Subdural hematoma: physician obligated to inform FAA when patient is a pilot?

[Unregistered]

In addition to the lawyer, you might also try and have a conversation with Dr. Bruce before taking action. Most likely, any report to the FAA will depend on how it's worded: For example, if the rehab doc states that he thinks you will go out and fly, endangering others, regardless of what you tell him, that will be taken more seriously than "he had a hematoma and is currently recuperating, he has indicated he will remain grounded until fully cured".

Well IANAL but it seems to me he's got to say something along those lines to justify "good faith" and to avoid a HIPAA violation.

What is clear to me is that this entire case is prima fascia evidence as to why (1) you should not use your regular doc as your AME, and (2) why you should not disclose your pilot license/plane to anyone that could use it against you in the future. Yes, I love to fly, but I'm very circumspect as to whom I discuss that with in any detail.

I routinely tell my providers that I'm a pilot to impress on them that I need my medical record to be accurate, with no speculative diagnoses or upcoding. I'm definitely going to be a lot more circumspect in the future, that's for sure.

 

[jsstevens]

[snip]

What is clear to me is that this entire case is prima fascia evidence as to why (1) you should not use your regular doc as your AME, [snip]

Can you please elaborate on why or give an example of why?

At least an AME would know how self grounding, etc works. This case seems to be somebody (rehab administrator, not a Dr at all) having lawyers tell them to CYA. I just don't see the leap to PCP/AME combo.

John

 

[Everskyward]

Bingo. And if they report, they are declaring reasonable cause to believe, which I would interpret exactly the same way you do, that they think I am trying or will try to exercise the privileges of my medical cert.

Maybe the best tack would be a letter from my lawyer declaring that I am self-grounding and don't plan to return to flying without FAA clearance. To forestall the "good faith" argument.


Not for self grounding, but for (implied) NOT self grounding. Read the post again. Physician informs FAA under good faith belief that a threat to public safety exists, which doesn't make sense if pilot if self-grounding. You wouldn't expect to see many cases like this in the literature because the number of care providers who would blab to the FAA under these circumstances is vanishingly small.

Your doctor doesn't believe you are self-grounding even though you have stated that you are? Or does the doctor not understand the self-grounding rules (which seems more likely).

Unless the doctor includes some language stating that there is suspicion of you abusing the self-grounding rule, then I don't think there will be a problem. If the doctor insists on writing a letter ask them to state that you are self-grounding during your recovery phase and you will try to requalify for your medical when you have recovered.

 

[Palmpilot]

It's mostly that I don't want to take the chance. If they send a letter requesting "more information" with a deadline, I am pretty well screwed, unless I send in my medical.

And Doc Bruce did say that sending it in would be a way to avoid any "action", I believe was his word. Not sure why he would say that unless there was a chance they could revoke it. My understanding is they can do so at any time, if they believe they have reason. I don't know under what conditions they might consider that they have reason.

I'm not clear on why you're not following Bruce's suggestion to send in your medical certificate for cancellation without comment or explanation. What downside do you see to that?

 

[Unregistered]

I'm not clear on why you're not following Bruce's suggestion to send in your medical certificate for cancellation without comment or explanation. What downside do you see to that?

As I said earlier, that means I will not have a med cert when my next medical date comes around and will have to drive or fly commercial to my AME in another state (which is almost as far as going to see Dr. Bruce). So the option is still on the table, but is sort of a last resort.

 

[Unregistered]

BTW, in case it's unclear, I'm assuming full recovery by then and FAA clearance to fly somewhere in the 1-year timeframe, 6 months if I'm lucky.

 

[Everskyward]

BTW, in case it's unclear, I'm assuming full recovery by then and FAA clearance to fly somewhere in the 1-year timeframe, 6 months if I'm lucky.

Were you assuming that you could clear yourself to fly without recertifying after 6 months or 1 year? I'm confused about your statement that you would need to drive or take commercial as the reason you don't want to turn in your certificate.

 

[PaulS]

I would not say the MD has "reasonable cause" to believe this unless he or she has evidence that you are trying to exercise the privileges of you medical certificate. You are self-grounding. But IANAL.

I also have problems believing the FAA would revoke your medical for this reason. Think of the thousands of pilots who self-ground for disqualifying conditions. We would have heard something if even a small number of these pilots had their medicals revoked for that reason.

You ANAL???



Sorry, couldn't resist, I pretty much hate most acronyms.

 

[wsuffa]

Can you please elaborate on why or give an example of why?

At least an AME would know how self grounding, etc works. This case seems to be somebody (rehab administrator, not a Dr at all) having lawyers tell them to CYA. I just don't see the leap to PCP/AME combo.

John

A number of the AMEs don't do enough exams to really understand how the process works. Folks like Dr. Bruce are the good guys, but not all meet that standard. Just look at some of the other threads here where pilots ran into all kinds of issues because their AME did not follow the process or was "overly cautious".

Not even all Senior AMEs are up to snuff. I talked to one recently that was not up to speed on the (new) hypertension process: he not only wanted an EKG & 3 BP readings, but also a full panel AND a sleep study. All this for a pilot that's not anywhere close to the FAA apnea guidelines. Another AME recited the correct protocol (as outline in the FAA documents)... the second one is a pilot himself.

I don't suggest separating the two as a means to "hide" something, but rather to ensure that one can speak openly about conditions with their primary care doctor without running across a doctor that takes it upon himself to invent procedures that don't exits, trigger revocation when the pilot is following the rules and procedures, or create unneeded tests that run the risk of errors. And yes, errors are real: I had lab tests done one time that were way out-of-whack with prior results, and follow-up tests showed that the out-of-whack ones were in error (the lab got paid anyway....).

 

[Everskyward]

You ANAL???



Sorry, couldn't resist, I pretty much hate most acronyms.

That was your contribution to this thread? OK. Or would you be happier if I wrote "okay"?

 

[Unregistered]

Were you assuming that you could clear yourself to fly without recertifying after 6 months or 1 year?

Absolutely not. But "recertifying" typically means an evaluation (or several evaluations), the results of which can be sent directly to the FAA (or via one's AME). It doesn't necessarily mean a whole new 3rd class exam... unless, of course, one's medical has been revoked or otherwise cancelled.

If I can get through the FAA's evaluation hoops before my next medical is due (yes it's a tall order, but I want to leave the possibility open), I would be able to fly to see my AME.

 

[PaulS]

That was your contribution to this thread? OK. Or would you be happier if I wrote "okay"?

Oh lighten up Francine.

 

[Everskyward]

Absolutely not. But "recertifying" typically means an evaluation (or several evaluations), the results of which can be sent directly to the FAA (or via one's AME). It doesn't necessarily mean a whole new 3rd class exam... unless, of course, one's medical has been revoked or otherwise cancelled.

If I can get through the FAA's evaluation hoops before my next medical is due (yes it's a tall order, but I want to leave the possibility open), I would be able to fly to see my AME.

Ok, I assumed that you actually needed to visit an AME to get recertified. I did, but my case was different in that I needed a first which was expired by then.

 

[jsstevens]

A number of the AMEs don't do enough exams to really understand how the process works. Folks like Dr. Bruce are the good guys, but not all meet that standard. Just look at some of the other threads here where pilots ran into all kinds of issues because their AME did not follow the process or was "overly cautious".

Not even all Senior AMEs are up to snuff. I talked to one recently that was not up to speed on the (new) hypertension process: he not only wanted an EKG & 3 BP readings, but also a full panel AND a sleep study. All this for a pilot that's not anywhere close to the FAA apnea guidelines. Another AME recited the correct protocol (as outline in the FAA documents)... the second one is a pilot himself.

I don't suggest separating the two as a means to "hide" something, but rather to ensure that one can speak openly about conditions with their primary care doctor without running across a doctor that takes it upon himself to invent procedures that don't exits, trigger revocation when the pilot is following the rules and procedures, or create unneeded tests that run the risk of errors. And yes, errors are real: I had lab tests done one time that were way out-of-whack with prior results, and follow-up tests showed that the out-of-whack ones were in error (the lab got paid anyway....).

Thanks. So this is a way to protect yourself from a "bad" AME. OK.

If you have a good one, then it's not an issue. (If you don't know, you don't want to find out the hard way.)

John

 

[DJTorrente]

Interesting in light of the timing of this thread:

No, Your Medical Records Are Not Private

Many Americans think the Health Insurance Portability and Accountability Act (HIPAA) protects their medical privacy, but federal bureaucrats issue thousands of subpoenas every year without prior judicial approval to get around the law.

...HIPAA allows federal bureaucrats to get patient records merely by issuing administrative subpoenas, or civil investigative demands.

These bureaucratic edicts bypass the Fourth Amendment’s requirement that a judge must give prior approval before government can search or take an individual’s property. Officials with the Department of Health and Human Services’ (HHS) Office of Inspector General and the Department of Justice (DOJ) thus have access to any records they believe to be “relevant” in cases of alleged health care fraud.

 

[Unregistered]

I had two long conversations today, one with the rehab director and another one (a bit later) with my lawyer.

The rehab director is absolutely intransigent. I tried to explain to him both that (a) I have no intention of flying before the FAA clears me and (b) it would be illegal for me to do so anyway, based on FAA regulations. Point (a) means nothing to him because I've had a brain injury, thus the decision-making mechanism is affected, so nothing I say regarding my intentions carries any weight with him. He doesn't care about the details of point (b) - his eyes glazed over when I tried to explain "self certification" and why it doesn't apply with this type of injury - and sees his telling the FAA as insurance that I won't disobey the regulations.

My lawyer disagrees with the entire argument. He says that the quoted decision only protects the provider if the patient presents an *imminent* threat, not just a *potential* one. He sounds very familiar with the case the rehab agency's lawyers are basing their position on. He also sneered at the rehab guy's lack of understanding of the FAA's limited authority to prevent even an imminent threat. I replied that the whole thing was CYA anyway, so to the rehab director, he's just putting the liability off from himself onto the FAA.

He plans to write the rehab director a letter, details to be worked out with me tomorrow. Depending on the outcome, he said a restraining order from a judge is a distinct possibility.

I have the feeling I picked the right lawyer.

 

[PaulS]

I had two long conversations today, one with the rehab director and another one (a bit later) with my lawyer.

The rehab director is absolutely intransigent. I tried to explain to him both that (a) I have no intention of flying before the FAA clears me and (b) it would be illegal for me to do so anyway, based on FAA regulations. Point (a) means nothing to him because I've had a brain injury, thus the decision-making mechanism is affected, so nothing I say regarding my intentions carries any weight with him. He doesn't care about the details of point (b) - his eyes glazed over when I tried to explain "self certification" and why it doesn't apply with this type of injury - and sees his telling the FAA as insurance that I won't disobey the regulations.

My lawyer disagrees with the entire argument. He says that the quoted decision only protects the provider if the patient presents an *imminent* threat, not just a *potential* one. He sounds very familiar with the case the rehab agency's lawyers are basing their position on. He also sneered at the rehab guy's lack of understanding of the FAA's limited authority to prevent even an imminent threat. I replied that the whole thing was CYA anyway, so to the rehab director, he's just putting the liability off from himself onto the FAA.

He plans to write the rehab director a letter, details to be worked out with me tomorrow. Depending on the outcome, he said a restraining order from a judge is a distinct possibility.

I have the feeling I picked the right lawyer.

The sad thing about this whole saga is it's going to cost you money, you need to consider this as you move forward. Dr Bruce's advice may be the cheaper way out, or ignoring this whole thing may be a strategy too. Personally I hope you have the financial ability to pay the lawyer to stick it in their ear, this stuff needs to be stopped. Either way, I wish you the best.

 

[Everskyward]

Oh lighten up Francine.

YATOWSI...

 

[Everskyward]

I had two long conversations today, one with the rehab director and another one (a bit later) with my lawyer.

The rehab director is absolutely intransigent. I tried to explain to him both that (a) I have no intention of flying before the FAA clears me and (b) it would be illegal for me to do so anyway, based on FAA regulations. Point (a) means nothing to him because I've had a brain injury, thus the decision-making mechanism is affected, so nothing I say regarding my intentions carries any weight with him. He doesn't care about the details of point (b) - his eyes glazed over when I tried to explain "self certification" and why it doesn't apply with this type of injury - and sees his telling the FAA as insurance that I won't disobey the regulations.

My lawyer disagrees with the entire argument. He says that the quoted decision only protects the provider if the patient presents an *imminent* threat, not just a *potential* one. He sounds very familiar with the case the rehab agency's lawyers are basing their position on. He also sneered at the rehab guy's lack of understanding of the FAA's limited authority to prevent even an imminent threat. I replied that the whole thing was CYA anyway, so to the rehab director, he's just putting the liability off from himself onto the FAA.

He plans to write the rehab director a letter, details to be worked out with me tomorrow. Depending on the outcome, he said a restraining order from a judge is a distinct possibility.

I have the feeling I picked the right lawyer.

I agree that you seem to have picked the right lawyer.

Good luck. It seems as if your recovery is going well. From your writing, it doesn't seem that you are the least bit cognitively impaired. I am impressed that you are so full of fight only 2-3 weeks post surgery. I wasn't even thinking about my FAA medical that soon...

 

[Unregistered]

The sad thing about this whole saga is it's going to cost you money, you need to consider this as you move forward. Dr Bruce's advice may be the cheaper way out, or ignoring this whole thing may be a strategy too. Personally I hope you have the financial ability to pay the lawyer to stick it in their ear, this stuff needs to be stopped. Either way, I wish you the best.

Thanks. The only alternative strategy I've considered is to inform the FAA myself. Here in rehab I'm not in a position to do it the "right" way (in writing), but I could go through my AME. I'm just not 100% sure that would defuse the FAA's actions or I would do it. (Eventually of course, I will have to, but I'm hoping to delay that until I'm recovered enough to think about resuming flying.)

And I'm popping mad about this stuff and as you say, it needs to be stopped.

 

[PaulS]

YATOWSI...

You're A Tall Overly Wise Studly Individual....


Hey Thanks!!!

 

[Unregistered]

I agree that you seem to have picked the right lawyer.

Good luck. It seems as if your recovery is going well. From your writing, it doesn't seem that you are the least bit cognitively impaired.

I'm not confused, but my thinking processes are slower. I've been challenging myself with Sudoku puzzles and my times are distinctly longer than they used to be. On the other hand, my accuracy seems to be better, I'm making many fewer errors.

On balance, I'd say I'm subtly cognitively impaired, but not in a way that a casual observer would notice - certainly not on the internet.

I am impressed that you are so full of fight only 2-3 weeks post surgery. I wasn't even thinking about my FAA medical that soon...

If not for the rehab director's threat, I wouldn't be either.

 

[DJTorrente]

Query: I'm presuming that this rehab facility stands to make five figures or more on your recovery process. The director may have a direct financial stake in the facility, or have revenue-based compensation. Why exactly are you considering to continue doing business with such an unmitigated ass?

 

[Unregistered]

Query: I'm presuming that this rehab facility stands to make five figures or more on your recovery process. The director may have a direct financial stake in the facility, or have revenue-based compensation. Why exactly are you considering to continue doing business with such an unmitigated ass?

"Considering"? I'm a "captive customer". This is inpatient rehab.

 

[PaulS]

"Considering"? I'm a "captive customer". This is inpatient rehab.

Actually he makes a great point, people change hospitals all the time. Unfortunately I don't think leaving will stop the buffoon from making his report. You could certainly consider publicizing your treatment beyond this board though, word of mouth references are extremely important for these businesses (hospitals).

 

[Unregistered]

Actually he makes a great point, people change hospitals all the time. Unfortunately I don't think leaving will stop the buffoon from making his report. You could certainly consider publicizing your treatment beyond this board though, word of mouth references are extremely important for these businesses (hospitals).

The nearest major hospital complex is 100 miles away and in a different state. And from talking to non-pilot friends, I think the public would mostly applaud the rehab director. I don't think knowing what they're doing to me would drive business away, except among pilots.

 

[Matthew]

I don't think knowing what they're doing to me would drive business away, except among pilots.

Bad publicity from violating a restraining order againt releasing patient information might.

 

[Unregistered]

I'm trying to get a question answered that bears on whether I lose anything by sending in my med cert for cancellation. Dr. Bruce has signed off the RB thread without answering or even showing that he's understanding or willing to address my question.

The question has to do with whether the schedule of 3rd class exams survives voluntary cancellation. If it doesn't, then I can't get recertified without doing a new 3rd class exam, after I send in my medical. There aren't any difficult case AMEs in this area for several hundred miles.

I'm somewhat satisfied that simply informing the FAA myself will only trigger immediate inquiries and eventual "retraction", according to Dr. Bruce.

There may be a good solution to my dilemma that's not cheap (lawyer) or a cheap solution that safest of all but sacrifices an option I'd hoped to keep open (voluntary cancellation).

I need to find out what this lawyer's rates are like (tomorrow).

 

[Everskyward]

Why don't you contact Dr. Bruce directly? I will say that his consultation fee is very reasonable and will not approach what lawyer fees would be. Besides, you would be ahead of the game in knowing what documentation you are going to need to be reinstated.

 

[Unregistered]

Why don't you contact Dr. Bruce directly? I will say that his consultation fee is very reasonable and will not approach what lawyer fees would be. Besides, you would be ahead of the game in knowing what documentation you are going to need to be reinstated.

I'm very disinclined to contact someone once they've started to get insulting. See the RB thread for details. Dr. Bruce is a great resource, but he has a problem with patience and he isn't the only source of AME wisdom. I wonder if I can discuss my case openly with my AME without incurring the risk that he will report my condition against my wishes.

I think it's understandable that I'm a little sensitive about that issue right now.

 

[Unregistered]

You ask, he answers, you ask again, he answers, you ask again....
Call the FAA yourself. Spare us the drama.

So what's the answer to my question? If he's answered it repeatedly and I'm missing the answer (because I'm "not all there" as Dr. Bruce implies), then you should be able to tell me the answer in simple language.

 

[PaulS]

I'm very disinclined to contact someone once they've started to get insulting. See the RB thread for details. Dr. Bruce is a great resource, but he has a problem with patience and he isn't the only source of AME wisdom. I wonder if I can discuss my case openly with my AME without incurring the risk that he will report my condition against my wishes.

I think it's understandable that I'm a little sensitive about that issue right now.

I just read what Bruce had to say in the RB. Don't really see anything you should be insulted about, except maybe the troll comment, but I would take that with a grain of salt, he is trying to get your attention. Remember he is a doctor used to giving people bad news, and dealing with people in denial, he's not pulling any punches, but certainly isn't trying to insult you. He is making a pretty strong case for giving up your cert. If I read his logic correctly he is saying that surrendering it is not a denial, whereas if the Rehab guy reports you they may pull your medical and that would be a denial.

I think the disconnect here is that you feel that you are subject to self grounding, which you say you will do, and that allows you to keep the piece of paper and get an SI on your own terms in your own time frame.

I think what Bruce is saying is that ship has sailed. You have to assume the rehab guy will act and this will result in a certified letter pulling your medical and putting you in denial status thereby ruling out SP.

Were it me I would follow the expert's advice, he does this all the time. It's a tough decision, keep the emotion and any hurt feelings out of it, the doc is trying to help and the chances of him being wrong are probably very, very small.

Once again, I hope this works out for you.

Edit: I hope I get this right.... The answer from Bruce is surrender your medical to the FAA, get well, then get expert help to reapply when you are ready. You can't fly PIC in the meantime anyway.

 

[Everskyward]

I'm very disinclined to contact someone once they've started to get insulting. See the RB thread for details. Dr. Bruce is a great resource, but he has a problem with patience and he isn't the only source of AME wisdom. I wonder if I can discuss my case openly with my AME without incurring the risk that he will report my condition against my wishes.

I think it's understandable that I'm a little sensitive about that issue right now.

I don't go to the RB although I am still an AOPA member. I will say that having a discussion with someone who is unregistered is a little strange even though I know why you are doing it. I'm sure Dr. Bruce has seen his share of trolls and people who try to get away with things.

In your position, I wouldn't have a problem discussing your situation with your own AME. If AMEs turned in their patients with disqualifying conditions, how would they do consultations?

 

[Unregistered]

I just read what Bruce had to say in the RB. Don't really see anything you should be insulted about, except maybe the troll comment, but I would take that with a grain of salt, he is trying to get your attention. Remember he is a doctor used to giving people bad news, and dealing with people in denial, he's not pulling any punches, but certainly isn't trying to insult you. He is making a pretty strong case for giving up your cert. If I read his logic correctly he is saying that surrendering it is not a denial, whereas if the Rehab guy reports you they may pull your medical and that would be a denial.

Yes. I understand, and accept that last point. But as to Dr. Bruce, reread the part I quoted where he said I might not be all there because I said that I had said something earlier that he had missed. He edited that part of his post later - maybe even before I posted (I was being poked and prodded by a rehab nurse for a good 10 minutes) - but he said it and I don't see any way to interpret it other than as a gratuitous insult.

I think the disconnect here is that you feel that you are subject to self grounding, which you say you will do, and that allows you to keep the piece of paper and get an SI on your own terms in your own time frame.

Again, I did think that going in, but Dr. Bruce straightened me out on that.

I think what Bruce is saying is that ship has sailed. You have to assume the rehab guy will act and this will result in a certified letter pulling your medical and putting you in denial status thereby ruling out SP.

Yes... IF he acts, which he has already said he will not do until I go home. So there is time still to examine all courses of action and their consequences, and that's what I'm doing.

If the rehab guy complies with the letter from my lawyer (and I can afford to follow through, still not clear), none of this is necessary. Otherwise, if he remains intransigent, or if it's going to cost me an arm and a leg just to get the letter, I'm strongly considering faxing my certificate to OKC marked VOID. According to Dr. Bruce that is as good as mailing in my certificate, and it's the quickest way to get the job done (avoids the PO slowness in this part of the country).

Once again, I hope this works out for you.

Thanks.

 

[Stewartb]

So what's the answer to my question? If he's answered it repeatedly and I'm missing the answer (because I'm "not all there" as Dr. Bruce implies), then you should be able to tell me the answer in simple language.

The most positive action you can take to assure your flying future in LSA is to surrender your cert. You might wait for your doc to report you and the subsequent re-examination notification from the FAA and hope you tap dance right back into the pilot seat but given a brain injury I'd guess you have some time to wait and tests to take. Will you get back into the left seat within the term of your current medical? Maybe, but the wait period/tests/medical standards that you'll have to meet to re-certify are exactly the same whether you surrender your cert or attempt to maintain it. The only difference is the 8500-8 and a general flight physical (the easy part) and it sounds like the FAA may require that anyway. (Did you call them?) If you surrender now your LSA future is protected and your 3rd class future isn't jeopardized. If you want to hold out you need to talk to the FAA to get the info to make an informed decision.

 

[PaulS]

Yes. I understand, and accept that last point. But as to Dr. Bruce, reread the part I quoted where he said I might not be all there because I said that I had said something earlier that he had missed. He edited that part of his post later - maybe even before I posted (I was being poked and prodded by a rehab nurse for a good 10 minutes) - but he said it and I don't see any way to interpret it other than as a gratuitous insult.


Again, I did think that going in, but Dr. Bruce straightened me out on that.


Yes... IF he acts, which he has already said he will not do until I go home. So there is time still to examine all courses of action and their consequences, and that's what I'm doing.

If the rehab guy complies with the letter from my lawyer (and I can afford to follow through, still not clear), none of this is necessary. Otherwise, if he remains intransigent, or if it's going to cost me an arm and a leg just to get the letter, I'm strongly considering faxing my certificate to OKC marked VOID. According to Dr. Bruce that is as good as mailing in my certificate, and it's the quickest way to get the job done (avoids the PO slowness in this part of the country).


Thanks.

Take a deep breath, you've cheated death, you're in a rehab hospital, your life is turned upside down, I can't imagine how you feel, but it can't be good right now, especially dealing with this. Sleep on it and don't dwell on being insulted, I really don't think he meant to insult you, let it go. Make this decision with a clear head.

 

[Matthew]

My take on Doc Chien's comments:

Yeah, he gets frustrated...

His point, turn in your cert. You can't use it anyway. When you do this, they can't touch you because you don't have a cert for them to take any action on. When you reapply, you will follow whatever protocol they require.

Or, you sit on it, unable to fly. Eventually you'll want to renew and will have to report. FAA will want you to follow the same protocol for renewal anyway.

Or, your rehab doc reports you. Maybe FAA sends you a letter that tells you to follow their protocol to retain your cert, but this time there is a time limit and you'll lose your cert if you don't comply. You might not be able to if you aren't fully recovered.

The only one of those paths that put you in charge is the one where you surrender the cert until you are ready and able to get it back.

You can still beat up on the doc thats threatening to report you.

At least that's my understanding of his post

 

[Stewartb]

Read Dr. Chien's last post regarding recovery period. It makes holding on seem unimportant. Given that, I'd send in my cert.

 

[Phoenix]

I say send it in. There is an ego component to voluntary surrender you need to get past. You are still a pilot without a medical. Anyway it falls sending it in seems to have the best result, preempts funny business from busybodies and you get an SI and new medical when able or sport is still an option. As for traveling to get a new one I'm sure you can find a hungry CFI to go along for a bag of peanuts. Best of luck. Heal fast.

 

[Unregistered]

We got derailed over my wording "I still have 2 years on my medical"... and Doc Bruce correctly pointed out that I don't have a valid medical right now anyway. That's when he jumped the shark IMO and didn't try to understand my question. I *know* I can't use this medical but I was asking about what happens if I'm ready to apply for recertification before my next 3rd class date. Two cases: with the old medical still on the books, and after it no longer exists. What happens to my schedule of 3rd class exams if I surrender my medical?

Yes I know that's a hell of a risk for a possible convenience advantage (not having to see my AME first to get recertified) and I will probably end up cancelling my medical anyway - but I would like to know if there is ANY advantage to keeping it, especially since at this point I don't know how the initial interaction with my lawyer is going to play out. Surrender may prove unnecessary, and there is still time. It doesn't take more than a few minutes to surrender my cert from a nurses station.

Please, those of you telling me to "take a deep breath" and "leave emotions out of it" - tell me where have I been illogical about this? I think I'm pretty well on top of the risks and am leaving myself solid outs. The only place I see where emotion might be coloring my decisions is not wanting to engage Dr. Bruce any more about this. Even so, I don't think productive conversation is possible as he refuses to engage with my questions.