taking PPL checkride without night requirements? a pain later to endorse?

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supernova87a

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supernova87a
Hi all,

because of some complications at my flight training place in finding an instructor who's free to do the required 3 hours night work, and my desire to get the checkride over and done with while I have a good amount of free time before the hectic fall starts, I am wondering about taking the private pilot checkride without the required night flying hours.

Can any of you advise me on whether this is possible, and whether it is to be avoided?

From my understanding of the FAR, you can do this, but your certificate will be endorsed for "no night flying". But you can have this removed later by having the required night training, and hopefully no additional checkride required?

Any experiences or advice on this?

thanks!
 
I'm having a tough time understanding how your flight training shop can't get you three hours of night dual in the next week or so. Can you give more details?
 
supernova87a said:
Hi all,

because of some complications at my flight training place in finding an instructor who's free to do the required 3 hours night work, and my desire to get the checkride over and done with while I have a good amount of free time before the hectic fall starts, I am wondering about taking the private pilot checkride without the required night flying hours.

Can any of you advise me on whether this is possible, and whether it is to be avoided?

From my understanding of the FAR, you can do this, but your certificate will be endorsed for "no night flying". But you can have this removed later by having the required night training, and hopefully no additional checkride required?

Any experiences or advice on this?

thanks!
Click to expand...

Unless you live in the state of Alaska, you cannot waive the night requirements. You need to look at 61.107, 61.109 AND 61.110 to get the full story.
 
Last edited:
Greg Bockelman said:
Unless you live in the state of Alaska, you cannot waive the night requirements. You need to look at 61.107, 61.109 AND 61.110 to get the full story.
Click to expand...
Even in Alaska, you have to complete the night requirement as soon as the sun goes down long enough to do it. It's no longer an option to skip the night training an accept a night restriction on your ticket as it was several decades ago. I suggest having a talk with the Chief Instructor or school owner to sort this out -- after all, you're a customer.
 
Greg Bockelman said:
Unless you live in the state of Alaska, you cannot waive the night requirements. You need to look at 61.107, 61.109 AND 61.110 to get the full story.
Click to expand...
I was about to write the same thing but then I got to paragraph c of 61.110

[(c) A person who does not meet the night flying requirements in §61.109 (d)(2), (i)(2), or (j)(2) may be issued a private pilot certificate with the limitation "Night flying prohibited." This limitation may be removed by an examiner if the holder complies with the requirements of §61.109 (d)(2), (i)(2), or (j)(2), as
appropriate.]
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This was added in 2004 and indicates it is possible even if you are not in Alaska.

Here is the whole section and you can see that subsections a and b are on the same level as part c. A and b deal with the Alaska exception
Sec. 61.110

Night flying exceptions.

(a) Subject to the limitations of paragraph (b) of this section, a person is not required to comply with the night flight training requirements of this subpart if the person receives flight training in and resides in the State of Alaska.
(b) A person who receives flight training in and resides in the State of Alaska but does not meet the night flight training requirements of this section:
(1) May be issued a pilot certificate with a limitation "Night flying prohibited;" and
(2) Must comply with the appropriate night flight training requirements of this subpart within the 12-calendar-month period after the issuance of the pilot certificate. At the end of that period, the certificate will become invalid use until the person complies with the appropriate night training requirements of this subpart. The person may have the "Night flying prohibited" limitation removed if the person--
(i) Accomplishes the appropriate night flight training requirements of this subpart; and
(ii) Presents to an examiner a logbook or training record endorsement from an authorized instructor that verifies accomplishment of the appropriate night flight training requirements of this subpart.
[(c) A person who does not meet the night flying requirements in §61.109 (d)(2), (i)(2), or (j)(2) may be issued a private pilot certificate with the limitation "Night flying prohibited." This limitation may be removed by an examiner if the holder complies with the requirements of §61.109 (d)(2), (i)(2), or (j)(2), as
appropriate.]


Amdt. 61-110, Eff. 9/1/2004
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The interesting part is that the a and b section will make you go get the training once you can fly when it is dark but subpart c does not.
 
ah, I just saw that now too,
but subpart (c) refers to §61.109(d)(2), (i)(2), or (j)(2), which are:

gyroplane
powered parachute
weight-shift-control

so not applicable to me. I guess I may be out of luck then, if so.

The reason behind it all is that the flight school isn't the kind with 3 instructors ready every day to take students up. The main instructor who was there almost full time has had a neck injury problem and is out for a while, and the 2 or so part-time instructors drive in from a ways and are having difficulty scheduling something in the next week.

Hopefully I can get this worked out.
 
supernova87a said:
ah, I just saw that now too,
but subpart (c) refers to §61.109(d)(2), (i)(2), or (j)(2), which are:

gyroplane
powered parachute
weight-shift-control

so not applicable to me. I guess I may be out of luck then, if so.
Click to expand...

smigaldi said:
I was about to write the same thing but then I got to paragraph c of 61.110

This was added in 2004 and indicates it is possible even if you are not in Alaska.
Click to expand...

Just goes to show you have to read ALL the referenced parts. :yes: :D
 
IMO---it'd be silly to not have the night training. Where are you located? It shouldn't be hard to find a place you can go to knock all of that out in one night.
 
I find that odd since I love to fly at night. I have come across other instructors who would rather be home with the family or girlfriend and would never make themselves available for night instruction. Since I "have no life" I'd happily do it if you were nearby. Even so, I hope you can find someone willing. That's the CFI effectively doing only the minimum or less. I find that rather unacceptable.
 
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