they really tore into everything. Then there is the Mommy Lobby with "anything to protect the children" with no concept of what their children actually need, quality guidance from them.
 
Henning said:
Not really. Nixon went to China before even the first wave of consumer electronics.

I remember when my dad bought a 5 function TI calculator for $120 in the early/mid 70s, within 5 years it was superseded in function by a $15 TI calculator. That is the way technology is, the key is the early adopters that invest in it.
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Nixon going to China didn't mean we instantly started building stuff there. Back in the 70s that TI calculator was made in the USA. Later production of electronics moved to Japan, then Taiwan and eventually China. The super dirt cheap manufacturing that also is complicated and sophisticated that we enjoy today and marvel at, is only possible in China.

Yes, early adopters pay a steep price and with volume production the price drops, but the level of sophisticated technology that we buy now for $20, or less at Walmart now blows my mind. Toys with more tech in them than entire missile systems of the 1970s. We can only achieve this in China. No other country can do it.
 
Dav8or said:
Nixon going to China didn't mean we instantly started building stuff there. Back in the 70s that TI calculator was made in the USA. Later production of electronics moved to Japan, then Taiwan and eventually China. The super dirt cheap manufacturing that also is complicated and sophisticated that we enjoy today and marvel at, is only possible in China.

Yes, early adopters pay a steep price and with volume production the price drops, but the level of sophisticated technology that we buy now for $20, or less at Walmart now blows my mind. Toys with more tech in them than entire missile systems of the 1970s. We can only achieve this in China. No other country can do it.
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Understood, was just pointing out that "Pre China" was not really a factor in the initial or reduction of price. That $15 TI calculator was still US made. To believe it can only be done n China is false.
 
overdrive148 said:
There's a warehouse job open in OKC for Dr Pepper moving bottles around for 11/hour for the meantime, I suppose :dunno:

Hoping I meet the stringent high school diploma only requirement.
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Sadly, if your resume shows your entire education, they are likely not to hire you. You will be over qualified. They won't want you because they know you will quit the second something better comes along that better fits your qualifications.

If you want the Dr. Pepper job, you'll have to lie. That's how a lot of people get jobs now. They lie.
 
Henning said:
Yep, once the hippies had kids and became bitter and jaded, they really tore into everything. Then there is the Mommy Lobby with "anything to protect the children" with no concept of what their children actually need, quality guidance from them.
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I don't think they became bitter or jaded. They stayed the selfish jerks they started as. And there was good psychological reason for this. When they started out, many became hippies and generally had nothing useful to do because they were part of a massive wave of excess children as Boomers.

They had to scrabble and kill the competition or not do as well as their parents. Or hang out without jobs and play flower child. That they just happened to be bored enough to protest Vietnam while jobless is a side effect. A great many were over IN Vietnam and their peers spat on them when they came home. The protests certainly weren't all based out of true love for fellow men, that's for sure.

Eventually their peers who weren't playing flower child found ways to grow their businesses to hire all of them. Many of those methods were by playing investment games and killing unions, and other things. Good/bad, doesn't really matter. The businesses had to naturally grow to meet demand.

Now they're all retiring. They value nothing higher than their own comfort. They've started doing the nanny State stuff out of that same self-centered nature and boredom again.

These are the average ones by the way. There's a number of the better than average ones here on PoA. They are the business owners.

Macroeconomics. Their kids (who are as self centered as they were) will do fine when the wave gets retired and economically out of the way. It'll be interesting to see what the Millennials do politically. They're going to have a couple decades of frustration of not ever being able to tell anyone else what to do and their own sociopaths will probably put our current bumper crop of sociopathic politicians to shame.
 
Dav8or said:
Sadly, if your resume shows your entire education, they are likely not to hire you. You will be over qualified. They won't want you because they know you will quit the second something better comes along that better fits your qualifications.

If you want the Dr. Pepper job, you'll have to lie. That's how a lot of people get jobs now. They lie.
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I don't really -want- the job, but something for income is probably a good idea. It sure beats working in retail or fast food. I could never willingly lie on a resume to apply somewhere to work. I can't imagine having a resume that has HIGH SCHOOL DIPLOMA printed in 120 font with my name on there somewhere. I would probably have to act the part to keep the job too.

"Welcome to Costco. I love you."
 
Henning said:
There's always good career opportunities at Wal Mart and McDonalds.
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"Brought to you by Carl's Jr."

I did work fast food for close to a year already (years back) and I was grossly overqualified with an associate's at the time. I worked hard and had to fix things wrong around the store on a daily basis, which I complained to the manager about and not a thing changed even though it was her own imposed rule people were breaking. Customers came in surprised that we had fresh milk stocked and that it wasn't expired or empty shelved. Made regular customers, knew what they wanted, helped them unload. Got tipped twice in the whole time I was there. Not that it matters, but busting my buns didn't get me anything other than a .25c raise and that was mandatory and two months late.
 
At my company, our CIO, VP Facilities, VP IT (and probably forgetting others) all started taking tickets in our theaters. Currently, one of our rising senior accountants was a server in one of our restaurants. I honestly don't know which (if any) of them have a college education. For some, I think the only benefit of a college education would be to give them comfort that they didn't need one in the first place!
 
Henning said:
To believe it can only be done n China is false.
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No, it's not. Ask people in the electronics industry. The infrastructure for electronic component construction no longer exists in America. The production facilities aren't here either. We can assemble things from imported components though, but why?

Sure, anything is possible and we could rebuild all that has been lost as long as everyone is OK with their electronic gadgets costing 20-30 times more.
 
Sam D said:
At my company, our CIO, VP Facilities, VP IT (and probably forgetting others) all started taking tickets in our theaters. Currently, one of our rising senior accountants was a server in one of our restaurants. I honestly don't know which (if any) of them have a college education. For some, I think the only benefit of a college education would be to give them comfort that they didn't need one in the first place!
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So you're staying two of them found the porn on the CEOs laptop and the other caught a Board member cheating in a bathroom?

LOL. ;)
 
Sam D said:
At my company, our CIO, VP Facilities, VP IT (and probably forgetting others) all started taking tickets in our theaters. Currently, one of our rising senior accountants was a server in one of our restaurants. I honestly don't know which (if any) of them have a college education. For some, I think the only benefit of a college education would be to give them comfort that they didn't need one in the first place!
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At least there's room to grow in your company! Experience must have been the driving force there for advancement. Makes you wonder why companies today even want you to have a 4 year degree in the first place.

The reason I got my degree (and the reason my dad decided to pay for it) was because it'd be an entire leg in the door for anything aviation related. So we thought at least. Most jobs I look at today ask for a bachelor's, at least those worth something, but the ERAU on top was supposed to be what set me apart from a lot of other applicants for entry-level. Unfortunately I'm finding that it's not the powerhouse that we thought it was.
 
overdrive148 said:
"Brought to you by Carl's Jr."

I did work fast food for close to a year already (years back) and I was grossly overqualified with an associate's at the time. I worked hard and had to fix things wrong around the store on a daily basis, which I complained to the manager about and not a thing changed even though it was her own imposed rule people were breaking. Customers came in surprised that we had fresh milk stocked and that it wasn't expired or empty shelved. Made regular customers, knew what they wanted, helped them unload. Got tipped twice in the whole time I was there. Not that it matters, but busting my buns didn't get me anything other than a .25c raise and that was mandatory and two months late.
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That's the difference between McDonalds and Carl's Jr. Nearly 30 years ago when I was first getting in the yacht business I did some day work on Joan Kroc's yacht, and she was a very nice lady. We had a talk one day about McDonalds and she said that "McDonalds is not a food business, McDonalds is a real estate business that uses food to pay for it." That is the thing about McDonalds,if you prove a good employee, they will give you franchises, and they have a pretty well developed talent spotting and development system.
 
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