The 1-800 Clearance Delivery Number

mattaxelrod

mattaxelrod

Pre-takeoff checklist
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Mar 11, 2005
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Fanwood, NJ
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Matt
Ever since this option was initiated some time ago, I've just never been clear on how it's supposed to work.

If I have an IFR flight plan on file from some airport with no GCO, I'll call the number, wait a while on hold, and then some guy gets back to me with "ATC clears..." and then my tail number and an initial route. Also, some huge block of release time, like once it was anytime in the next 30 minutes.

The last time I did this, I was at an airport nestled in a valley. I got my information and instruction to climb to X000 and proceed to ABCDE intersection. Now, it was beautiful VFR outside--I just wanted to fly under IFR--so there was never any hazard to me. But there was no way to get to this intersection directly with the hills on either side. There was no DP or anything. How would this have worked had there been a ceiling of like 1000 feet or something?
 
There's nothing new about getting clearances from FSS by phone, that's been around for a long time. The only thing that's new is a dedicated number for it.

Tell us what airport you were departing and that would help.

If there was no DP (textual or otherwise), then you are on your own to depart and maintain terrain clearance. If you can't do that due to weather, then you just don't depart.
 
If you couldn't get to altitude safely, the only way to work it would be to wait for better weather.

I arrived at Ukiah (KUKI) after a replan during my IFR cross country. Because that wasn't where we had planned to go that day, we were underprepared. We realized on the ground that the airplane wasn't capable of the DP favored by the wind, and was only marginally capable of the downwind DP (it would require an extended Vx climb, with no margins and the risk of an overheating engine). Because it was VMC and I had an instructor along, we rolled our own -- climb to 400 AGL as normal, turn left heading 100 and climb straight out. When above the OROCA, turn direct Mendocino VOR (which would be behind us) to start the filed flight plan. I made it quite clear that I was not going to do that in IMC.

It's legal, but really stupid, kinda like a 0/0 takeoff.

At least the clearance (which we got through FSS via an RCO) was really simple. Cleared as filed, void time 5 minutes.
 
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MAKG1 said:
It's legal, but really stupid, kinda like a 0/0 takeoff.
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I think it really depends on where you are. There's not a VFR-only airport in VT east of the Greens where I'd feel comfortable maintaining my own terrain clearance to the MIA. No ODP, I don't go. But taking off on 10 at Kelleys Island in Lake Erie would be doable unless the bases are below 100 feet. There's just nothing to hit out there on runway heading for miles.

So I'd amend your statement to say legal, often but not always stupid.
 
azure said:
So I'd amend your statement to say legal, often but not always stupid.
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If you can't see it, how do you KNOW there is nothing to hit?

I'd never bet my life on a chart for obstacle avoidance. New obstacles have a way of showing up occasionally.

Yes, even in a lake. Oil platforms can easily be 100 feet high.
 
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mattaxelrod said:
Ever since this option was initiated some time ago, I've just never been clear on how it's supposed to work.
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It's no different that it ever was (I learned it when I trained for the rating 23 years ago).

The phone number is just a way to get an IFR clearance to you while on the ground at some airport with no Tower, no GCO, no CD frequency, no ability to call Center or TRACON directly in short no other means of getting your clearance. Period. It's nothing more than that. The only thing that's at all recent is the dedicated national phone number.
The last time I did this, I was at an airport nestled in a valley. I got my information and instruction to climb to X000 and proceed to ABCDE intersection. Now, it was beautiful VFR outside--I just wanted to fly under IFR--so there was never any hazard to me. But there was no way to get to this intersection directly with the hills on either side. There was no DP or anything. How would this have worked had there been a ceiling of like 1000 feet or something?
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That's not their problem; that's yours. Your clearance doesn't even apply until the typical "upon entering controlled airspace" instruction. Beyond that, until you are are at the MEA or a controller's MVA, terrain clearance is 100% your responsibility. In the absence of some kind of ODP or other guidance, see the other comments regarding how wise it is to "roll your own" ODP.

Perhaps if you have an example, the departure airport and the clearance you actually received, we can all walk through it.
 
None of this has anything to do with HOW you get your clearance. You won't get a substantially different clearance (other than perhaps the void time info) if talking direct to the approach/center controller.
 
Circling climb to avoid the terrain? If you can't do it, tell them and ask for whatever way you want to get there. If it's VFR day, a composit plan is perfectly acceptable. Your IFR won't be active till you reach the first waypoint anyway.

Rod Machado has a good write up on it.
 
Matt , the advice given by Mark and others about terrain clearance is correct so I won't add to that. I will however give a tid bit that I use at Wings. As you may know even though Wings is under the Philly bravo you can't raise Philly departure or clnc delivery on the radio while on the ground, so I either call Philly app direct or the national toll free number. The clearance void times are pretty tight so I usually call just before I get in the plane and start up. I ask for a "Hold for Release" clearance. Get the clearance and do the whole CRAFT thing and then when I'm Number one at the runway I call back for my release. Been doing that for years and never had an issue.
 
MAKG1 said:
If you can't see it, how do you KNOW there is nothing to hit?

I'd never bet my life on a chart for obstacle avoidance. New obstacles have a way of showing up occasionally.

Yes, even in a lake. Oil platforms can easily be 100 feet high.
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This is getting way off topic, but the scenario is this: you land in VFR conditions (no IAPs at 89D), and 2 or 3 hours later some low scud blows in just as you're ready to leave. You estimate the ceilings are OVC002. There's no approach control for the area but you can call the 1-888 number for your clearance. Should you do that or wait for better weather?

If there was an oil platform out there, you'd know about it when you landed. What are the chances a new one popped up in the last 3 hours?

If you had been there for a couple of weeks, then sure I could see your objection (though unless you stayed indoors the whole time I think you'd be aware of new obstacles). I'm thinking of my cycling day trips to the island.

I'd have no problem taking responsibility for obstacle clearance in that scenario.

My biggest problem would actually be getting a cell connection to FSS. The airport is normally unattended and there is no landline phone you can call from the "lobby" of the terminal building - it's set up exclusively to collect landing fees.
 
MAKG1 said:
Yes, even in a lake. Oil platforms can easily be 100 feet high.
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Not many lakes with oil platforms in the US. None in the Great Lakes that I know of. Venezuela has a big lake with lots of oil platforms. Maybe some in Russia. Pretty much none elsewhere. These days we'd just directionally drill under the lake unless it was Great Lakes sized.
 
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Your IFR departure clearance does not give you terrain clearance unless you are flying a SID. If not, it is up to you for terrain avoidance.
 
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