Stuck on a commercial flight

Michael

Michael

Pattern Altitude
Joined
Feb 27, 2005
Messages
1,735
Location
Cape Cod, MA
Display Name
Display name:
CapeCodMichael
Easy way to fix it: "I have a bomb."

Everyone gets off in a hurry.

Given the circumstances and frustration, I'm surprised someone didn't do it. I would have seriously considered it.
 
We had a big discussion about this on the red board. Apparantly, anyone who thinks this isn't right "Doesn't know how airlines function."

I don't think its borderline criminal at all, I think its downright criminal.
 
Just another example of "no customer service" which has contributed to the demise of the airlines :redface:
 
This is by far my favorite line in this story:


Even though passengers tried to stay calm, confusion reigned. "The bathrooms have gone from a gas station to, 'What's the last concert you've been to?'" said Andy Welch, of Linn Creek, MO.


Can you imagine?!
 
The article mentioned the Northwest incident ( I didn't realize it was way back in '99 ).

I'm trying to remember the details on that - I think Northwest pilots were trying to get their dispatchers to allow them to return to the terminal, rather than sit for many, many hours. I also think at least one of the passengers used his cell phone, made a few calls, got hold of the president of Northwest and got him to personally make the call to allow passengers/planes to return to the terminal. Maybe I'm just remembering this as 'urban legend', but I'm sure the facts are still available.
 
CapeCodJay said:
This is by far my favorite line in this story:


Even though passengers tried to stay calm, confusion reigned. "The bathrooms have gone from a gas station to, 'What's the last concert you've been to?'" said Andy Welch, of Linn Creek, MO.


Can you imagine?!
Click to expand...

I can imagine. Years ago, I went to a Buffett concert at Meriwether Post. There was a line of about 100 people (men and women) to use the mens room. It was shorter than the ladies room line. All of a sudden, a cry went up "Fence", and about half the guys walked over to the nearby fence and let loose. One foolish security guy tried to stop them... he tapped one on the shoulder and the guy turned around and peed on the security guy's shoes... :eek:

True story.

And ever time I read Bruce's signature line, that incident came to mind with a smile.
 
wsuffa said:
One foolish security guy tried to stop them... he tapped one on the shoulder and the guy turned around and peed on the security guy's shoes... :eek:
Click to expand...

That's one of the first things they teach in the academy..let 'em finish before you get their attention. lol
 
I was on the next AA flight SFO-DFW, seated and everything... but they canceled that one before we left the gate. Thank goodness. Stranded in San Francisco, forced to spend another night in one of the greatest cities in the world, compelled to spend another day sightseeing (the best of the trip, as it worked out). Oh the pain!

And I got to fly home with Greg's crew, an upgrade.
 
SCCutler said:
Kinda how I feel when I read some of the lawyer comments one occasionally sees...
Click to expand...
Spike, ya know we love ya. :blowingkisses:

I don't think lawyer jokes are funny unless told by lawyers. And I sure like having one on my side when I need one. :)
 
Greg Bockelman said:
Dammit Nick...
Click to expand...

Sorry Greg, I didn't mean that to be as harsh as it came out, but we've had this conversation before, and I still think there has to be SOME way to get the passengers off the planes.

Airlines in the past (and present too) have been able to function without skyways, and it is the dependence on the skyway that causes this problem to begin with.

This happens too frequently to be just a "meh, let it happen, they should have known better" scenario.

You notice that Northwest actually has an emergency plan for this situation now....
 
SCCutler said:
Kinda how I feel when I read some of the lawyer comments one occasionally sees...
Click to expand...

You what what the first thing a lawyer does when he wakes up in the morning??





He thinks about defending the rights of those who feel they have been violated.
 
Greg Bockelman said:
Quick way to go to jail.
Click to expand...

Probably would have gotten fed earlier, though...

I still don't get why something couldn't have been done sooner. SOMEthing, anything! Divert a catering truck at least.

Greg, does United have any policies related to this sort of thing? What are the potential causes for being stuck for such a long time? I really would like to understand more how this can happen.
 
flyingcheesehead said:
I really would like to understand more how this can happen.

Greg, does United have any policies related to this sort of thing? What are the potential causes for being stuck for such a long time?
Click to expand...

Kent, unfortunately, I have no idea about the specifics of this incident. I wasn't there and there is not enough information in the article. My distrust of anything the print media does has me screaming sensationalism. But I digress.

I don't know if we have policies about this sort of thing. It is not in the interests of the company to keep people on the airplane longer than necessary.

I DO know that unless the delay is more than two hours, once the people are on the airplane, they are not to get off, even if we are at the gate with the door open. I have no idea why that is. BTDT this last week.

There was no excuse in my opinion for not finding a way to get the people off in Austin. It isn't that big a place, and there aren't that many flights, IIRC. So I really have no idea what the cause was there.

I am pretty sure we have no way of getting people off the airplanes if they are not at a gate. We do not have any airplanes with built in stairs since we retired the 727. So unless we are at the gate, we would need some sort of portable stairs. At O'Hare, I am not aware of any available. Maybe Signature has one, but I have not seen it.

As far as the catering trucks go, we don't own any anymore. That is all contracted out. I would think liability issues would disuade the contractor from letting us use them as people movers. We have no control over that.

I was involved in a long delay once. We were taxiing out at O'Hare and they issued a ground stop for all eastbound departures. We were sandwiched in on a taxiway. No way to go forward, no way to go back. We were stuck there for 6 hours or so. No way to get off the airplane. In the meantime, arrivals kept comming. Gates filled up, no one was leaving.

No gates no way to get off the airplane. False imprisionment? No case. Frustrated people? You bet. The solution decisions are way above my pay grade. But I guaran damned tee you that we will not purchase a bunch of expensive equipment for the once every several year problem like that. Capital is too tight.
 
Greg Bockelman said:
I DO know that unless the delay is more than two hours, once the people are on the airplane, they are not to get off, even if we are at the gate with the door open. I have no idea why that is. BTDT this last week.
Click to expand...

Do you know if it's a company thing, a TSA thing, etc.?

I am pretty sure we have no way of getting people off the airplanes if they are not at a gate. We do not have any airplanes with built in stairs since we retired the 727. So unless we are at the gate, we would need some sort of portable stairs. At O'Hare, I am not aware of any available. Maybe Signature has one, but I have not seen it.
Click to expand...

Wow.

There is one at MSN (Wisconsin Aviation). They still use it occasionally too, when a chartered DC-9 or 757 shows up on the ramp. (And they do show up.)

As far as the catering trucks go, we don't own any anymore. That is all contracted out. I would think liability issues would disuade the contractor from letting us use them as people movers. We have no control over that.
Click to expand...

I didn't mean using 'em as people movers. ;) I meant, bring it over to the plane and FEED the poor people on board while they're waiting! :D

I was involved in a long delay once. We were taxiing out at O'Hare and they issued a ground stop for all eastbound departures. We were sandwiched in on a taxiway. No way to go forward, no way to go back. We were stuck there for 6 hours or so. No way to get off the airplane. In the meantime, arrivals kept comming. Gates filled up, no one was leaving.
Click to expand...

That's gotta suck.

I remember when I was little, we were on a flight from ORD to somewhere in Europe that sat on the ground in Chicago for about four hours. They finally allowed us to take off just a couple of minutes before we'd have had to taxi in and switch crews. Luckily, I don't remember it TOO well. :) (as in, I don't remember the bad parts...)
 
BTDT was on and AA flight from Turks and Caicos sat on the plane for 6 hours at the gate. Well really no gate to speak of but just sat infants screaming dumping in thier diapers no AC a real mess.
 
I'll tell you that I can get claustrophobia, especially if the plane is full.

I would after a few hours tell them to open the @#$%^ door and lower myself down. If they call the cops at least they would have to find a way to get them on board.
 
mikea said:
Detailed followup story:
http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/07009/752402-84.stm

They did lower the stairs in the tail to let people walk their dogs in the hold.

I would have bolted down those stairs.
Click to expand...

Well, that certianly sheds more light on the subject. Given that information, the station manager should be looking for another job. And his immediate boss should be worried.

Given that information, that situation was inexcusable and unconscionable.
 
That is horrible.

The worst part is that American chose to let its normal operations come and go without helping the plane in question. I'm not sure, but after that amount of time, I suspect the passengers could have mutinied very easily and just left the plane.

I would have lit a cigarette. That much I know.
 
SkyHog said:
I would have lit a cigarette. That much I know.
Click to expand...

I would have helped you put it out if you were sitting anywhere near me. *cough* :vomit:

Just heard today that even after all that time, the captain was actually in defiance of company orders when he taxied it into an empty gate. :eek:
 
Wouldn't the aircrew had been well beyond their maximum duty time?

Flight Aware shows the first leg's scheduled departure at 0905 EST, actual departure at 1024 EST and Arriving at KAUS at 1337 EST. The continuance to DFW apparently was filed under another flight number. I can't find a corresponding departure to DFW for a MD83.

The reports say it was on the ground another nine hours before they taxied to a gate. Given pre-flight prep, delays, etc, that puts them over fourteen hours. I doubt it was the same crew that flew on to DFW.
 
Michael said:
This is just insane.

http://www.aero-news.net/index.cfm?ContentBlockID=f4cde934-8d8c-4233-804d-ddbef62e736f&

Heres an idea, roll out one of those stairways and let the passengers off the plane. This was borderline criminal in my opinion. Unbelievable.
Can you imagine? You would probably have screaming kids, nicotine crazed passengers, Its amazing someone didn't snap.
Click to expand...

To me, that's a pi$$ poor captain. After an hour or so esprecially with the situation obvious that there was no chance of continuing flight, he should have insisted on a gate or said "Ground, I'm detecting some noxious odors on board, I'm declaring an emergency. I need facilities for immediate disembarkment or I'm going to have to pop the slides." and take whatever fallout that causes. It's part of the job he signed up for. To me, the guy doesn't rate as Capt, rather company monkey. There's more to being Captain than operations, you have a duty to your passengers, and this guy did not meet the burden. Not all the calls are easy to make and sometimes it costs you. It's part of the deal. In my opinion there are very few Captains flying anymore, everyone is just out to protect their job, makes me ashamed to share the title.
 
Last edited:
flyingcheesehead said:
I would have helped you put it out if you were sitting anywhere near me. *cough* :vomit:

Just heard today that even after all that time, the captain was actually in defiance of company orders when he taxied it into an empty gate. :eek:
Click to expand...

Waaayyyyyy to late to find your balls.
 
Greg Bockelman said:
Well, that certianly sheds more light on the subject. Given that information, the station manager should be looking for another job. And his immediate boss should be worried.

Given that information, that situation was inexcusable and unconscionable.
Click to expand...


Yep, but I still hold the Captain responsible above all others. He is "Final Authority". He should have never allowed that to go nearly that long. It's HIS responsability to care for his passengers in the end, no one elses. Once they are on the plane, they are his, plain and simple. If that means he has to take a beating for doing right by them, so be it. He'll win in court when he sues the company for taking action against him, and in the end of it, actions taken would shine a positive light with the public and media, and any retribution would cause even greater negative publicity.
 
mikea said:
Detailed followup story:
http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/07009/752402-84.stm

They did lower the stairs in the tail to let people walk their dogs in the hold.

I would have bolted down those stairs.
Click to expand...

Wow, un freaking believable, the gate agent was denying pax room vouchers. Holy crap there's gonna be some lawyers getting rich off of this. This whole story wreaks of Gross Negligence on many fronts. If anyone of the Pax lived in Alvord County, AA is gonna pay eight figures for this.
 
SkyHog said:
Sorry Greg, I didn't mean that to be as harsh as it came out, but we've had this conversation before, and I still think there has to be SOME way to get the passengers off the planes.
Click to expand...

You bet there is, you pop the slide if necessary and take the heat for it. I was reading that they let people down on the tarmac through stairs in the tail to walk dogs, shoot, I would have led them all out and walked them to the terminal. What happenned here was inexcusable.
 
mikea said:
Detailed followup story:
http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/07009/752402-84.stm

They did lower the stairs in the tail to let people walk their dogs in the hold.

I would have bolted down those stairs.
Henning said:
Wow, un freaking believable, the gate agent was denying pax room vouchers. Holy crap there's gonna be some lawyers getting rich off of this. This whole story wreaks of Gross Negligence on many fronts. If anyone of the Pax lived in Alvord County, AA is gonna pay eight figures for this.
Click to expand...
Click to expand...

I just noticed that they were more concerned about being humane to the dogs onboard than being humane to the humans onboard.
 
mikea said:
I just noticed that they were more concerned about being humane to the dogs onboard than being humane to the humans onboard.
Click to expand...

Of course they are. Can you imagine... the lawsuits would have been filed the next day if they didn't let the animals out. Pita probably had lawyers on standby. The passengers on the other hand are out of luck. Unless you are middle eastern now, the ACLU doesn't care if you sit there for a week.
 
Henning said:
You bet there is, you pop the slide if necessary and take the heat for it. I was reading that they let people down on the tarmac through stairs in the tail to walk dogs, shoot, I would have led them all out and walked them to the terminal. What happenned here was inexcusable.
Click to expand...

Henning you beat me to it. The minute the bathrooms went from bad to worse I would have told the PIC that he needs to either taxi to the terminal or I'm walking. I think I could figure out how to pop the slide. Of course once I start walking I'm sure someone would come get me but at least they would take me to a bathroom.

At one point, families with children lined up to be bused to the terminal, but a bus never came.
Click to expand...

I know that they had Children with them, but this would be the point I would start walking.

Missa
 
Missa said:
Henning you beat me to it. The minute the bathrooms went from bad to worse I would have told the PIC that he needs to either taxi to the terminal or I'm walking. I think I could figure out how to pop the slide. Of course once I start walking I'm sure someone would come get me but at least they would take me to a bathroom.

Missa
Click to expand...

They have pictures on the door to show you how...Besides, It was the Captains RESPONSIBILITY TO HIS PASSENGERS to do it. Don't they teach these guys the ethics of being Captain? I guess not, companies never really did, that has always historically been the Captains job to teach their junior officers and I beleive the industry is woefully shy of true Captains.
 
http://www.aero-news.net/news/comma...9a732ae-48c5-4b8a-a409-d009c1d58356&Dynamic=1


Stranded Airline Travelers Urge Lawmakers To Look At 'Passengers Bill Of Rights'

Tue, 23 Jan '07
Says Legislation Is Badly Needed Due To Poor Customer Service, On-Time Records

The concept of a "Passengers' Bill Of Rights" for commercial airline travelers has been bandied about for years, with little success. The idea has caught fire again, however, after a particularly egregious incident last month in Austin, TX.
A group of passengers who were stranded onboard an American Airlines flight at Austin-Bergstrom International for over eight hours -- with no food or access to bathroom facilities -- called on Members of the Senate Commerce Committee and the House Transportation & Infrastructure Committee Monday to hold hearings on a comprehensive Passengers Bill of Rights.
Click to expand...

How bout required liquid dispersement every ___ minutes based on health recommendations? The last time I forgot my own water bottle (running late and couldn't buy one in time on the secure side of security checkpoint) I swear I almost expired of dehydration.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top