Student and CFI killed, KDWH Hooks Houston

Wow such a standard practice lesson a 152 and touch and goes. Makes me think how lucky I am .
 
It was drilled into me from the very beginning that, prior to turning crosswind, in the event of an engine stoppage no more than a 45° turn to land in the least inhospitable place. I then went on to try to instill that in my students.

But the siren song of a return to the runway seems very powerful, and like the sirens can lead one to one's death. Until we're actually there in the heat of the moment, there's no way to know, for sure, how we'll react, so not casting any aspersions here.

Very sad regardless.
 
It was drilled into me from the very beginning that, prior to turning crosswind, in the event of an engine stoppage no more than a 45° turn to land in the least inhospitable place. I then went on to try to instill that in my students.

But the siren song of a return to the runway seems very powerful, and like the sirens can lead one to one's death. Until we're actually there in the heat of the moment, there's no way to know, for sure, how we'll react, so not casting any aspersions here.

Very sad regardless.

Especially at night.

https://www.google.com/maps/preview#!data=!1m4!1m3!1d17841!2d-95.552778!3d30.061833

Winds were generally southerly or calm. Don't know which runway is preferred at KDWH during calm wind night ops.

KDWH 172353Z 19003KT 10SM CLR 26/22 A2986 RMK AO2 SLP110 T02560217 10294 20250 53014
KDWH 180053Z 00000KT 10SM CLR 23/21 A2989 RMK AO2 SLP119 T02330211
KDWH 180153Z 19003KT 10SM CLR 22/21 A2991 RMK AO2 SLP125 T02220211
 
There is 17R-35L the big runway and 17L-35R the unlighted "little runway".

The ATC recording, he was cleared for a TG on 17R, and then a few minutes later said he needed, "to do a 180 back to the runway, engine problems". Probably about the impact time, sounds like he says "clear clear" on the radio...do not know. A real sad situation.

Looks like they impacted the hangers adjacent to the parallel "little runway", coming back around for one of the 35's...but who knows.
 
It was drilled into me from the very beginning that, prior to turning crosswind, in the event of an engine stoppage no more than a 45° turn to land in the least inhospitable place. I then went on to try to instill that in my students.

But the siren song of a return to the runway seems very powerful, and like the sirens can lead one to one's death. Until we're actually there in the heat of the moment, there's no way to know, for sure, how we'll react, so not casting any aspersions here.

Very sad regardless.
Glider training and flying provides 2 possibly conflicting insights:
1) Turning back is entirely possible and doable once at a certain height - and you train to do it. Less than that height, land ahead.
2) Doing some actual off field landings give you a sense of how easily it can be done at some fields, and how to actually go about it.

It would be great if more pilots had that background to get the confidence it might give one in that situation to do the right thing, whatever that is. As a practical matter, you don't really want to practice either operation in an airplane. And most glider guiders never do any off field work. Oh well.

I've flown out of that field (with the strange parallels) and know that it is pool table flat and not very congested.

No aspersions here, just reflections. Just a bad day, RIP.
 
1) Turning back is entirely possible and doable once at a certain height - and you train to do it. Less than that height, land ahead.

Sure.

I can take off from KTYS into a headwind in my Sky Arrow and be at pattern altitude by the time I'm 1/2 way down the runway. Would be silly to land straight ahead off-airport since I could pretty much fly a standard pattern and land.

Other big airports may also make a landing somewhere on the airport an option, as long as the hard "bank and yank" is not required, since that's the killer.

But the key is, it must NOT be one's first reflex - and since the reflex to return is so strong and innate, it must be trained out by repetition.
 
Another factor is we tend to think that if we lose power, we have the ability to act RIGHT NOW.

In real life, count on about 3 seconds of "deer in the headlights" before ANY action is taken. And think about what's happening to airspeed in that 3 seconds.

A turn begun at that point is very likely to go bad in a hurry.
 
Doing T/G's they might have already started to make their crosswind turn. I imagine at night, that not turning back to the airport would be a tought tendency to fight knowing you had clear areas to set it down. The instructor would know he had a clear area east of 17R/35L with the unlit runway there. I trained at that flight school and know that plane. Second accident in 2-3 months with their aircraft.

Truly sad.
 
I've flown out of that field (with the strange parallels) and know that it is pool table flat and not very congested.


I don't know what you mean by "strange parallels", but your description of not very congested is no longer accurate for the area around Hooks (especially if he'd already started a left crosswind turn off 17R).
 
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Another factor is we tend to think that if we lose power, we have the ability to act RIGHT NOW.

That was my biggest challenge to overcome when I got my glider rating last winter! After doing it enough, my emotions caught up with my brains, and I finally felt it wasn't an emergency, just because I released from the tow plane at 1000'!

On the 180 degree turn question, I think it all depends. A few years ago my motor stopped at 500', on climb-out. I immediately started a turn towards the airport. I was much more focused on making a safe turn than making the airport; if I had to land off-airport, I was willing. As it worked out, I was able to land on a taxiway. I'm very glad I didn't ignore that option, and land in the residential area straight ahead, which is often suggested as the only "safe" option. Rote procedures are no substitute for airmanship and judgement.
 
I was taught 500 ft agl a 180 could be made. Less than that you are landing ahead. I was tested on this many times and made the turn under no power. Couple of times it was a dead stick too!

This in a 172

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FWIW I've done more 180 degree turnbacks now then I at least have fingers do to partial power losses, etc. An engine problem doesn't mean it completely failed. When it's still turning and you have the energy getting back to the airport is sure a nice plan.
 
From what I've heard, if you were to do a 180 in a light single (say a Comanche) you'll need to be at least 800-1000 agl, and use a 45-60 deg bank.

Is there a better technique and/or better numbers to use?

Stall speed in a 152 is so low that had they not done a 180, it would likely have been survivable even off-airport into the trees. A shame, but at least we can learn from it.
 
From what I've heard, if you were to do a 180 in a light single (say a Comanche) you'll need to be at least 800-1000 agl, and use a 45-60 deg bank.

Is there a better technique and/or better numbers to use?

Stall speed in a 152 is so low that had they not done a 180, it would likely have been survivable even off-airport into the trees. A shame, but at least we can learn from it.

http://www.aopa.org/News-and-Video/All-News/2011/April/1/Technique-Unconventional-Wisdom.aspx

Barry Schiff did a live (in-plane) demo of this technique once on an old video I had (VHS), either part of the Wonderful World of Flying series (which you can find now, streaming, at www.wwof.com) or his Proficient Pilot series.
 
Another factor is we tend to think that if we lose power, we have the ability to act RIGHT NOW.

In real life, count on about 3 seconds of "deer in the headlights" before ANY action is taken. And think about what's happening to airspeed in that 3 seconds.

A turn begun at that point is very likely to go bad in a hurry.
True, though 3 seconds is forever. I consider myself pretty slow on the reaction time thing but I believe from my experience that part of the problem is that one will tend to act (incorrectly) in less than that time. But no data to support that so...

What I observed when practicing this in my old Maule is that if I pulled the power simulating a total and sudden power loss during climbout, reacting immediately was a bit of a problem airspeed wise. Given the deck angle, I wanted to dump the nose. That was a mistake. The plane is already roughly trimmed for the right speed and the nose falls by itself if you do little pitch wise.... a non-obvious response.

The proper response in that particular plane with that particular setup was to not dump the nose, but immediately bank into a steep turn and maintain more back pressure than expected (because of the bank angle) just like you would on a power-off steep turn. The steepness of the turn required is the difficult part.

If there is a xwind, you must also turn into it. Turns out that comes pretty naturally because you've already crabbed into it when under power so unless some external factor makes you favor a turn downwind, you kind of pick the right direction naturally.

After several practice attempts, I was surprised to see how little altitude would actually be lost when the whole maneuver is anticipated (no response time) and the reaction is optimized. Of course any obstruction really changes the equation. And a narrow runway requires a good bit more turn than simply a 180.

I'm not sure a sudden and total loss of power is very realistic as others have mentioned. And an optimized response is no more likely than a perfect engine out recovery on a multi if it's not practiced on a regular basis. I for one, have never practiced it in my current plane - 350 hours in. I may go out and do that today along with some 'landing straight ahead' visualization.

But I think it's worth practicing at least once just to get some part of the picture in one's head. Dumping the nose in the Maule cost more than I ever would have thought. The turn part I knew and understood from glider flying. Doing countless low altitude turns in a heavily ballasted glider provides some insight too - the speeds must higher due to the weight but the bank angle still must be steep in order to get it around. High density altitudes can change the visual picture significantly. Again, non-obvious unless practiced.
 
Everybody should practice doing the return back to the field after engine out in a simulator, where you can try different strategies. Of course it depends what you're flying but generally for most people of average skill I would say 1000 ft AGL and a 45 degree bank is manageable. But even then if you've never practiced or you have slow responses (which is not unusual where you waste time getting over the shock that the engine has stopped), you could have issues.

My condolences to the CFI and student. Very unfortunate to see something like this happen. I don't know that airport, it could be that he had no options for landing straight ahead?
 
Very tragic. I've been trained that below 500' AGL, on sim engine out, find place close ahead without need to turn back. Above 500' AGL, attempt a 180 degree turn back to airport for emergency landing.
 
Professor Dave Rogers at the Naval Academy did research into this in his E33 Bonanza (that I've flown in! Nice plane...). Scroll to the bottom of this page for the papers.
 
A turn back to the airport after takeoff requires more than 180 degrees of turn.
 
At your home field, you should have a straight ahead field already known and in your memory banks for each direction of departure. If there is one.

Part of my routine when I'm flying with another pilot is to talk about an engine out on take off and what we will do, where we will go, and at what minimum height/distance we will attempt turn back.

My plane with it's STOL capability we will turn back above 600' AGL and within 1/2 mile of the strip. Since home field is 300' ASL, that means the Altimeter needs to be around 900 or 1000 ASL. Otherwise, we are going straight in to a field I already know. Which is no big deal with tundra's and a tailwheel. Just another off field landing.

RIP
 
I don't know what you mean by "strange parallels", but your description of not very congested is no longer accurate for the area around Hooks (especially if he'd already started a left crosswind turn off 17R).
Strange parallels - no aspersion, just impression from memory
http://155.178.201.160/d-tpp/1312/05457AD.PDF

I agree that congestion is a subjective term. I've only been in there twice. Last time was last November.
 
At your home field, you should have a straight ahead field already known and in your memory banks for each direction of departure. If there is one.

Part of my routine when I'm flying with another pilot is to talk about an engine out on take off and what we will do, where we will go, and at what minimum height/distance we will attempt turn back.

My plane with it's STOL capability we will turn back above 600' AGL and within 1/2 mile of the strip. Since home field is 300' ASL, that means the Altimeter needs to be around 900 or 1000 ASL. Otherwise, we are going straight in to a field I already know. Which is no big deal with tundra's and a tailwheel. Just another off field landing.

RIP
I recall Dr Bruce some years back mentioned he had programmed into his GPS possible off airport locations in the event one was needed. Seems to me that you should at least be familiar with the terrain and where you might put it down if needed. When in the pattern at a foreign field it would seem like a good idea to scope out an area if needed.
And I'm not sure I would exclude a roadway just because some DOT might charge me for the obstruction.
Whatever happened to these poor people, my condolences to family and friends. Never a good thing to have to deal with.
 
The options around this airfield, especially to the south, aren't very good. Lots of houses...that probably can't be seen after sunset...
 
Agree on having a field memorized close to airport for emergency landing. To me, of all the maneuvers, practicing sim engine out and emergency descent are probably the most critical to commit to memory along with spin and stall recovery. Fortunately, my CFI has drilled me regularly on these things.
 
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