TAF WTF

MAKG1

MAKG1

Touchdown! Greaser!
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MAKG
I need to fly to Oakland tomorrow around noon. It's kinda obvious it's going to have to be IFR due to persistent marine layer. That's why I got my instrument rating....

But something in the TAF caught my eye:

KOAK 251720Z 2518/2624 29006KT P6SM OVC009
FM251900 28006KT P6SM SCT012
TEMPO 2519/2520 BKN011
FM252100 30014KT P6SM FEW010
FM260300 30010KT P6SM OVC009
FM260700 29006KT P6SM OVC007
FM261759 28008KT P6SM OVC011

The 26th at 1759Z? Really? Not 1800Z?

I haven't seen that before. Not that it matters much, but what's up with that?

The same thing shows up in the SFO TAF.
 
Maybe because 1800Z would be 12:00 noon local and they prefer to have it as 11:59 because some idiots mix up AM & PM when it comes to the twelves?
 
Yes but if it is entered into the system in local time and then the system converts....

I'm just guessing based upon seeing 11:59 AM & 11:59 PM used in other situations because of that issue. Yes I know that a 24 hour clock regardless of Zulu eliminates that problem and we as pilots are supposed to be better at that sort of thing than the average horse but I just know what I have seen.
 
SkyDog58 said:
Yes but if it is entered into the system in local time and then the system converts....

I'm just guessing based upon seeing 11:59 AM & 11:59 PM used in other situations because of that issue. Yes I know that a 24 hour clock regardless of Zulu eliminates that problem and we as pilots are supposed to be better at that sort of thing than the average horse but I just know what I have seen.
Click to expand...
Or for dumb pilots like me, click the decoded TAF!
 
Guys, they do teach Z conversion in private pilot school, right?

1800Z is 11AM, not noon. Oakland is PDT, UTC-7.

The only thing I can figure is that 1800Z is one of the times new forecast models are run.
 
MAKG1 said:
Guys, they do teach Z conversion in private pilot school, right?

1800Z is 11AM, not noon. It's summer.
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Sure do but according to most here, it's a dumb, archaic way of doing things, along with a raw METAR or TAF.
 
MAKG1 said:
Guys, they do teach Z conversion in private pilot school, right?

1800Z is 11AM, not noon. Oakland is PDT, UTC-7.

The only thing I can figure is that 1800Z is one of the times new forecast models are run.
Click to expand...

Damn, I should never had that third drink. Scratch my theory. Pretend I never posted it. I was never here. Rewind the clock. Mods please delete. :D
 
jordane93 said:
Sure do but according to most here, it's a dumb, archaic way of doing things, along with a raw METAR or TAF.
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I find all of them just fine. :)

But then again, I used to record "AM Weather" every morning on my VCR, too. Haha.
 
I'm thinking maybe they only recently switched from a 24hr TAF to a 30hr TAF but some forecaster out there got an incomplete memo.
 
asicer said:
I'm thinking maybe they only recently switched from a 24hr TAF to a 30hr TAF but some forecaster out there got an incomplete memo.
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For Oakland, maybe. Definitely not SFO, though. It had the same 1759Z.

And it's 1800Z in the current TAF.
 
MAKG1 said:
For Oakland, maybe. Definitely not SFO, though. It had the same 1759Z.

And it's 1800Z in the current TAF.
Click to expand...

OK, variation on a theme: Maybe the local NOAA NWS office for that area got a newbie forecaster that is accustomed to 24hr TAFs but not 30hr TAFs.
 
Confused? Using Z time is dumb and archaic? Using raw data for Metars and TAF also?


What time is it in Mumbai? what is takeoff time? Or two days later in Shanghai?

Zulu time and ICAO weather format is worldwide....there is more than America out there.
 
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I seriously wonder if the forecaster wasn't just having a little fun. Ever read the "Forecast Discussions"? Often there are some humorous little tidbits in them. Forecasters are people too, with a (presumably) sometimes boring desk job that they occasionally try to lighten up.
 
denverpilot said:
I find all of them just fine. :)

But then again, I used to record "AM Weather" every morning on my VCR, too. Haha.
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Wow that made me recall that show on PBS (I think) that had aviation weather for about 15' and then a 15' feature on flying, probably back in the 70s-80s maybe. Forget the title of the show though.
 
There are a couple of nearby TAFs that are still 24-hour ones (eg, sjc and lvk). Maybe the forecaster forgot he/she was doing a 30-hour one. :dunno:
 
The "raw" METAR and TAF are archaic - like sending a telegram; time and banwidth have passed it by. . .all caps, shorthand glyphs. Us older guys are used to it, but the format is just silly and obscure now. . .
 
Can scan down a page of TAFs or METARs and collect most of the pertinent information in a very short timeframe. Translate that to English and it's ten pages and far less easy to scan through looking for anomalies in the overall weather pattern.
 
Sundancer said:
The "raw" METAR and TAF are archaic - like sending a telegram; time and banwidth have passed it by. . .all caps, shorthand glyphs. Us older guys are used to it, but the format is just silly and obscure now. . .
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I find it quicker to read than the plain language version.
 
denverpilot said:
Can scan down a page of TAFs or METARs and collect most of the pertinent information in a very short timeframe. Translate that to English and it's ten pages and far less easy to scan through looking for anomalies in the overall weather pattern.
Click to expand...
Great minds think alike! :)
 
People focus on the shorthand as being some "archaic" thing without realizing the shorthand, once learned, means you can cram a massive amount of information in a very small space.

And then you can read it that much more quickly, too.

Want winds? Just float your eyeballs down a page looking for just the wind "blocks". Temps? Same thing. Clouds? Ditto.

You're not always reading every last detail at every airport on a route. But you can scan through them hella fast in the traditional format.
 
denverpilot said:
People focus on the shorthand as being some "archaic" thing without realizing the shorthand, once learned, means you can cram a massive amount of information in a very small space.

And then you can read it that much more quickly, too.

Want winds? Just float your eyeballs down a page looking for just the wind "blocks". Temps? Same thing. Clouds? Ditto.

You're not always reading every last detail at every airport on a route. But you can scan through them hella fast in the traditional format.
Click to expand...
This.
 
Diffrent strokes. . .i can scan plain english fast enough, and number of "pages" aren't too important to me, since it's on a screen I can scroll with a finger flick. I guess if you're printing it, it saves paper. . .
 
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