Suggestions on interior refurb.

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callegro

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Callegro
I am looking into a summer DIY project and am looking into getting a new interior done on my '67 Cherokee 180D. Getting a couple of quotes from local aircraft upholstery shops, it is way over my budget to have a professionally installed interior. I then wanted to see if any of you had past experiences of purchasing materials and having an auto upholstery shop do the seats and possibly more.

What I have on my list is redo seats and back bench seat in leather, new carpet, sidewalls and headliner, replacing some of the cracked plastic pieces. Also, I have been looking at Airtex, so that is also a possibility.
 
Aircraft upholstry is often sub par quality for high dollar prices, look into buying your own material and finding a hot rod shop to do the work. Search this forum with my user name and upholstry for the guide.
 
Airtex is a great company and Dodd Stretch (yep, that's the owner's name) will go over and above on helping you out.

A word of caution about "local" upholstery...some people will give you a lot of crap about not using leather from flame retardant cows. (Forrest Gump voice on..."and that's all I have to say about THAT.") FGV off.
 
Timbeck2 said:
Airtex is a great company and Dodd Stretch (yep, that's the owner's name) will go over and above on helping you out.

A word of caution about "local" upholstery...some people will give you a lot of crap about not using leather from flame retardant cows. (Forrest Gump voice on..."and that's all I have to say about THAT.") FGV off.
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They're all pretty flame retardent, but you want to make sure your interior is well done.
 
Do you have a reference for that? I'd like a copy for my...um...so I can tell other people.
 
CAR3 spells it out. I'm not near my computer but when I get to it I'll cut and paste it. I keep a full copy of CAR3 on my desktop. I can't quote it from memory but it states interior materials must be "flash" resistant and defines that as not burning violently when ignited. In the meantime here's an FAA paper that says the materials need to comply with the aircraft's certification. Read paragraph A.
http://fsims.faa.gov/WDocs/8900.1/V04 AC Equip & Auth/Chapter 14/04_014_014.htm
 
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Here ya go.

http://www.avweb.com/news/maint/182839-1.html

If you send out for burn certs it's really no big deal, you're talking about mailing a little square of your material off for a $50 test.

Airtex is not worth the money IMO; the materials ain't that nice and it looks like a interior out of a box, which it is.

What passes off as a nice "aviation" upholstery job fit, finish and material wise for a $100k+ airplane would be viewed as a crappy upholstery job for even a sub $10k hotrod.

Go find some local car guys and ask who they use, bring them your interior, enjoy the savings as well as having the nicest interior on the airport.

Don't mention it's for a plane BTW.
 
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Enlightening. Thanks guys. Now I can openly admit that I had a local upholstery shop do my seats in leather.

HA!
 
My local car guy said he would do my two front seats and back seat in a 182, in flame certified leather, for $2000.
 
I bought my leather from Tandy (total hides meaning the whole cow, on sale for $65 per hide - dark blue and dark gray) and took it to a local upholstery shop. They charged $275 per seat (4) and that included digitizing and computer embroidering the Piper logo on the back of each one.
 
Timbeck2 said:
I bought my leather from Tandy (total hides meaning the whole cow, on sale for $65 per hide - dark blue and dark gray) and took it to a local upholstery shop. They charged $275 per seat (4) and that included digitizing and computer embroidering the Piper logo on the back of each one.
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How long ago was that? Most hides on Tandy look to be in the $200-450 range.
 
I bought the leather a week after Thanksgiving part of a black Friday sale that was extended. I'm lucky to have two stores here in Tucson so I can actually go pick out the hides myself. They have sales pretty often.
 
Why are you worried about burn certifications on part 91 aircraft interior material?
 
Timbeck2 said:
I bought my leather from Tandy (total hides meaning the whole cow, on sale for $65 per hide - dark blue and dark gray) and took it to a local upholstery shop. They charged $275 per seat (4) and that included digitizing and computer embroidering the Piper logo on the back of each one.
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That's what I'm talking about!
 
unsafervguy said:
Your right about burns certification but the FAA requires an industry certification of flame resistance .

http://cdn.avweb.com/media/newspics/obrien.pdf

Bob
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notice how "Bill' (May he rest in peace) never stated there was a requirement for NON commuter aircraft but only suggests that you prove flame resistance. because there is no approved test for that requirement?
Plus the fact that pure wool and real leather are the standard of the industry and are known to be compliant with "Flame Resistant".
So make your log entry state that the fabrics are pure wool and leather, and comply with FAR 43 for return to service entries.
 
CAR3 para 3.388

image.png CAR 3 part 3.388
Stewartb said:
CAR3 spells it out. I'm not near my computer but when I get to it I'll cut and paste it. I keep a full copy of CAR3 on my desktop. I can't quote it from memory but it states interior materials must be "flash" resistant and defines that as not burning violently when ignited. In the meantime here's an FAA paper that says the materials need to comply with the aircraft's certification. Read paragraph A.
http://fsims.faa.gov/WDocs/8900.1/V04 AC Equip & Auth/Chapter 14/04_014_014.htm
Click to expand...
 
Tom-D said:
Plus the fact that pure wool and real leather are the standard of the industry and are known to be compliant with "Flame Resistant".
So make your log entry state that the fabrics are pure wool and leather, and comply with FAR 43 for return to service entries.
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can you produce documents from the FAA stating that wool and leather are "the standard" and meet the requirements of flash resistant (even though the FAA does not designate a test for that) without testing.

from the same document,

B. Maintenance. Flammability testing of material specimens is not maintenance. Flammability testing is comparable to chemical and physical destructive testing of other material specimens used in aircraft repairs and alterations (e.g., aluminum and steel), which is also not considered maintenance. As such, flammability testing is not work performed on the material to return it to “at least its original or properly altered condition.” A flammability test determines whether a material or component meets the regulatory requirements of the aircraft airworthiness standards, so it may be used as part of a design, repair, or alteration. Flammability testing is not maintenance in accordance with part 43, and authorizing a repair station to perform these tests under 14 CFR part 145 is not appropriate.

so how can you make an entry that says it meets far43 without a document stating that it is "flash resistant"

yes, everybody knows a cow doesn't burn,(except when on my grill) but does the FAA generally accept that without documentation?

bob
 
unsafervguy said:
yes, everybody knows a cow doesn't burn,(except when on my grill) but does the FAA generally accept that without documentation?

bob
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Have you ever branded cattle? I assure you, a cow will burn, and it will stink for a couple hundred yards around....
 
You guys need to reconsider applying part 23 requirements to CAR3 airplanes. Me? I held a swatch of fabric up and tried to light it with a Bic lighter. No flash. No problem.
 
Stewartb said:
You guys need to reconsider applying part 23 requirements to CAR3 airplanes. Me? I held a swatch of fabric up and tried to light it with a Bic lighter. No flash. No problem.
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That's pretty much it too... If you get interior materials for your CAR3 bird from any reputable source, look for anything that meets the Federal Motor Vehicle Safety Standard (FMVSS) 302. That'll be almost anything that was intended for installation in a car. And Presto! You have all of the flame testing necessary for a nice comfy interior.

About 6 years ago, I bought a prefab headliner kit for my 172 from AircraftSpruce. Then I move the plane to Tacoma, WA. The upholstery supply warehouses of Perfect Fit - McDonald Inc was just down the road about 20 minutes away.

I found a barely-used commercial-duty sewing machine on craiglist for $180. And with the help of the folks at Perfect Fit, and plenty of Youtube watching I was able to install a complete interior (including stripping the frames down to the springs and repair/repaint) for about $1500 (including the headliner, carpets, seats (foam and everything), side panels, baggage compartment, new custom-made color matched floor mats, and sewing machine).

The bad news: it took me about 6 months to complete, but I was only down non-flyable while the front seats were out (maybe for a period of two weeks). I also took the Krylon fusion plastic paint and recoated all of the interior plasticware at the same time.
 
As far as the burn certs, if it's meant to go into a car it'll probably be fine, and besides its like a frinkin' $40 test and cert, just send a square off, why not?
 
JoseCuervo said:
Have you ever branded cattle? I assure you, a cow will burn, and it will stink for a couple hundred yards around....
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Have you ever seen a cow continue to burn after the iron is removed?

Ever see a cow simply flash off when the iron is applied. that would be one surprised cowboy, :) SSSsss Poof.
 
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What about seat covers, and floor mats? they are not installed equipment. they can be removed and replaced with out tools or supervision.??
 
Based on the confusion here and other places, I'd just spend the small amount to have them anyway, looks better and helps for both resale and to eliminate questions.

Needed or not, we ain't talking any major money or time for a simple test.
 
image.jpeg
I put a leather AirTex interior in my airplane because it was just easier for me to order a complete kit for the seats, floors, walls and ceiling. I have had it for two years now and have been very pleased with everything except the carpet. The carpet is a bit on the flimsy side.
 
MickYoumans said:
View attachment 45333
I put a leather AirTex interior in my airplane because it was just easier for me to order a complete kit for the seats, floors, walls and ceiling. I have had it for two years now and have been very pleased with everything except the carpet. The carpet is a bit on the flimsy side.
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I did too. I tried talking to local re-upholsterers but the people I found were either expensive and untalented or not people I'd want to do business with. At least with Dodd I could ask a million questions and it looks one heck of a lot better than before.

I really like your armrest, did you do that or did Dodd? I was going to have the arm pads done, but he had me send them to him and I love how they came out. I'll try to find a pic.

If you want thick carpet, see Shelby at TNWings.
 

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I think Dodd supplied the upper portion of the arm rest. I do not remember us covering the old pad. We disassembled the old arm rest, painted the lower plastic portion along with all of the other plastic trim pieces, then attached the new upper pad from AirTex to the original plastic handle. See attached picture.

I had looked at the carpet online at TNWings but just went ahead and got my carpet from Dodd since he was giving me a discount for buying the entire package. I can live with my carpet in the back would love to change out the front panels since they see more wear and tear. I wonder if TNWings would sell just the two large front panels?
 
You could follow the FAA AC for flammability http://www.faa.gov/documentlibrary/media/advisory_circular/ac 23-2a w-chg1.pdf Then sign off that you followed the AC. What I found was the same piece of leather would pass three burn tests in a row done with a propane torch which I believe is hotter than the bunsen burner that is suggested in the AC. https://www.leatherhidestore.com/ Had some nice Italian leather hides on sale. If you get a sewing seam ripper You can take apart the current seat cover and use it as a pattern to cut out the leather. Rustoleum has some nice colors for redoing the plastic panels. Walmart sells foam if you need new seat foam. Even an older but goodie $70 sewing machine from an estate sale will do leather. The Singer Ti needles work pretty well. $500.00 should get you a whole new interior. 20160116_194923.jpg IMG_0628.JPG
 
Since you have some scraps left over you can make classy leather artisan hand bags for your SO. And they will match the interior of your plane. Can't get any more Eddie Bauer than that.20160124_092616.jpg
 
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