Suggestions anyone?

[Kaye]

Did my IPC yesterday and my best approach was the partial panel VOR.....good and bad I guess.

Even tho the Trinidad is not a glass panel, it's got a flight director that couples with everything to make my life easier.......as long as I push the right buttons.....in the right order......at the right time. I don't have a lot of IMC experience, and since I'm not comfortable with my ability to push the right buttons at the right time, I don't actively pursue wx. Cruise in the clouds is fine, it's the approaches I worry about. The few times I've had to do an approach, I've ended up turning off the boxes and hand flying it. At least I can still do that.

So I do an IPC every 6 mos and we work on my button pushing skills, but I'd sure like to improve those skills and my confidence. Any suggestions?

Kaye

 

[Bill]

So I do an IPC every 6 mos and we work on my button pushing skills, but I'd sure like to improve those skills and my confidence. Any suggestions?

Get a safety pilot you trust, go under the hood, and start pushing buttons. I have to do it regularly, as I fly one plane with Garmin430/S-Tec 55x combo and one with KLN-94/KAP-140 combo. Keeping up with two sets of equipment is a PITA>

 

[poadeleted20]

I disagree with Bill. Find an instructor who knows your plane and its systems, and work with that instructor to become comfortable. Simply practicing with a safety pilot may just reinforce improper procedures.

 

[Steve]

A CFI is no guarantee against poor in-cockpit procedures...

 

[poadeleted20]

A CFI is no guarantee against poor in-cockpit procedures...

I concur, which is why I suggested one familiar with the aircraft and its systems. But as a general rule, it's a far better assurance of a positive learning experience than flying with a non-instructor safety pilot.

 

[Bill]

I concur, which is why I suggested one familiar with the aircraft and its systems. But as a general rule, it's a far better assurance of a positive learning experience than flying with a non-instructor safety pilot.

In general, and in a perfect world, you are correct, Ron, get with a good instructor.

So, I did my IFR training in the traditional airplane, and then wanted to learn the fancy ones. This played out several times:

Call instructor, "sure, I'd be happy to help you learn that equipment, and yes, I know how to use it."

So we go flying, and the guy knows how to use the direct button. Wonderful. I want to shoot an approach, guy fumbles for a few minutes, and then pulls the POH for the equipment out of the seat pocket and begins reading. At $30/hr. Right.

I tried this several times, and just couldn't find a good guy to train with, even the club instructors were not up to snuff.

So, I took the books home, RTFM myself, then another like minded club pilot did the same. We then spent a lot of time helping each other learn to fly the equipment. We still safety for each other all the time.

Not ideal, but it got the job done. Paying $30/hr to have ballast sit in the right seat and read the POH don't cut it.

 

[TMetzinger]

I'm not a CFI, but I've got hundred of hours in Trinidads, and am very familiar with the autopilot/flight director options in them. Take a look at the attached document, Elizabeth, and see if it's a good match to your airplane. The last page is a proficiency check I used for myself and others who've learned the systems to make sure they can pretty much use every function the autopilot offers.

If it's useful, great. If it needs some tweaking because your airplane doesn't have VS and altitude preselect, or doesn't have CWS, I can edit it. I'd also be happy to go up as a safety pilot and help you learn the systems.

I recommend ground flying this by sitting in the airplane and making noises and pushing buttons until you know where every button is and what you can expect to happen when you push the button. Then and only then should you go up in the sky and practice.

The vs/preselect module is the most confusing piece of this system, so you always need to be primed to disconnect the autopilot when you use it in case it doesn't do what you thought it would.

Best wishes,

Tim

 

[Kaye]

I know the system pretty well and can efficiently use it for all phases except approaches when I become a bumbling idiot. I do lots of armchair flying the ILS, and also sit in the plane going thru the sequence. But get me in the air and I seem to go brain dead. My CFI knows the system very well, so that's not an issue. Bill has it right.....I need lots of practice in the air.

Two of my 3 partners have been flying this Trinidad as well as the prior one for years, and know the systems very well. They would willingly fly with me (we all have problems staying current).....I'm just embarrassed to let them see how poorly I manage the damn thing on an ILS. Guess I'll have to throw more $$$ at the CFI until I'm comfortable to let one of the partners see me fly.

Kaye

 

[TMetzinger]

Like I said, I'll fly with you if you'd rather not spend the $$ on a CFI. I'm local.

Now, for the ILS, the trick is to fly the thing in HDG and ALT mode until you are on the localizer and below the glideslope, then select the APPR mode. You can eventually start selecting APPR when you are inbound to intercept the glideslope.

Once you're locked on the localizer, then your job is managing airspeed with power (since pitch will automatically maintain the altitude or the glideslope) and configuration (gear and flaps). The autopilot can be a little shaky locking onto the localizer at first, so don't be too alarmed if it makes a couple of left/right excursions before settling down.

Best wishes,

 

[Kaye]

Like I said, I'll fly with you if you'd rather not spend the $$ on a CFI. I'm local.

Now, for the ILS, the trick is to fly the thing in HDG and ALT mode until you are on the localizer and below the glideslope, then select the APPR mode. You can eventually start selecting APPR when you are inbound to intercept the glideslope.

Once you're locked on the localizer, then your job is managing airspeed with power (since pitch will automatically maintain the altitude or the glideslope) and configuration (gear and flaps). The autopilot can be a little shaky locking onto the localizer at first, so don't be too alarmed if it makes a couple of left/right excursions before settling down.

Best wishes,

Tim,

Look at the RMN (Stafford) approach. Did it for the first time yesterday and it's fun cause it's different from most ILS. One of things that catch me is I'm first cruising in GPS mode, and I know to remember to get out of that mode, but it's the timing. That's where the armchair flying doesn't help.....the timing of "pushing buttons" just doesn't match to what happens in the air. My autopilot is pretty solid on locking in on the localizer, but what I found out yesterday is there's a several second delay before it acknowledges capturing the GS. Of course I got nervous thinking I'd screwed something up.....and then I want to push more buttons...YIKES! I'm now wondering if that's what tripped me up in the past when I've tried to use it for real.....that slight delay which made me think something was wrong so I turn off the box and hand fly.

Anyway, how would that work for right seat since I can't acknowledge you as PIC....insurance ya know.

Kaye

 

[gismo]

I know the system pretty well and can efficiently use it for all phases except approaches when I become a bumbling idiot. I do lots of armchair flying the ILS, and also sit in the plane going thru the sequence. But get me in the air and I seem to go brain dead. My CFI knows the system very well, so that's not an issue. Bill has it right.....I need lots of practice in the air.

Two of my 3 partners have been flying this Trinidad as well as the prior one for years, and know the systems very well. They would willingly fly with me (we all have problems staying current).....I'm just embarrassed to let them see how poorly I manage the damn thing on an ILS. Guess I'll have to throw more $$$ at the CFI until I'm comfortable to let one of the partners see me fly.

Kaye

Since you are going the IPC route for legal currency (a good idea IMO), I suggest you spend some time in the cockpit on the ground reading the PFM supplements for the autopilot. Then go fly the autopilot through various scenarios including some approaches in VMC without a view limiting device. It's best to bring another pilot along to watch for traffic (or fly while you read procedures in the PFM) since you are likely to be spending a lot of time with your head down. Without the pressure of flying soley by instruments you can concentrate your brain cells on working with the systems. Once you are comfortable with that, try it under the hood with a SP or CFI. And if you can find a CFI who's very familiar with your systems (a rare find IME) use them for all of these exercises that you can.

The bottom line is that IME one can learn systems much more quickly and completely if you work them in VMC.

 

[TMetzinger]

Tim,



Anyway, how would that work for right seat since I can't acknowledge you as PIC....insurance ya know.

Kaye

I'll go along as SIC... I don't need any PIC time.

When flying tracking the GPS to intercept a localizer, I always like to be in HDG mode about 5 miles before I intercept. That lets me change from GPS to VLOC on the CDI, and then engage the LOC or APPR mode, and I won't get the AP disconnect if the GPS/NAV switches over (the way the Garmin 430/530/G1000 do). It's easy enough to stay on course in HDG mode for those last 5 miles. You can also fly through the procedure turn if needed just by staying in HDG mode.

Best wishes,

 

[bbchien]

I'll go along as SIC... I don't need any PIC time.

When flying tracking the GPS to intercept a localizer, I always like to be in HDG mode about 5 miles before I intercept. That lets me change from GPS to VLOC on the CDI, and then engage the LOC or APPR mode, and I won't get the AP disconnect if the GPS/NAV switches over (the way the Garmin 430/530/G1000 do). It's easy enough to stay on course in HDG mode for those last 5 miles. You can also fly through the procedure turn if needed just by staying in HDG mode.

Best wishes,

Very, very nice guide, Tim.

 

[wesleyj]

you have had the IPC, so obviously your skills are acceptable and you have at least a passable idea how to work the equipment, get a good safety pilot, not necessarily a CFI, go play with it, push the buttons and see what results you get.

after a certain point, riding with a CFI only serves to deflate your wallet, nothing can replace simple ordinary experimenting with the knowledge that you already have, make mental notes of problems or questions and either work them out your self later or talk them over with your CFI and dont forget to have fun while you are doing it.

 

[Bill]

I'm just embarrassed to let them see how poorly I manage the damn thing on an ILS. Guess I'll have to throw more $$$ at the CFI until I'm comfortable to let one of the partners see me fly.

I wouldn't really worry about the embarrassed thing, nothing wrong with not knowing how to use the avionics. I'd still just get your partners to safety for you and help you work it out.

And, you're right. It sure is easy to push the right things on the ground when you have the book open, quite another to get it all correct under the hood and 5nm from your IAF.

 

[TMetzinger]

Very, very nice guide, Tim.

Thanks very much!