stratus and tethered iphone

Discussion in 'Flight Following' started by Slackyhacky, Sep 11, 2016.

  1. Slackyhacky

    Slackyhacky Ejection Handle Pulled

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    I have a couple of questions.

    I have tried to read many of the threads on stratux. It is confusing where things are at so can someone update me via these questions?

    As I understand it, stratux only receives IN traffic that has an FAA certified ADS-B out system, so you can't see all the people flying around with smaller ADS-B IN systems (stratux, Stratus, Garmin, etc). Is that correct?

    If that is correct, why don't people leave the FAA out of it, and just create these systems that ping each other? Seems simple enough.

    Finally, I am using Fltplan GO. I am using my iPhone tethered to my iPad for the GPS signal. It seems to work pretty well on the ground (I haven't tried it in the air). But assuming it does work in the air, tethering requires the wifi signal on the iPad. Does anyone know a way I could use the Stratux and my iPhone (for the GPS)?
     
  2. Slackyhacky

    Slackyhacky Ejection Handle Pulled

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    Oh one more question.

    What does Status 2S have that a stratux system with GPS (like FlightBox) doesn't have?
     
  3. Shawn

    Shawn En-Route PoA Supporter

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    Not sure I 100% understand your question...but when you have ADS-B out, your OUT signal pings the ADS-B tower and the tower sends out a packet of traffic information based on your position...often referred to the "hockey puck" of traffic. Without ADS-B out, you may still see other traffic if someone has pinged the system, but you are seeing traffic based on their position, not yours...and if you are on the edge of that Hockey Puck, you are not seeing a complete picture on your screen which can be dangerously misleading.

    It was basically the FAA's way of incentivizing everyone to go ADS-B out.

    People often ask why don't people leave the FAA outta it...about a LOT of things!
     
  4. Archammer

    Archammer Cleared for Takeoff

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    This will answer your initial questions partially. The answer is some things. The ADSBIN's have all the functionality of the Stratus systems (minus the AHRS and synthetic vision on Foreflight due to their relationship with Appareo). However it has all those capabilities with most other major EFB's.
    • Weather (FIS-B)
    • Traffic (TIS-B)
    • Traffic (1090ES)
    • WAAS GPS
    • AHRS / Synthetic Vision*
    1) With regard to your initial inquiry, yes the modular units are ADS-B In receivers. Additionally, they display an "ownship out" protocol as well. However, your ADSBIN will not get a transmission from a Stratus or Stratux system, only from Radar (978 TIS-B and 1090ES). So you will pick up other airplanes that may have the same system, but it's not coming from that, it's from their logged radar signature that is broadcast (transponder, ADS-B out, radar, etc.).
    2) Having a transceiver system is exactly what the installed systems are and why they are required to be certified for OUT. To mitigate false bogey's, hacked transmission signatures, etc.
    3) The ADSBIN's have built in GPS, so no tethering other than the wifi connection between the unit, your device and your EFB (i.e. Foreflight iPad/iPhone, FltPlnGo iPad/iPhone, etc.) The unit will propagate all GPS, weather and traffic data directly on your device's EFB.

    P.S. At best, you will use the AHRS and synthetic vision less than 10% of your time, if ever. So even though it is not functioning in certain EFB's, it's not something to spend an additional $500.00 for.
     
    Last edited: Sep 11, 2016
  5. BillTIZ

    BillTIZ Final Approach

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    I just upgraded my STRATUX to latest software and dual receivers on the Raspberry Pi3.
    I configure ForeFlight on my iPad and rely on BadElfPro for GPS data.

    If an aircraft is broadcasting ADS-B out on 1090ES, I can see him. If he has ADS-B out on 978 UAT, I will see him, no FAA ground towers required.

    If he is broadcasting just regular xpndr, 1090Mhz with altitude, ModeC, I will not see him.
    I am not broadcasting ADS-B out. So for that TIS-B data on 978UAT, I am relying on being within that hockey puck from someone who's is broadcasting ADS-B out with the trigger that he can recieve data. I also have to be within line of sight of the FAA ground tower.

    I was demonstrating the STRATUX configuration at the airport picnic table. No FAA ground towers available. We could see local traffic if they were above the line of site horizon and broadcasting their ADS-B data. Flight level traffic FL350, call signs, speed, etc., traffic inbound to the local Las Vegas Class B.

    The small aircraft in the traffic pattern we were not seeing, he did not have ADS-B out. And our airport is below ATC radar coverage, so even if I could recieve an FAA ground station and TIS-B data, that traffic would not have been displayed.
     
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  6. Slackyhacky

    Slackyhacky Ejection Handle Pulled

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    @Archammer - stratux doesn't have GPS, so I would need a GPS signal from somewhere else. I was wondering if you could use the tethered iPhone AND Stratux. Can stratux be hard wired to your iPad?

    @BillTIZ and @Archammer - you both have said conflicting things. Arch has said that an ADS-In will not see traffic unless it came from a certified ADS-out system and using the towers. Bill says otherwise.

    Also bill, will the stratux dual band send an ADS-out signal?
     
  7. Archammer

    Archammer Cleared for Takeoff

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    As I said, the ADSBIN has a full WAAS GPS. Otherwise you need a separate GPS signal. How you choose to do that is up to you, with varied and or poor results

    We are not saying conflicting things, it will pick up out signals without radar sig.

    The dual band ADSBIN, stratux home built or any other put together system is only for the in signals that I described before, 978Mhz and 1090Mhz. None of them provide transmission of ads-b out.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
  8. ifly4fun

    ifly4fun Line Up and Wait

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    Shane has described the units perfectly.. there was no conflict of statements, and yes most stratux (and all stratus) have GPS. Since stratux is a homebuilt kit, you can elect to install the GPS chip or not, just like you can elect to install the second band receiver. If you're truly interested, Shane's kit is hard to beat for the price.
     
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  9. BillTIZ

    BillTIZ Final Approach

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    Stratux and Status do not broadcast ADS-D, they are receivers only as far as ADS-B is concerned.
    They do operate as a wifi broadcast to get data to various map programs running on iPad and other tablets.

    I have not seen stratus or Stratux hard wired to a tablet.

    If you have a 1090ES receiver on your Stratux or Stratus, you will receive 1090ES data directly from the broadcasting aircraft. No FAA ground station needed. If the aircraft is just broadcasting Mode C or Mode S on 1090 MHz that is not ADS-B data and it will not be displayed. Need the 1090ES or Extended Squitter that has the ADS-B coordinate data for Stratux or Stratus to process it.

    FAA ADS-B TIS-B data is broadcast on 978MHz UAT only. Also FAA UDS-B FIS-B data is only broadcast on 978MHz UAT freq. So line of sight to ground stations is required for FIS-B and TIS-B data.
     
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  10. BillTIZ

    BillTIZ Final Approach

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    Slacky, I do not know if tethering an iPhone or other phone with GPS will transmit the GPS data to the tablet running the flight software.

    My Stratux broadcasts on wifi, the BadElfPro uses Bluetooth. Most tablets can only connect to one wifi source at a time.

    Depends on how your phone tethers.
     
  11. BillTIZ

    BillTIZ Final Approach

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    ADS-B out is only approved by the FAA on panel mount systems that meet criteria. No portable units.

    There is some leeway on certification for experimental aircraft, but the unit installed must meet TSO standards, but need not hold the TSO certificate.
     
  12. Slackyhacky

    Slackyhacky Ejection Handle Pulled

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    Who is Shane?

    So I think I get it now.

    But I still think - why don't private companies create a little box that broadcasts GPS position on a frequency like 1090 (that most people have) that would be readable by these ADS-B boxes, or something similar?
     
  13. midlifeflyer

    midlifeflyer Touchdown! Greaser!

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    Really? The fact that aviation is a regulated activity and we can't just leave the FAA out if it aside, a universal system that will be broadcasting and reading data from aircraft from a Cessna 152 to a jumbo jet in order to identify each other in busy airspace to avoid conflicts being built without coordinated guidance, seems "simple enough" to you?
     
  14. midlifeflyer

    midlifeflyer Touchdown! Greaser!

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    Companies do exactly that. But they do it under rules and regulations that are designed for not only consistency but to impose a standard that has the goal of reliability.

    Just like most onboard equipment. Sure, your 10 year old handheld GPS may be just fine for telling you your position, but the regulatory world, for better or worse, wants to decrease the likelihood that it will not work as part of a system primarily designed to avoid traffic conflict.

    Folks can and do argue the necessity and advisability of that regulatory structure, as well as its need for specific items, and your comments are more to that socio-political discussion,
     
  15. ifly4fun

    ifly4fun Line Up and Wait

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    I'm taking a wild guess, but I would assume there are some rules with the FCC regarding the frequency space and its use - there may be some agreement with the FAA that only certified equipment can transmit on those frequencies which may prohibit boot leg transmitters.. (Again, this is a guess and the band could be completely open). Shane is @Archammer check out his website for prebuilt stratux:
    Shane Schmidt
    Owner

    TheSquawkShoppe.com
    Creating custom hand made headsets since 2012
     
  16. Lindberg

    Lindberg En-Route

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    FLARM is similar to what you are suggesting. It will report the position of any other aircraft with a transponder, but only transmits to other aircraft with FLARM. It's not very popular in the US.

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/FLARM
     
  17. BillTIZ

    BillTIZ Final Approach

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    Oh, don't get them confused with FLARM. Gliders use it, powered airplanes, not.

    Anything broadcasting ADS-B data OUT must meet certain standards, and FAA only allows them to be permanently installed, each ID code is tied to an aircraft.
     
  18. Slackyhacky

    Slackyhacky Ejection Handle Pulled

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    Not really. I don't trust the FAA to be very altruistic towards the aviation. Just like most other governing bodies, I suspect they are more concerned about keeping elected officials happy and their pockets filled by supporting industry.

    It wouldn't be complicated at all. I can see almost instantly where my kids are at all times with Find my Friends app. Pinging 3 numbers (long/lat/alt) on an already used frequency seems like something really smart people could easily figure out and sell in a tiny device. I'm surprised it hasn't happened. FLARM sounds like right direction - but again, leave the regulators out of it. Technologies and standards are adopted by organizations all the time to allow easy cross talk between different systems/platforms - and this has nothing to do with government regulation.
     
    Last edited: Sep 22, 2016
  19. Slackyhacky

    Slackyhacky Ejection Handle Pulled

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    By the way - using Fltplan GO, tethered, up in the air - breadcrumbs tracks my position - so it MAY be getting GPS data from my phone.

    However, strangely, on the ground - without my iPhone tethered, my iPad (that doesn't have GPS) also tracks my position (even with WIFI turned off). It is very strange.

    I wonder if my iPad has a GPS unit in it but was sold without one.

    I know that when i worked at a microchip manufacturing company, we would "sell" a slow, medium, and fast chipset for a different price - but in reality - they were all the exact same chipset since it cost the same to produce and was easier just to make the process for one chip. I wonder if it is the same with the iPad.
     
  20. denverpilot

    denverpilot Tied Down PoA Supporter

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    If your iPad has the chipset for cellular, it has GPS functionality. (Cellular service doesn't need to be active.)
    No cellular, no GPS.