Talk to your kids...

Due to my wife's job I hear about this stuff all the time.
Makes my really sick to think about kids (and some REALLY young) making this choice.
 
Suicide stuff is weird. Publicizing them results in more, but then the community returns to baseline suicide rate. So who are the extra suicides? Lots of single vehicle motor vehicle accidents are suicides or murder suicides. Was in a club that lost a plane this way, saw an attempt by a passenger on a commercial glider ride. Stupid DNA going and snuffing itself.
 
ClimbnSink said:
Suicide stuff is weird. Publicizing them results in more, but then the community returns to baseline suicide rate. So who are the extra suicides? Lots of single vehicle motor vehicle accidents are suicides or murder suicides. Was in a club that lost a plane this way, saw an attempt by a passenger on a commercial glider ride. Stupid DNA going and snuffing itself.
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We had a girl here a couple years ago that did exactly that. She drove her car head on into a semi. Wasn't an accident. I believe there was a note.
 
Ok, time for eman1200 (no kids, I never committed suicide) to be a doosh. Of course I sympathize, but I look at this like the crashes we read about. 2 kids committed suicide but 14 million are still in school being kids. I'm sorry to those who may take offense to this, and yeah, talk to ur kids, but this is just another overplayed media ploy.
 
eman1200 said:
Ok, time for eman1200 (no kids, I never committed suicide) to be a doosh. Of course I sympathize, but I look at this like the crashes we read about. 2 kids committed suicide but 14 million are still in school being kids. I'm sorry to those who may take offense to this, and yeah, talk to ur kids, but this is just another overplayed media ploy.
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Yeah, why should parents talk to their kids when they have more productive things to do? Oh, wait...
 
eman1200 said:
Ok, time for eman1200 (no kids, I never committed suicide) to be a doosh. Of course I sympathize, but I look at this like the crashes we read about. 2 kids committed suicide but 14 million are still in school being kids. I'm sorry to those who may take offense to this, and yeah, talk to ur kids, but this is just another overplayed media ploy.
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Sandy Hook was only twenty more.:rolleyes: Stalin told us the death of a single Russian soldier is a tragedy the death of a million Russian soldiers is a statistic. Could have waited a couple of years and lost the kids to an IED overseas somewhere and the world wouldn't blink.
Unusual thing is the reporting, usually this stuff is kept quiet to not encourage others. But yeah if ain't your kin/friends it don't matter and you can't go crying over sad stories on the internet.
 
My girlfriend's little sister committed suicide a couple of weeks ago... she had everything going for her (incredibly smart, pretty, funny, always up-beat and seemed happy to me) it was a big shock and just goes to show you really never know what someone is going through, depression can be a serious illness not to be taken lightly and it's not always visible even (especially?) to parents and those closest.:(
 
Ted DuPuis said:
Yeah, why should parents talk to their kids when they have more productive things to do? Oh, wait...
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ClimbnSink said:
Sandy Hook was only twenty more.:rolleyes: Stalin told us the death of a single Russian soldier is a tragedy the death of a million Russian soldiers is a statistic. Could have waited a couple of years and lost the kids to an IED overseas somewhere and the world wouldn't blink.
Unusual thing is the reporting, usually this stuff is kept quiet to not encourage others. But yeah if ain't your kin/friends it don't matter and you can't go crying over sad stories on the internet.
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And i thought i was being the doosh. I clearly said "talk to ur kids" and the comparison of a suicidw to a mass murder of little kids is just farming insane. Climbnsink u r fkng insane.

And Melissa, I'm very sorry for your loss.
 
No, eman, it's not a media ploy. It doesn't get reported. This one did, but only because the kids at school found out about it today, no way to keep it quiet anymore. Eventually the names will get out, the families will then be exposed and they'll have to put up with publicity that no parent wants.

Yeah, there are plenty of kids today that didn't kill themselves, but that doesn't lessen the pain those families feel. Anyone with kids will tell themselves that they will know something is wrong and will step in to prevent it from getting that far. I'm sure these families felt the same way.

Maybe someone will learn something from this and save their son or daughter from the same decision. Just like learning something from a plane accident where we say, "That would never happen to me". I'm sure the accident pilot would have said the same thing.
 
The original link is not working anymore, so I don't know what specifically the article was about (I'm assuming 2 suicides). As Bryan mentioned, I deal with issues like this a lot (I run a non-profit youth counseling agency and am a licensed counselor).

As for the talking and listening -those 2 things are actually extremely key. If you have any suspicion that your child may be considering killing him or herself, one of the best ways to stop them is to ask. Even if you don't see signs, but you know your kid has gone through something difficult, you should ask. Asking about suicide does not cause people to commit suicide, though that is a common fear and a reason some people choose not to bring up the subject.

Listening is just as key. I hear so many parents who say their kid is just trying to get attention. If a child threatens suicide or makes an attempt as a way to get attention, then they still need help, as that is a very unhealthy way to go about it. Take them seriously.

A great resource for parents is: http://www.granthalliburton.org/forparents.html


And eman, I have to disagree that it's a media ploy. Suicide is the 2nd leading cause of death among 15-24 years old. Statistics say that there are over 5400 suicide attempts each day by 7th-12th graders -and that's just known ones. Many go unreported.

Personally, at my agency, I would say that close to 65 percent of the adolescent clients we see are being treated for depression, suicidal ideation, or self-injury (cutting).

This isn't just one or two kids. This is a lot of kids, making permanent choices when their brains aren't fully developed for them to grasp the magnitude of the decision they are making.

Ok, off my soapbox.
 
Both suck beyond words but I'd guessing being the parent of a kid lost to suicide is harder then one lost to random unpredictable violence.
What I don't understand is how you can excuse yourself from emotion over one media event and buy into the other. Is it just the volume of media or the number of dead that allows you to feel for one and not the other?
eman1200 said:
And i thought i was being the doosh. I clearly said "talk to ur kids" and the comparison of a suicidw to a mass murder of little kids is just farming insane. Climbnsink u r fkng insane.

And Melissa, I'm very sorry for your loss.
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Suicide takes more lives than car accidents and more than homicide every year. We just don't talk about suicide, and they don't normally put it on the local news.
 
Matthew said:
No, eman, it's not a media ploy. It doesn't get reported. This one did, but only because the kids at school found out about it today, no way to keep it quiet anymore. Eventually the names will get out, the families will then be exposed and they'll have to put up with publicity that no parent wants.

Yeah, there are plenty of kids today that didn't kill themselves, but that doesn't lessen the pain those families feel. Anyone with kids will tell themselves that they will know something is wrong and will step in to prevent it from getting that far. I'm sure these families felt the same way.

Maybe someone will learn something from this and save their son or daughter from the same decision. Just like learning something from a plane accident where we say, "That would never happen to me". I'm sure the accident pilot would have said the same thing.
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I agree with everything you said. I'm not being heartless, I just hate it when the media takes something and explodes it and gets people believing something is worse than it really is, although maybe I'm underestimating how bad this issue really is, I dunno.
 
eman1200 said:
I agree with everything you said. I'm not being heartless, I just hate it when the media takes something and explodes it and gets people believing something is worse than it really is, although maybe I'm underestimating how bad this issue really is, I dunno.
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I understand your take, but suicides don't usually get reported. So we generally don't get a feel for the size of the problem. Sure we know somebody, or we know somebody who knows somebody, but that normally is the limit of our knowledge.
 
eman1200 said:
I agree with everything you said. I'm not being heartless, I just hate it when the media takes something and explodes it and gets people believing something is worse than it really is, although maybe I'm underestimating how bad this issue really is, I dunno.
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It's bad. I don't know if it's epidemic levels, but it is fairly common. The problem is that too many people think "it can't happen to my kids" and try to deny it. It might not be serious on a statistic level, but for someone near the edge it might be life or death.

I can't stress this enough:
*If your kid mentions suicide... talk to them
*If your kid mentions "not wanting to live anymore"... talk to them
*If you think it is just attention-seeking behavior... there's a reason; talk to them

And for the love of all that is holy...If your kid comes to you about suicidal thoughts or desiring "passive" suicide- don't laugh it off. Talk to them, get them out doing stuff, whatever, but never disregard it or trivialize it. There doesn't need to be an actual suicide attempt for there to be actual harm.
 
ja_user said:
Suicide takes more lives than car accidents and more than homicide every year. We just don't talk about suicide, and they don't normally put it on the local news.
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The reason teen suicides usually dont go on the local news is that in the past there have been entire series of suicides in a community after an initial one reported in the news. Papers that employ actual journalists usually refrain from reporting youth suicides. Of course nowadays with that kind of information spreading via twitter and facebook in minutes, that is a bit of a moot point.
 
I'm not going to click on the link since I have a rough idea of where it leads. There could be no greater grief for a parent or a sibling. I'm sure I drive my kids (13, 16) crazy, but I don't think a day has ever gone by when I haven't told them half a dozen times that I love them. Maybe it helps, maybe it doesn't, but I'd like to think so.

The mother of the teen girl who killed herself several years ago after being bullied online gives talks to parents and teens and I've taken my kids to see her twice. They rolled their eyes but I think they got a little something out of it. I got a lot out of it, the biggest thing being that life is not the same for kids today as it was when I was their age. For one thing, kids today value acceptance by their peers as more important than life itself.

Okay, now back to Mrs. 6PC...licensed counselor, huh? No doubt you're pulling tools from that bag every day for the old man.
 
I have raised 4 young men to adulthood and one more in the process of now. I have seen quite a lot in the past 25 years. I started at an early age with each one having an ongoing conversation about life, problems and solutions, both short and long term. I would use opportunities as they arose to talk about depression, acceptance, peer pressure and suicide. I don't know if it helped or not, but my kids know their value, know that trouble WILL come and they know that if they feel overwhelmed, there is help. I second what others have said, talk to your kids, don't wait for them to talk to you either, initiate a conversation.
 
Excluding people 14 and under, 15-24 year olds have the lowest rate of suicide of any age group in the US at 10.9 deaths per 100,000. The next group is 65-84 and their rate is nearly 50% higher with the remaining age groups being higher still.

https://www.afsp.org/understanding-suicide/facts-and-figures

***Not making a statement, just passing on information that I did not know.
 
kevin7500 said:
Excluding people 14 and under, 15-24 year olds have the lowest rate of suicide of any age group in the US at 10.9 deaths per 100,000.
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Yes, the rate per 100k is low, but as other medical causes of mortality are quite low, accidents, suicide and homicide have large slices in a small pie. In the elderly, with the other slices being so much larger (overall death rate ~ 14,000 for people over 85), suicide is a small slice in a big pie (also, some suicides in the elderly go unreported. if gramps doesn't wake up one day, nobody is going to call for an autopsy if the family member who finds him makes the bubble packs of his antidepressants disappear before the coroners investigator shows up. If a 16 year old dies unexpectedly, most of the time there is going to be an autopsy).
 
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kevin7500 said:
Excluding people 14 and under, 15-24 year olds have the lowest rate of suicide of any age group in the US at 10.9 deaths per 100,000. The next group is 65-84 and their rate is nearly 50% higher with the remaining age groups being higher still.

https://www.afsp.org/understanding-suicide/facts-and-figures

***Not making a statement, just passing on information that I did not know.
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I find this misleading. Yes, older people kill themselves more frequently, and 10 out of 100,000 may not sound like a lot, but in 2011 alone, 4,822 15-24 year olds died by suicide. And that's just the confirmed deaths. Medical examiners have to rule out any other possible cause before they determine a death a suicide, so odds are more than those 4000 were actually intentional. This of course does not include unsuccessful attempts, just the ones that completed. And, even with the stats you found, it is still the 2nd leading cause of death for this age group.

This is really scary to me, as a mother and a counselor. We had an 9 year old in our county kill himself a couple of years ago. Nine. That's a baby.

http://www.suicidology.org/Portals/14/docs/Resources/FactSheets/2011/YouthSuicidalBehavior2014.1.pdf
 
It's sad, it's part of nature trying to get an equilibrium though. We neglect to see the long term outcomes of our actions to overcome nature. Not everyone is meant to get old, never has been. When we invent ways to keep people from dying the way nature has always taken them, then other methods of dying will supplant them.
 
Henning said:
It's sad, it's part of nature trying to get an equilibrium though. We neglect to see the long term outcomes of our actions to overcome nature. Not everyone is meant to get old, never has been. When we invent ways to keep people from dying the way nature has always taken them, then other methods of dying will supplant them.
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I know that when your number is up, then it's just your time to go. And, yeah, if one thing doesn't get you another will. But I think we were born with a certain self preservation instinct, too, and part of that is to protect the people we are responsible for - ourselves and our kids. Part of nature IS humanity and our ability to make decisions, for better or worse.
 
Question for the board:

With all the supposedly concerned parents, mental health issues repeatedly showing up in the news when some kid snaps, and all the millions we've plowed into pharmaceuticals, "treatments", "intervention hotlines", laws, and efforts to get over the lingering stigma over having "head issues"...

WHY does the USA still not have something like Childline?:confused: You know, something to help kids with problems when it's still small instead of hoping a phone box and a stranger can fix things when they're already investigating how many pills they need. (and then sweeping it under the rug, of course).
 
warthog1984 said:
Question for the board:

With all the supposedly concerned parents, mental health issues repeatedly showing up in the news when some kid snaps, and all the millions we've plowed into pharmaceuticals, "treatments", "intervention hotlines", laws, and efforts to get over the lingering stigma over having "head issues"...

WHY does the USA still not have something like Childline?:confused: You know, something to help kids with problems when it's still small instead of hoping a phone box and a stranger can fix things when they're already investigating how many pills they need. (and then sweeping it under the rug, of course).
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Because that costs money and **** you, that's why.
 
Matthew, I'm assuming by the title of your post that you mean parents should not be talking to their children about suicide specifically, but rather that parents should be talking to their children about ... well, everything. Good communication prevents misunderstanding, and certainly there has to be much misunderstanding, if not underlying mental illness, for someone to commit suicide. No one is worthless, and yet that must be the final thought a suicidal person has: "It doesn't matter, my life is worth nothing."

Unfortunately I think many parents don't really want to hear what is going on with their children. I speak from the perspective of someone who has no children, but who was not always heard as a child.

Anyway, a good post worthy of discussion. Life is too precious to be lost to suicide, and anything we -- as parents, friends, acquaintances --can do to prevent it must be done.
 
Eagle I said:
Matthew, I'm assuming by the title of your post that you mean parents should not be talking to their children about suicide specifically, but rather that parents should be talking to their children about ... well, everything. Good communication prevents misunderstanding, and certainly there has to be much misunderstanding, if not underlying mental illness, for someone to commit suicide. No one is worthless, and yet that must be the final thought a suicidal person has: "It doesn't matter, my life is worth nothing."

Unfortunately I think many parents don't really want to hear what is going on with their children. I speak from the perspective of someone who has no children, but who was not always heard as a child.

Anyway, a good post worthy of discussion. Life is too precious to be lost to suicide, and anything we -- as parents, friends, acquaintances --can do to prevent it must be done.
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Good thoughts. Yeah, you don't need to sit down at the dinner table and ask, "Hey, kid. You aren't thinking of killing yourself, are you?" But a simple, "How's it going? No, how's it REALLY going?" is a good way to keep the doors of communications open. Sometimes as parents we forget that we don't always have to 'tell', we really should listen.

But preventing it isn't always possible. Many times things are hidden until it's too late, other times it's really just a matter of time no matter how hard you try. People still have their own free will, even if it's clouded with depression or mental illness. But, at least with your own kids, you can try to get them to open up and maybe find a way to intervene. It's a tough situation.
 
Matthew said:
But preventing it isn't always possible. Many times things are hidden until it's too late, other times it's really just a matter of time no matter how hard you try. People still have their own free will, even if it's clouded with depression or mental illness. But, at least with your own kids, you can try to get them to open up and maybe find a way to intervene. It's a tough situation.
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Yeah, the people who are hell-bent on doing it, for whatever reason, or lack of reason, cannot be stopped.
 
Matthew said:
Good thoughts. Yeah, you don't need to sit down at the dinner table and ask, "Hey, kid. You aren't thinking of killing yourself, are you?" But a simple, "How's it going? No, how's it REALLY going?" is a good way to keep the doors of communications open. Sometimes as parents we forget that we don't always have to 'tell', we really should listen.

But preventing it isn't always possible. Many times things are hidden until it's too late, other times it's really just a matter of time no matter how hard you try. People still have their own free will, even if it's clouded with depression or mental illness. But, at least with your own kids, you can try to get them to open up and maybe find a way to intervene. It's a tough situation.
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Yes, all conversation is good. But sometimes it is actually important to ask if they are thinking of killing or hurting themselves. There are times you don't want to beat around the bush, but be direct. Maybe not at the dinner table, but at a time you and your kid are alone, when hopefully you have already been talking about other things.

And, yes, sadly, prevention isn't always possible. There are times that people commit suicide without warning, or probably more typically, without others picking up on the warning signs. Not all suicides can be prevention, but some can, so we should be proactive in those.
 
This thread has inspired me. All day I have been running around the house asking the kids "Do you want to die?"

They seem a little freaked out.

I even dressed up like a clown to make it cheerful.

I don't think it's working.
 
Mrs. SixPapaCharlie said:
Yes, all conversation is good. But sometimes it is actually important to ask if they are thinking of killing or hurting themselves. There are times you don't want to beat around the bush, but be direct. Maybe not at the dinner table, but at a time you and your kid are alone, when hopefully you have already been talking about other things.
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I'll defer to the experts on the whats and hows. My original intention was to encourage ANY kind of conversation.

I don't know if it would have helped at all in the case of these two girls. But it may help with some else's son or daughter.
 
Matthew said:
I'll defer to the experts on the whats and hows. My original intention was to encourage ANY kind of conversation.

I don't know if it would have helped at all in the case of these two girls. But it may help with some else's son or daughter.
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I've been to 2 suicide prevention training events in the past few weeks, and this is one of the main pieces that keeps being reiterated. People are scared to ask, but you can get a lot of info in response to a direct question. It's awkward to ask (in my 10 years as a therapist, it's still awkward), but it's important if there's any reason that a person may be considering this. It may not help in every case, but it will help in some.

And, of course, any conversation is good. Your child will be more likely to tell you serious stuff if they feel you have been willing to listen to the minutia of their day all along.
 
From what I remember, when I was a teen talking to parents about anything important was the last thing I wanted to do. Often had the result of ruined plans or unwanted restrictions being added so I just generally avoided it.

If you're too controlling or don't have a trusting enough relationship I don't think your kids will talk to you.
 
cowman said:
From what I remember, when I was a teen talking to parents about anything important was the last thing I wanted to do. Often had the result of ruined plans or unwanted restrictions being added so I just generally avoided it.

If you're too controlling or don't have a trusting enough relationship I don't think your kids will talk to you.
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Having been a teen and having had teens of my own - if you don't have any conversation, then you can't get a baseline. It's normal to ask questions and get grunts in return. But there's usually a time when you can tell that grunt means something different than before and is worth further investigation.
 
Mrs. SixPapaCharlie said:
I've been to 2 suicide prevention training events in the past few weeks, and this is one of the main pieces that keeps being reiterated. People are scared to ask, but you can get a lot of info in response to a direct question. It's awkward to ask (in my 10 years as a therapist, it's still awkward), but it's important if there's any reason that a person may be considering this. It may not help in every case, but it will help in some.

And, of course, any conversation is good. Your child will be more likely to tell you serious stuff if they feel you have been willing to listen to the minutia of their day all along.
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I never understood why it would be awkward to ask.:dunno: It's a thought process everyone endures at some level. Why is it that all the subjects that make us common as humans are taboo?:dunno: We are not particularly evolved in the social functions of our brains. The question is are we capable of making that evolutionary jump as our ancestors have with technology, or will it require an extinction to develop further with a redesigned model as with dinosaurs to mammals? Since there's nothing of that caliber waiting in the wings so to say, perhaps Marsupials will have a go.
 
I see how touched many people become about a single teenage suicide, then shake my head as some many of these same people are willing to fight like animals to protect abortion rights.
 
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