"straight in" question

ebykowsky

ebykowsky

Cleared for Takeoff
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goalstop
Controlled airport. I'm 10nm out to the east-northeast. Approach tells me "fly direct to the airport" (doesn't say at pilot's discretion) cleared for the straight-in visual for 18, contact tower on .9. Well, I'm about 3nm north and 7nm east. I call tower and say "N321AB on the straight in approach, 18." While I realized I wasn't, that's what the approach controller gave me, and I just kind of went with it. Then, tower got a bit snippy first saying "who's on the straight in?!" Then when I replied with my call sign he replied by telling me that I wasn't on the straight in, I was on left base (in a snippy manner, but that's not pertinent to the story). Anyway, what should I have done differently? Told approach that the direct to and straight in weren't feasible; given a different call to tower; or just done the same thing?
 
I would contact tower with location and altitude and let him take it from there.
 
People make mistakes, controllers and pilots. Read back instructions, ask questions, eyes outside the airplane, fly the airplane, move on.
 
And don't worry about the snippy tone. Every once in a while you run into someone having a bad day. It happens.
 
Direct to the airport means direct to the airport. :D Usually, you'll get "expect straight in runway 18 tower 118.9" as opposed to straight in runway 18. :D If I am pretty much lined up for the runway, I set up a straight in, unless the tower tells me otherwise and they usually do. :rolleyes2:
 
Hmmm, I probably would have said something like Bugsmasher 1234 7 East of the field cleared for a straight in approach RWY XX

He knows where you are and what you at least think you heard. Gives them a chance to correct.

If they say nothing or respond with altimeter then figure your best intercept for a straight in and go for it.
 
OK thanks, and the only reason I bring up the snippiness is to show he wasn't very happy with having to correct me. I honestly couldn't have cared less what he thought of me.
 
About two years ago I was flying out of a towered field here in Cincinnati. It was cold and my breath was freezing on the side windows so it was hard to see. I let the Tower know when I was finished with my run up and had heard them clear a gulfstream to land a minute or so earlier but didn't catch the runway.

I was then cleared to take off. My hand went to the throttle and my feet came off the brakes while my head turned to make sure no one was landing and about the same time I saw the Gulfstream I heard the landing pilot call 1/4 mile final. When the tower heard that he started frantically telling me to stop (which I had already done). I had only moved about a foot but the controller was quite excited.

The controller hatefully asked who gave me a take off clearance. the Gulfstream pilot identified himself and said You Did.

The next call was N5932V cleared for take off, have a good day.

Anyway I digress. Just saying that if the instructions we receive are not clear question them.
 
Remember, if a pilot screws up he dies, if a controller screws up the pilot dies. :rolleyes:
tmyers said:
About two years ago I was flying out of a towered field here in Cincinnati. It was cold and my breath was freezing on the side windows so it was hard to see. I let the Tower know when I was finished with my run up and had heard them clear a gulfstream to land a minute or so earlier but didn't catch the runway.

I was then cleared to take off. My hand went to the throttle and my feet came off the brakes while my head turned to make sure no one was landing and about the same time I saw the Gulfstream I heard the landing pilot call 1/4 mile final. When the tower heard that he started frantically telling me to stop (which I had already done). I had only moved about a foot but the controller was quite excited.

The controller hatefully asked who gave me a take off clearance. the Gulfstream pilot identified himself and said You Did.

The next call was N5932V cleared for take off, have a good day.

Anyway I digress. Just saying that if the instructions we receive are not clear question them.
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N747JB said:
Remember, if a pilot screws up he dies, if a controller screws up the pilot dies. :rolleyes:
Click to expand...

We say the same thing to new trainees.

Mistakes happen. Controllers can and do forget things.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD
 
It was one of those; I am sure he cleared me for the takeoff, but in a second of doubt I wasn't positive.

I always look and was not even close to crossing the RW hold short line, so in reality not an issue at all, but could have been.

I actually know some of the guys in that tower and had just finished an HVAC renovation for the Cab. I gave em a hard time next time I saw them.
 
MarkZ said:
We say the same thing to new trainees.

Mistakes happen. Controllers can and do forget things.
Click to expand...

Day-in and day-out you folks do pretty good. Ultimately the loose nut behind the yoke has to do the (mostly) right thing but the voices in the head(set) sure help.
 
ebykowsky said:
Controlled airport. I'm 10nm out to the east-northeast. Approach tells me "fly direct to the airport" (doesn't say at pilot's discretion) cleared for the straight-in visual for 18, contact tower on .9. Well, I'm about 3nm north and 7nm east. I call tower and say "N321AB on the straight in approach, 18." While I realized I wasn't, that's what the approach controller gave me, and I just kind of went with it. Then, tower got a bit snippy first saying "who's on the straight in?!" Then when I replied with my call sign he replied by telling me that I wasn't on the straight in, I was on left base (in a snippy manner, but that's not pertinent to the story). Anyway, what should I have done differently? Told approach that the direct to and straight in weren't feasible; given a different call to tower; or just done the same thing?
Click to expand...

You were IFR during this? Also, approach issued a ground freq to switch to while airborne?
 
Threads like this make me appreciate the good folk in KDTO's tower. As one of the busiest single runway airports (in # of operations), we need good teamwork.

Only one of the controller's (Miss B for the local folk) gives unclear instructions and then gets snippy when you ask for clarification or do what she says and not what she intends.

The guys are really cool and any "Make straight in's" are accompanied with a reporting instruction so you can be sequenced. And then they are on the ball ready with your clearance.
 
Velocity173 said:
You were IFR during this? Also, approach issued a ground freq to switch to while airborne?
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The .9 was a filler because I didn't feel like going back to look up the freq. And VFR.
 
ebykowsky said:
The .9 was a filler because I didn't feel like going back to look up the freq. And VFR.
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Ok, it just sounded like a ground freq issuance which would be a no go in flight. The phraseology to clear you for a visual to runway 18 is an IFR clearance for a VA. Should've given you specific instructions such as "make / proceed straight in runway 18."
 
One of the things I've never quite understood is what happens behind the scenes between Approach and Tower when doing a handoff to land. There seems to be 2 distinct setups. At the primary airport for Approach (e.g. RDU Approach for RDU landing) the handoff is just like any other, Tower generally knows where I am and what instructions I've been given. At other airports, Approach's hand-off often seems blind. That is, the tower doesn't seem to know that I'm there. They generally require location, altitude and intentions from me as if I just popped up at the 5 mile mark.

Can anyone shed some light on that works at different places?

I'm usually IFR but sometimes VFR. In these handoffs I'm most often IFR being cleared for the visual so that muddles my understanding a bit relative to VFR. When I'm flying an instrument approach the handoffs are straightforward as they should be.

I'm aware that some Towers have access to radar and some don't. That may play a part in how I'm handled but I'm not sure how.
 
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Velocity173 said:
Ok, it just sounded like a ground freq issuance which would be a no go in flight. The phraseology to clear you for a visual to runway 18 is an IFR clearance for a VA. Should've given you specific instructions such as "make / proceed straight in runway 18."
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I want to say he said "visual", but he very well may not have. Most of the other traffic was cleared for the visual, so I may have just been extrapolating to myself. I do know for a fact that he cleared me for the "straight in approach".

Note: this is another question from my trip to CLT last week, so most of the traffic were jets being cleared for the visual on a long straight in. Obviously, I couldn't have flown anything but the visual.
 
Bill Watson said:
One of the things I've never quite understood is what happens behind the scenes between Approach and Tower when doing a handoff to land. There seems to be 2 distinct setups. At the primary airport for Approach (e.g. RDU Approach for RDU landing) the handoff is just like any other, Tower generally knows where I am and what instructions I've been given. At other airports, Approach's hand-off often seems blind. That is, the tower doesn't seem to know that I'm there. They generally require location, altitude and intentions from me as if I just popped up at the 5 mile mark.

Can anyone shed some light on that works at different places?

I'm usually IFR but sometimes VFR. In these handoffs I'm most often IFR being cleared for the visual so that muddles my understanding a bit relative to VFR. When I'm flying an instrument approach the handoffs are straightforward as they should be.

I'm aware that some Towers have access to radar and some don't. That may play a part in how I'm handled but I'm not sure how.
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Pretty much what your last paragraph said. A lot of Class Ds don't have a radar feed (BRITE, BRANDS, etc). They have your inbound coordination from approach but not a radar ID. Therefore a position report is needed.

At your Class Cs they not only have a radar feed but a lot of times the approach controller is standing next to the local controller. That makes for an efficient coordination compared to someone working approach in an entirely separate building or room.
 
ebykowsky said:
I want to say he said "visual",
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Were you operating IFR? The term "visual approach" only applies to IFR operations.

I do know for a fact that he cleared me for the "straight in approach".
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I've found that nonradar tower controllers often have a different picture of where I am in relation to the runway than I do. The 45-degree increments of the cardinal directions we normally use can be a bit coarse for this purpose. If tower says "straight in" when a left base appears more suitable, it's perfectly OK to tell the controller that, and obtain a revised instruction, e.g., "Salisbury Tower, 22RL, direct to the airport from here will put me on left base for runway 18".
 
ebykowsky said:
I want to say he said "visual", but he very well may not have. Most of the other traffic was cleared for the visual, so I may have just been extrapolating to myself. I do know for a fact that he cleared me for the "straight in approach".

Note: this is another question from my trip to CLT last week, so most of the traffic were jets being cleared for the visual on a long straight in. Obviously, I couldn't have flown anything but the visual.
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That's odd, I don't think I've ever been "cleared" for anything while talking to approach (VFR). They usually tell me the location of the airport (11 o'clock, 5 miles) and hand me over to tower.
 
I went on LiveATC history and couldn't get the approach chatter, only tower; and that's not all that helpful.
 
ebykowsky said:
Note: this is another question from my trip to CLT last week, so most of the traffic were jets being cleared for the visual on a long straight in. Obviously, I couldn't have flown anything but the visual.
Click to expand...
The jet traffic was all IFR traffic where they require some kind of approach clearance - a visual approach being used in this case.

You were VFR and I think the procedure is that Approach gives various instructions for sequencing and stuff but in the end you are only cleared to land by the tower. The jets can be cleared for an arrival and an approach by Approach Control, then cleared to land by the tower.
 
Ron Levy said:
I have, but only in B-space.
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You're right, I forgot about that.

On my VFR flight from FRG to ACY, I was "cleared" into the Bravo direct JFK then given a vector to the Colts Neck VOR.

Guess if I were landing at a B airport, I'd expect to be cleared for a certain approach.
 
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Wait a minute, scratch my last sentance. I'm studying some IFR material right now and I think my brain drifted for a moment. I'm confusing myself:confused:
 
oldShar said:
Just say, "N321AB, 7.5 mi NE, inbound"
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That's all I would do too. There are an awful lot of times where the approach and tower controllers will have different ideas on what they want you to do. It is just easier to tell tower you are inbound and let them figure out where they want you to enter the traffic pattern.
 
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