Suicidal ideation

O

OPN

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I have read several threads on here regarding trying to obtain medical certificates with a history of suicidal ideation, but the posters never seem to post how things turned out. Has anyone with a history of suicidal ideation successfully obtained a medical certificate?

I would argue that anyone who says they've never had a thought of suicide is lying, but it seems like the FAA demonizes this to an extreme degree. I'm not saying it isn't an important thing to evaluate, but ideation is very different than an attempt, and there can be varying degrees of ideation as well.
 
Nope, never thought of suicide. I think to truly have an ideation of suicide, you’d have to be pretty depressed or suffer from the many other factors listed for people who have actually committed the act. I don’t have any of those issues and when life sucks like earlier this year, I still know that I have it better than the vast number of the people in the world. I feel privileged to be able to live the life I have.

My brother committed suicide but he admitted from suffering from depression for years and was kicked out of the Air Force because of it. He had the usual treatments for suicidal ideation including electro shock therapy and none of it worked. I learned from his situation that if someone is really bent on doing it, they’re gonna do it.
 
I also agree, never have I had a thought about committing suicide. And considering the number of high profile crashes where the pilot is committing suicide; I would expect the FAA to continue to take a very hard line on it.

Tim
 
TONS of HIMS pilots admit to suicidal ideation which is happily overlooked. 28 days of inpatient AA and you’re good to go…

This methodology has a TERRIBLE track record, but it’ll get you a 1/c medical.
 
To the OP: I would first say that to normalize one's past is a natural tendancy. But you are incorrect, the vast majority have never considered that to the degree that it was committed to record.

All then incentives @ FAA are against any form of "on record" suicidal ideation. think about it: if it's in your record, it's like a dui- how many other times was it there (and didn't make the record)?
If a medical officer is convinced you're okay, and go out and do a Lubitz what do you think happens to that guy's career?

If the FAA had a choice between certifying a guy whose record is completely clean vs a guy with 5 ideations and a record of depression.....who do you think is lower risk?

So a psychiatrist has to discuss the various shades off gray.

OF couse if it's clearly part of alcohol use disorder and we fix that....and monitor that every 90 days, that's a different "kettle of fish".

At last count there are about 250 cases IIRC worldwide of suicide by airplane....and "weee don't want any of that".
 
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suicidal? No. Homicidal? Depends who's asking :D

Jest aside, I've lost almost as many co-workers to suicide as to aicraft mishaps. It's not an insignificant situation for the military, even in garrison. To wit, none of the suicides I speak of were AFG turkey shoot PTSD related; two were airline lost decade job losses actually.
 
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bbchien said:
...At last count there are about 250 cases IIRC worldwide of suicide by airplane....and "weee don't want any of that".
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On one unusually clear day, I was on flight following when I headed out over the Pacific from Point Reyes in a 182 at 10,500 MSL. I don't think I sounded depressed, because I wasn't, but the controller said, "Say intentions." I imagine he must have been relieved when I told him, "When I get done sight-seeing at the Farallons, I'll be direct Half Moon Bay."

It must be a real bummer for ATC when someone on frequency offs themselves in an aircraft. When I was a teenager, it was a real shock when I heard that the next door neighbor had committed suicide. I didn't even know he was depressed. :(
 
hindsight2020 said:
suicidal? No. Homicidal? Depends who's asking :D

Jest aside, I've lost almost as many co-workers to suicide as to aicraft mishaps. It's not an insignificant situation for the military, even in garrison. To wit, none of the suicides I speak of were AFG turkey shoot PTSD related; two were airline lost decade job losses actually.
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That’s one of the strange things about the military suicide stats. Vast majority of them have nothing to do with combat or PTSD. Generally it’s just problems at home. Like my brother, I know a couple of dudes who did it because they were going through a divorce. There’s definitely underlying conditions but the last straw was the divorce.
 
Palmpilot said:
On one unusually clear day, I was on flight following when I headed out over the Pacific from Point Reyes in a 182 at 10,500 MSL. I don't think I sounded depressed, because I wasn't, but the controller said, "Say intentions." I imagine he must have been relieved when I told him, "When I get done sight-seeing at the Farallons, I'll be direct Half Moon Bay."

It must be a real bummer for ATC when someone on frequency offs themselves in an aircraft. When I was a teenager, it was a real shock when I heard that the next door neighbor had committed suicide. I didn't even know he was depressed. :(
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Probably because you were flying over one of the most populated Great White shark areas in a single engine piston. You’re nuts man! :p
 
Velocity173 said:
Probably because you were flying over one of the most populated Great White shark areas in a single engine piston. You’re nuts man! :p
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Why do you think I was at 10.5K? :biggrin:

There's also the fact that the time of useful consciousness is not great in that cold water, even if you have flotation.

When I was getting my instrument rating, my CFII referred to the Monterey ILS as "the shark approach"!

I previously had flown over the Farallons in a twin at 2K, but it's been years since I had access to one of those.
 
Palmpilot said:
Why do you think I was at 10.5K? :biggrin:

There's also the fact that the time of useful consciousness is not great in that cold water, even if you have flotation.

When I was getting my instrument rating, my CFII referred to the Monterey ILS as "the shark approach"!

I previously had flown over the Farallons in a twin at 2K, but it's been years since I had access to one of those.
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They filmed the Gus Grissom water scene from The Right Stuff around the Farallons. Fred Ward said they didn’t tell him it was a popular Great White area until after filming. He wasn’t too pleased to hear that.
 
Velocity173 said:
That’s one of the strange things about the military suicide stats. Vast majority of them have nothing to do with combat or PTSD. Generally it’s just problems at home. Like my brother, I know a couple of dudes who did it because they were going through a divorce. There’s definitely underlying conditions but the last straw was the divorce.
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Close friend’s boyfriend (both active duty) committed suicide last week. She was devastated. Somehow suicide seems to be an increasing trend, and not just in the military. I’m reading that nurses have a high rate of suicide compared to the population average.
 
A buddy of mine was arrested for domestic violence…right after bonding him out he said to me, “Anyone who says they don’t hit their spouse is lying…”. I’ve never even thought about hitting my spouse, and I’ve never thought of suicide either. Maybe if it happens to you, it’s seems normal like it happens to everyone, but it doesn’t.
 
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It’s a form of narcissism, basically the inability to consider a perspective other than your own. Pretty normal and harmless in reasonable amounts…
 
Tools said:
It’s a form of narcissism, basically the inability to consider a perspective other than your own. Pretty normal and harmless in reasonable amounts…
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Also an act of cruelty toward loved ones.
 
Piperonca said:
Close friend’s boyfriend (both active duty) committed suicide last week. She was devastated. Somehow suicide seems to be an increasing trend, and not just in the military. I’m reading that nurses have a high rate of suicide compared to the population average.
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I’ve personally known three pilots. One thing I noticed in a couple of them, was they were very intense. Like my brother, they had high anxiety. Very opinionated about goings on in life and got fired up about things outside of their control.

This one happened last year. I had heard from friends it was a suicide but the Army didn’t release details til earlier this year.

www.military.com

Soldier Crashed Helicopter Before Running to and Crashing a Second in 2022 Suicide, Investigators Find

The documents obtained by Military.com said Bellew had no history of diagnosed mental illness or suicidal ideation.
www.military.com www.military.com
 
Country Flier said:
A buddy of mine was arrested for domestic violence…right after bonding him out he said to me, “Anyone who says they don’t hit their spouse is lying…”. I’ve never even thought about hitting my spouse, and I’ve never thought of suicide either. Maybe if it happens to you, it’s seems normal like it happens to everyone, but it doesn’t.
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I'm with you ... I ain't hurting her and I ain't hurting me. I've heard guys call their wives some of the trashiest names you can imagine. I've never done that and don't ever intend to. You see, I'm wanting this woman to love me and believe that I love her ... cause I do!
 
Velocity173 said:
I’ve personally known three pilots. One thing I noticed in a couple of them, was they were very intense. Like my brother, they had high anxiety. Very opinionated about goings on in life and got fired up about things outside of their control.

This one happened last year. I had heard from friends it was a suicide but the Army didn’t release details til earlier this year.

www.military.com

Soldier Crashed Helicopter Before Running to and Crashing a Second in 2022 Suicide, Investigators Find

The documents obtained by Military.com said Bellew had no history of diagnosed mental illness or suicidal ideation.
www.military.com www.military.com
Click to expand...
My former baseball coach was the same way. Loud, a bit obnoxious, opinionated, intense. Some would say a little volatile. Always very hard on his son my age. He was actually sent to military school freshman year, they came in and took him middle of the night. But his younger son was the golden child. And up until the old man did it, the younger son was. Was going to Mizzou for pre med. Then after that 4th of July the younger son absolutely unraveled. Started drinking. Dropped out of school. I actually hired him to try and help as his mother said he had some interest in welding. Kid was a lush with no motivation. I ran into him a couple years later and he seemed to have started to turn a corner as he had quit drinking.

His oldest son went the military route. Was a helicopter mechanic, married his high school sweetheart and has a beautiful family.

Being sad or depressed about something is normal. Being so upset that you have suicidal ideation is not normal.
 
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