Student help

Tristar

Tristar

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Tristar
I've come across an issue I'm having problems solving and was curious if you guys had any great ideas. One of my students is working on his private written exam and is having trouble passing it. I had him take practice tests at home using the cessna kit which allows me to see scores and what questions he missed. We would then go over those questions together. He was getting high scores (80s/90s) so I let him take the test. He failed. I wasn't sure what was going on so I asked if he was using a book or a cheat sheet at home. He said no. He told me he thinks he may have just gotten nervious. My solution for that was to have him come in and take practice tests on one of our spare computers to put him as close to the environment as I could and also be there to go over questions he missed after he was done. His scores were all over the place, one would be a 72 and another would be a 90. The odd thing was it wasn't in any particular topic. He was missing questions like how to calculate cross winds using a chart just as easily as XC planning even though we've gone over it many times. Eventually he was getting steady scores of 80s so I let him take it again last week. He failed with a 62. Am I missing something I should be doing?
 
This sounds weird, but I would tell him to start reading a lot of pilot magazines and websites. I think that the written test stuff is best learned by casual encounter, like a constant stream of non-formal exposure. Some people think that piloting is merely another skill to be learned (you take a Six Sigma course, now you're Six Sigma certified! Congrats!), but it's really a way of thinking and approaching things.
Probably half of how I passed my written was learned by reading non-formal stuff. Read enough, and the answers become almost like common sense.
So, maybe your student is not really into pilot culture enough to be able to think and act like a pilot, and that's what holding him up.
 
Sounds like nerves, all right...test-phobia. Not being a CFI but having studied and taken the tests, the best idea I can offer is to encourage him to take mock tests on his own, regularly, until it becomes a comfortable habit. I did that over months with the Gleim workbooks, and it served me well. I felt no pressure when I walked in to actually take it for real, although I was certainly intimidated before taking the first mock exam.

Almost perfect score, BTW... got one multiple-choice question wrong because I ticked off the wrong choice by accident.
 
I took a raft of practice tests at the Sporty's site, which pretty much mirrors the whole LaserGrade experience. Once I was averaging in the 90s, I took the test, got a 91.

Tell him to take these over and over and over, with timing and everything, and to be honest with himself as to timing and no cheating. When he's in the 90s consistently, take the test. It'll be just like another practice test for him.

If, after all that, he still cannot pass, then he may be a poor candidate for being a pilot - what else will he freeze-up on when stress occurs?
 
You might have him think about having him study using a different set of resources. I enjoyed using the Dauntless iPad/iPhone app for my IRA test. What I would do is sit down and go through all of the questions in a topic but I would just have it show me the answers. I would do that until they all became familiar, and then I would have it quiz me (so that I had to choose the right answer). Having the apps like that allowed me to blast through practice tests several times a night (whenever I had time). I'd just skip over the planning/calculation questions. Once I was nailing all of those, I sat down for a night and worked through all of the flight planning sections in one batch.
 
If a student's nerves are so bad he can't take a multiple choice test for which he has a complete question bank, what will happen when push comes to shove in the aircraft?
 
Sounds like he has a mind-f**k in the "actual" test environment. I used to have problems like this myself taking the tests for advancement in Civil Air Patrol's cadet program (Billy Mitchell Award especially). Aside from getting a no BS straight answer about his frame of mind at the actual test if it's any different from the practice, he could do something he finds calming before he goes to the test to help take the edge off. If he's getting high scores in practice, he obviously has the knowledge. Take a walk around the flightline, go for a jog, go do some yoga, eat some double-fudge chocolate cake, etc. whatever it is that helps him chill out and keep himself in the zone. If he gets jitters while he's taking the test he should try some breathing excercise and mentally tell himself to relax cuz he knows the stuff. Maybe a little pre-emptive positive reinforcement on the way in...you got this man, take your time and relax! Anything that puts him in the state of mind he's in during practice.
 
Tristar, from my 30 years of teaching experience, I offer this unhelpful bit of advice: you are doing everything correctly. 1) You taught him the knowledge, with which he is proficient, and 2) you are simulating the test-taking environment to help him shake out the nerves.

Some students are simply poor test-takers. They get nervous and flustered; they rush and hope it will be over soon. It CAN be overcome--just keep having him do what he's doing, and try to be patient with him. This is definitely not the last time you'll see this.
 
I agree with Telemakhos, if I waited a little bit longer then I did to take the test I would've done much better! Being in the environment of seeing the VORs and intercepting them made a lot more sense when I actually did it then when I read about it. The AOPA Flight Training is also good. You could always make it a game for the student. Maybe if he remembers the question a fun way he'll remember the answers.

My CFI decided that an airplane in a landing configuration is like a nun - Clean/heavy/slow. :)
 
saracelica said:
I agree with Telemakhos, if I waited a little bit longer then I did to take the test I would've done much better! Being in the environment of seeing the VORs and intercepting them made a lot more sense when I actually did it then when I read about it.
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I didn't see where Tristan said her student was in terms of flying the airplane. Has he had any lessons at all? I know that some people advocate taking the written before starting to fly but as someone who did it the other way around, I think it's easier when the written is taken towards the end. That doesn't mean that you don't look at the books until the end, but the concepts are easier once you have seen them in real life.

I agree with some of the other posters in that some people are not good test-takers. Does he have an academic background? Has he been in school recently? Is he reading the questions carefully or is he trying to rush through to get it over with? They give you a lot of time for the tests so there is no reason to rush.
 
I would suggest mocking up the oral with another CFI just to see how is he doing. Some people have problem with written exam form, some have problem with the material. If he has problem with written - not a big deal. Practicing will help him. If he has problem with the material thats a different story. You may have a hard time later preparing him for the checkride.
 
He is a tricky case all around both flying and knowledge based and is a hard student to explain. He is up to XC training currently which is about the time they should have their written exam done. When I asked him what he thought happened, he did say he thought it was just nerves but he didn't show any emotion. Maybe that's silly to try to judge off of but it makes you wonder if he just wanted to get it done, it really was nerves, or he knows the subject one minute and doesn't the next.

I have been telling him exactly what you guys are suggesting, take the practice tests over and over until he knows it and also read through the study guide. I'm at a point that I want to stop his flying until he passes this test but yet I'm at a loss to understand how I know he's ready for it other than going question by question to see if he knows the subject. I really think he's just memorizing questions which, yes, I know that's what most of us did, but I think he's taking it to the extreme instead of thinking about the question and whether his answer makes sense.
 
Any possibility of dyslexia he's never realized?

I have a friend who never realized he was mildly dyslexic until he started becoming a Cisco expert.

He developed some interesting and inspiring coping strategies because he truly loves the job.

It's painful to watch him program a router by hand, which he avoids, but given a few hours to write a complete configuration, his attention to detail is second-to-none. His confide work first-time, every time.
 
Well, technically he ought to have his written exam done by the time he's ready to take his checkride. He doesn't need to have it done sooner.

It sounds like either a nerves issue. I have no idea what the Cessna prep software consists of. I seem to recall that you need to use the Cessna materials given that you're a Cessna training center, but I had good luck with the Gleim software. I went through every question that could be on the exam, and then took practice exams. By the time I was taking practice tests it was easy. Then again, I test well.

I'd also question how well he really knows the material. The high variability in the tests could be a luck issue. Multiple choice isn't a good way of testing a student's knowledge since if there are 4 answers, you have a 25% chance of getting it right no matter what. He might just not understand a number of areas, but in one tests have good luck getting them right, in another have poor luck. If he doesn't feel confident in the material, he'll go into the test, get more nervous because he knows he doesn't know it, and hence the failure.

I'd try to address the knowledge issues until he's really ready to take the test. But you should keep flying with him, otherwise he'll probably get bored and stop altogether.
 
steingar said:
If a student's nerves are so bad he can't take a multiple choice test for which he has a complete question bank, what will happen when push comes to shove in the aircraft?
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Its a good question Michael but written tests and performance in the plane are not necessarily related. Some folks just are't comfortable in a test environment.

spiderweb said:
Tristar, from my 30 years of teaching experience, I offer this unhelpful bit of advice: you are doing everything correctly. 1) You taught him the knowledge, with which he is proficient, and 2) you are simulating the test-taking environment to help him shake out the nerves.

Some students are simply poor test-takers. They get nervous and flustered; they rush and hope it will be over soon. It CAN be overcome--just keep having him do what he's doing, and try to be patient with him. This is definitely not the last time you'll see this.
Click to expand...

I agree with both of the above.

Tristan, how old is this student? Does he have a job or is he still in school. I'd be curious as to how well he performs at work or school.
 
The random results cause me to believe that he's a classic "rote memory vs cognitive learning" case. He's either too lazy or mentally incapable of working through the problems at a sufficient intellectual level to acheive consistent results. That being the case, my approach would be:

1. Have the conversation. Tell him nothing is going to change without some behaviorial modifications on his part, and that the time is now. No more flying until this problem is addressed and some progress towards consistency is achieved. Otherwise you'll both continue to run in circles.

2. Watch him in action. Make up some test questions he hasn't seen before and sit with him while he works them. Make him show you how he approaches the problems, and determine whether his fundamentals are sufficiently sound to have any chance of consistently arriving at the correct answer. If not, determine if you think he can be trained. If so, figure out a plan. If not, cut the cord.

3. Tell him that your abilities as an instructor are judged partially by the number of failures on written tests and that you're not prepared to jeopardize your instruction career simply because he won't put out sufficient effort to pass a frigging eighth-grade level written test.

Tristar said:
He is a tricky case all around both flying and knowledge based and is a hard student to explain. He is up to XC training currently which is about the time they should have their written exam done. When I asked him what he thought happened, he did say he thought it was just nerves but he didn't show any emotion. Maybe that's silly to try to judge off of but it makes you wonder if he just wanted to get it done, it really was nerves, or he knows the subject one minute and doesn't the next.

I have been telling him exactly what you guys are suggesting, take the practice tests over and over until he knows it and also read through the study guide. I'm at a point that I want to stop his flying until he passes this test but yet I'm at a loss to understand how I know he's ready for it other than going question by question to see if he knows the subject. I really think he's just memorizing questions which, yes, I know that's what most of us did, but I think he's taking it to the extreme instead of thinking about the question and whether his answer makes sense.
Click to expand...
 
wabower said:
The random results cause me to believe that he's a classic "rote memory vs cognitive learning" case. He's either too lazy or mentally incapable of working through the problems at a sufficient intellectual level to acheive consistent results. That being the case, my approach would be:

1. Have the conversation. Tell him nothing is going to change without some behaviorial modifications on his part, and that the time is now. No more flying until this problem is addressed and some progress towards consistency is achieved. Otherwise you'll both continue to run in circles.

2. Watch him in action. Make up some test questions he hasn't seen before and sit with him while he works them. Make him show you how he approaches the problems, and determine whether his fundamentals are sufficiently sound to have any chance of consistently arriving at the correct answer. If not, determine if you think he can be trained. If so, figure out a plan. If not, cut the cord.

3. Tell him that your abilities as an instructor are judged partially by the number of failures on written tests and that you're not prepared to jeopardize your instruction career simply because he won't put out sufficient effort to pass a frigging eighth-grade level written test.
Click to expand...

... and to this I would add having him take essay tests instead of multiple choice. It would quickly prove whether he knows the stuff or is just memorizing a key.

Ernie
 
AdamZ said:
Its a good question Michael but written tests and performance in the plane are not necessarily related. Some folks just are't comfortable in a test environment.
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I don't know anyone who's comfortable in an airplane when the chips are down.

My suggestion to the student is to go through the question bank without any sort of key. His instructor can check answers afterwards, though he should under no conditions be told the answer. if he has to look everything up, he'll learn.
 
What is his motivation to fly and, this is an assumption, his motivation to actually obtain the certification? Those two are not necessarily the same. Maybe he just likes to fly but goes haywire over the idea of the responsibility as PIC.

He's sabotaging his efforts and his desire to please his CFI is not strong enough to overcome. Or maybe he just doesn't want to be exposed to the costs of flying...renting, fuel bills, flight reviews, etc.

Also, how old is he and how active in other pursuits? When I started my primary flight instruction at age 17 I stopped just before soloing. My reason is I was engaged in surfing, taking trips to other countries, coastal sailing and racing catamarans. Plus extended hikes and college. Maybe Tristan's student is similarly busy.
 
What about something like this:
"This is not the real test. This is just a practice test where you're not allowed to talk to anyone, nor bring unapproved materials to the computer. We're going to simulate the test exactly and see how you do."

Afterwards, "Oh, I was kidding. That was the real test. Here's your score. Pay up front."
 
Tristar said:
He is a tricky case all around both flying and knowledge based and is a hard student to explain. He is up to XC training currently which is about the time they should have their written exam done. When I asked him what he thought happened, he did say he thought it was just nerves but he didn't show any emotion. Maybe that's silly to try to judge off of but it makes you wonder if he just wanted to get it done, it really was nerves, or he knows the subject one minute and doesn't the next.

I have been telling him exactly what you guys are suggesting, take the practice tests over and over until he knows it and also read through the study guide. I'm at a point that I want to stop his flying until he passes this test but yet I'm at a loss to understand how I know he's ready for it other than going question by question to see if he knows the subject. I really think he's just memorizing questions which, yes, I know that's what most of us did, but I think he's taking it to the extreme instead of thinking about the question and whether his answer makes sense.
Click to expand...

I would take a couple of the questions from the test that he needs to use the "charts" to figure out. (real world flying type questions) But change them from the actual test questions and have him figure it out in front of you. That should tell you whether he knows the material or not. If he does know the material, then personally I would just chalk it up to nerves. If he can't do it and did try to memorize them as you think might of happened, tell him he needs to really study the material and you won't allow him to take it again till he knows it.

As others have stated, some people are just rotten test takers. Their nerves get the best of them even though they know the material.
 
wabower said:
The random results cause me to believe that he's a classic "rote memory vs cognitive learning" case. He's either too lazy or mentally incapable of working through the problems at a sufficient intellectual level to acheive consistent results. That being the case, my approach would be:

1. Have the conversation. Tell him nothing is going to change without some behaviorial modifications on his part, and that the time is now. No more flying until this problem is addressed and some progress towards consistency is achieved. Otherwise you'll both continue to run in circles.

2. Watch him in action. Make up some test questions he hasn't seen before and sit with him while he works them. Make him show you how he approaches the problems, and determine whether his fundamentals are sufficiently sound to have any chance of consistently arriving at the correct answer. If not, determine if you think he can be trained. If so, figure out a plan. If not, cut the cord.

3. Tell him that your abilities as an instructor are judged partially by the number of failures on written tests and that you're not prepared to jeopardize your instruction career simply because he won't put out sufficient effort to pass a frigging eighth-grade level written test.
Click to expand...


Hmm. I never knew students that fail tests drag down the rating of the instructor.:eek::eek:

Ben.
 
N801BH said:
Hmm. I never knew students that fail tests drag down the rating of the instructor.:eek::eek:

Ben.
Click to expand...


Not sure about written exams, but I've heard that too many failed checkrides will have Inspectors taking a look at the CFI....
 
You do now. CFI]s don't get credit for the results of those they sign off for the test, but are in harm's way if the student fails more than once of twice. Or so says our resident fed--but what do they know about life in the city?

N801BH said:
Hmm. I never knew students that fail tests drag down the rating of the instructor.:eek::eek:

Ben.
Click to expand...
 
N801BH said:
Hmm. I never knew students that fail tests drag down the rating of the instructor.:eek::eek:

Ben.
Click to expand...

Only regulation I'm aware of is instructor certificate renewal (61.197) in which one option for renewal is to show > 80% student pass rate on the first attempt at the practical in the previous 24 months - and provided the instructor signed off at least 5 students. But seeing as there are several routes to renew, it isn't exactly a punishment so much as it is a carrot (assuming the CFI likes carrots.)
 
wabower said:
You do now. CFI]s don't get credit for the results of those they sign off for the test, but are in harm's way if the student fails more than once of twice. Or so says our resident fed--but what do they know about life in the city?
Click to expand...

Just curious what regulation they would cite a violation on (sorry for the thread drift - I've seen the above claim elsewhere but have been unable to find confirmation.)
 
Jim Logajan said:
Just curious what regulation they would cite a violation on (sorry for the thread drift - I've seen the above claim elsewhere but have been unable to find confirmation.)
Click to expand...
It won't be an investigation looking for a violation (as far as I know), but I know that the FSDO does pay attention both to pass rates and to failure rates.
 
The thought that occurs to me is to wonder how far the FAA has gotten in changing the test bank for the private written, the way they're doing on the instrument. If they've changed only say 25% of the questions, there might still be substantial random fluctuations from test to test in the number of questions that the student can't have seen before. In that case, if he's studying by memorizing answers to practice questions, it's possible he's just being tripped up by having to show how much he really knows, instead of just what he remembers (modulo, of course, the FAA's usual tendency to word questions so poorly that figuring out the correct answer is an exercise in linguistic detective skills). Like other posters have suggested, it might be better to have him work lots of different kinds of navigation, W/B, etc. problems that are fresh, and not part of the publicly available and perhaps obsolete "historical" test bank.

Yet if it was that, you'd think he'd say something about it to Tristan, since there's no shame in being tripped up on a government test by dismal wording.
 
AFAIK--CFI endorsements for written test's aren't really monitored as there isn't even a method in place to do it. The exam center just looks at the endorsement, they might make a copy of it, but they don't input any of the data into the computer.

Instructor's endorsements for practical tests are tracked and too many fails might result in a visit from your local FSDO.
 
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