TFR authority from Police

[cavmedic]

Situation : Police activity with "SWAT" ( or what ever the call themselves) had reports of an AWOL soldier with mental health issues. When members of the soldiers unit went to check on him , they heard muffled gunshot ..

4 hours later , numerous police activity , more people standing around than doing anything, no contact from inside, evacuating neighboring houses etc etc,( all in the name of public safety), Police get ****ed because of the news helicopters . They call the County and want them to " make a phone call" to clear the helicopters from the area. Is this something they can make happen , AKA a TFR over the area or would someone tell them to pound sand.

 

[EdFred]

You can request anything. Whether you get it or not is another thing. I have seen TFRs for police searches in the past.

 

[Doggtyred]

Situation : Police activity with "SWAT" ( or what ever the call themselves) had reports of an AWOL soldier with mental health issues. When members of the soldiers unit went to check on him , they heard muffled gunshot ..

4 hours later , numerous police activity , more people standing around than doing anything, no contact from inside, evacuating neighboring houses etc etc,( all in the name of public safety), Police get ****ed because of the news helicopters . They call the County and want them to " make a phone call" to clear the helicopters from the area. Is this something they can make happen , AKA a TFR over the area or would someone tell them to pound sand.

They can ask, might get or might not get.... But what they DO get wont be anything a gyro stabilized zoom lens couldn't overcome.

 

[Clip4]

Situation : Police activity with "SWAT" ( or what ever the call themselves) had reports of an AWOL soldier with mental health issues. When members of the soldiers unit went to check on him , they heard muffled gunshot ..

4 hours later , numerous police activity , more people standing around than doing anything, no contact from inside, evacuating neighboring houses etc etc,( all in the name of public safety), Police get ****ed because of the news helicopters . They call the County and want them to " make a phone call" to clear the helicopters from the area. Is this something they can make happen , AKA a TFR over the area or would someone tell them to pound sand.

I believe the TFR request would be honored, but the event you describe would likely be resolved before the TFR was ever issued.

 

[poadeleted20]

TFR's to keep newsies out of the way of active police operations involving stand-offs and hostages and the like (as much to deny intel to the bad guys as to avoid spooking them or getting in the way of police observation) happen regularly, and the FAA is prone to grant them.

 

[docmirror]

If a TFR were issued, and the aircraft were already in the location, how would it be enforced? They briefed the flight prior to take off, and there was no TFR. I guess they would be limited to their fuel range, cause once they go off station the TFR would restrict them from returning, but for aircraft all ready on scene, it's too bad, so sad we took off and briefed and there was no TFR in place.

 

[N801BH]

Situation : Police activity with "SWAT" ( or what ever the call themselves) had reports of an AWOL soldier with mental health issues. When members of the soldiers unit went to check on him , they heard muffled gunshot ..

4 hours later , numerous police activity , more people standing around than doing anything, no contact from inside, evacuating neighboring houses etc etc,( all in the name of public safety), Police get ****ed because of the news helicopters . They call the County and want them to " make a phone call" to clear the helicopters from the area. Is this something they can make happen , AKA a TFR over the area or would someone tell them to pound sand.

They can get a TFR.. but.. How cold do they want the poor suicide victim to be??

 

[poadeleted21]

If you're the right person and your daughters getting married you can get one.

 

[cavmedic]

They can get a TFR.. but.. How cold do they want the poor suicide victim to be??

Well in this case , 6 hours until they entered the house after the one muffled gunshot was heard ...... complete charlie foxtrot as most of these wanna be "operators" are .

 

[TexasPilot71]

How was this handled prior to 9/11 and the advent of the TFR? It seems to me the "TFR system" is being abused by various agencies. This is a direct threat to pilots and our certificates especially in the situation described by the OP. We could be airborne when this TFR goes up and we could easily wander into it. Despite the thorough flight planning 2 hours earlier.

 

[Palmpilot]

TFRs existed before 9/11/2001. Just not as many of them.

 

[poadeleted21]

TFRs existed before 9/11/2001. Just not as many of them.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Camel's_nose

 

[NineThreeKilo]

Situation : Police activity with "SWAT" ( or what ever the call themselves) had reports of an AWOL soldier with mental health issues. When members of the soldiers unit went to check on him , they heard muffled gunshot ..

4 hours later , numerous police activity , more people standing around than doing anything, no contact from inside, evacuating neighboring houses etc etc,( all in the name of public safety), Police get ****ed because of the news helicopters . They call the County and want them to " make a phone call" to clear the helicopters from the area. Is this something they can make happen , AKA a TFR over the area or would someone tell them to pound sand.

Ahh dont want video choppers around eh?

Sounds like they are getting ready for the good ol' SWAT turkey shoot!

 

[AdamZ]

TFR's to keep newsies out of the way of active police operations involving stand-offs and hostages and the like (as much to deny intel to the bad guys as to avoid spooking them or getting in the way of police observation) happen regularly, and the FAA is prone to grant them.

Correct, however the county can't grant them as the OP inquired.

 

[MAKG1]

PAO has a neighborhood nearby that is, shall we say, not exactly millionaire land. It's one of the worst neighborhoods on the Peninsula. And every once in a while, the cops ask the airport for a TFR, and the left pattern shuts down.

Trying to land through cop helicopter traffic is not a good idea.

 

[ClimbnSink]

Ahh dont want video choppers around eh?

Sounds like they are getting ready for the good ol' SWAT turkey shoot!

Yup. There is great footage out there of a cop about to beat someone and his cop buddy grabs his arm and points up at the news helicopter. Although that was years ago, lots of cops getting away with murder on tape.

 

[poadeleted20]

How was this handled prior to 9/11 and the advent of the TFR?

Pretty much the same, as TFR's were invented long before 9/11. The only thing new is TFR's over amusement parks, sporting events, and politicians.

It seems to me the "TFR system" is being abused by various agencies. This is a direct threat to pilots and our certificates especially in the situation described by the OP. We could be airborne when this TFR goes up and we could easily wander into it. Despite the thorough flight planning 2 hours earlier.

The case of the pilot who was busted for violating a NOTAM issued 8 minutes before he took off happened years before 9/11.

 

[MAKG1]

Pretty much the same, as TFR's were invented long before 9/11. The only thing new is TFR's over amusement parks, sporting events, and politicians.

The case of the pilot who was busted for violating a NOTAM issued 8 minutes before he took off happened years before 9/11.

Ron, that's a really interesting read, but it isn't really about the NOTAM. It's about the pilot using his aircraft as part of an ongoing fight with his opponent. Jerk #1 parks his truck in the most inconvenient place possible -- next to the numbers, even though he knows Jerk #2 is fueling his aircraft and will probably take off real soon. Jerk #2 takes off real close over his head, much closer than necessary for performance reasons. He was busted not for not getting the NOTAM, but for flying less than 500 feet from another person or vehicle when not necessary to take off or land.

The testimony was that he could see the truck. Even if there were no NOTAM at all, all the pieces would be there for a 14 CFR 91.119(c) bust. Frankly, it's a good candidate for 14 CFR 91.13(a).

 

[poadeleted20]

Ron, that's a really interesting read, but it isn't really about the NOTAM. It's about the pilot using his aircraft as part of an ongoing fight with his opponent. Jerk #1 parks his truck in the most inconvenient place possible -- next to the numbers, even though he knows Jerk #2 is fueling his aircraft and will probably take off real soon. Jerk #2 takes off real close over his head, much closer than necessary for performance reasons. He was busted not for not getting the NOTAM, but for flying less than 500 feet from another person or vehicle when not necessary to take off or land.

The testimony was that he could see the truck. Even if there were no NOTAM at all, all the pieces would be there for a 14 CFR 91.119(c) bust. Frankly, it's a good candidate for 14 CFR 91.13(a).

Nevertheless, it shows that they may consider a pilot responsible for knowing about a NOTAM published only 8 minutes before takeoff. Absent the NOTAM, the FAA lacked the preponderance of evidence to show that he knew or had reason to know of the people on the far end of the runway.

 

[MAKG1]

Nevertheless, it shows that they may consider a pilot responsible for knowing about a NOTAM published only 8 minutes before takeoff. Absent the NOTAM, the FAA lacked the preponderance of evidence to show that he knew or had reason to know of the people on the far end of the runway.

The link you posted has a finding in it that the pilot could see the truck and people. Isn't that a "preponderance of evidence?"

 

[poadeleted20]

The link you posted has a finding in it that the pilot could see the truck and people. Isn't that a "preponderance of evidence?"

That says they concluded by a preponderance of the evidence that he could see the truck. That finding by itself does not say what the evidence was.

 

[MAKG1]

That says they concluded by a preponderance of the evidence that he could see the truck. That finding by itself does not say what the evidence was.

Maybe it's me trying to assign logic to law (I really should know better), but I'd expect that if they say you can see people and equipment at the far end of the runway, you have a reason to expect that there are people and equipment there. Whether it's written on a piece of paper deep in the bowels of FSS or not.

Is it really a defense against buzzing some guy out in a field, that it wasn't NOTAMed that he was there?