Stalls~ Break, or No Break?

[T Bone]

When I did my primary training (way back in '04-'05 ) My instructor taught stalls in a variety of ways. We did them to the point where a wing (or the nose, if properly coordinated) would drop sharply at the break. When I was a bit more squeamish of this early on (being certain I would die if the airplane pointed remotely at the ground, even though I knew the CFI was NOT suicidal and had done this before....) he taught a "leaf", or "falling leaf" stall, which we alternately recovered from and/or rode for a good distance down (from a suitable altitude agl of course). Note to CFI's, this is a WONDERFUL tool for teaching nervous students about stalls... but then, you knew that, didn't you? .

Since obtaining my license, I've come in contact with various pilots/instructors who raise eybrows at carrying a stall to the break in training (seems there's a lot of "Our way is better" opinions among schools/FBO's, etc). One thing I've noted on this site, there seems to be a wave of clear thinking, knowledgeable folks who speak freely of their (well thought out) opinions, which tend to be pretty rational. Very refreshing.

So, the question: For students and certificated pilots, how were you trained? For CFI's, how do you teach them, and your thoughts?

 

[BillG]

I was trained by doing full stalls - recover after the break. I also did some real spins in a 150. On my own, now, I'll practice full stalls occasionally. The Skyhawk I just sold was a very benign stall - nothing violent about it. The Tiger I just bought also seems pretty benign (haven't flown it much though due to the engine - but that's a different topic.)

 

[gismo]

So, the question: For students and certificated pilots, how were you trained? For CFI's, how do you teach them, and your thoughts?

I think that the Commercial PTS speaks about taking stall demo's up to the edge and recovering before a stall actually occurs while the Private PTS requires a full break, so I'd say the answer should depend on what rating you are training for.

That said, the PPL training certainly ought to include both.

 

[MSmith]

I was taught both ways - to the break and almost to the break. Mostly to the break.

Teaching me to recognize the signs of a stall (and at one point we did them in a plane with a non-functioning stall horn) was very valuable. I knew when to expect things to happen and how to back away from an incipient stall.

After that, we did all full-break stalls. That put the reflexes into muscle memory to recover without thinking.

Interestingly, in the Warrior we had trouble getting a departure stall to break with a nose drop sometimes. It would just hang and hang and hang in the air....

 

[BruceAir]

The Private Pilot PTS describes the stall tasks thus:

B. TASK: POWER-OFF STALLS (ASEL and ASES)
REFERENCES: FAA-H-8083-3, AC 61-67; POH/AFM.

Objective. To determine that the applicant:

1. Exhibits knowledge of the elements related to power-off stalls.

2. Selects an entry altitude that allows the task to be completed no
lower than 1,500 feet (460 meters) AGL.

3. Establishes a stabilized descent in the approach or landing
configuration, as specified by the examiner.

4. Transitions smoothly from the approach or landing attitude to a pitch
attitude that will induce a stall.

5. Maintains a specified heading, ±10°, in straight flight; maintains a
specified angle of bank not to exceed 20°, ±10°; in turning flight,
while inducing the stall.

6. Recognizes and recovers promptly after the stall occurs by
simultaneously reducing the angle of attack, increasing power to
maximum allowable, and leveling the wings to return to a straightand-
level flight attitude with a minimum loss of altitude appropriate
for the airplane.

7. Retracts the flaps to the recommended setting; retracts the landing
gear, if retractable, after a positive rate of climb is established.

8. Accelerates to VX or VY speed before the final flap retraction; returns
to the altitude, heading, and airspeed specified by the examiner.

C. TASK: POWER-ON STALLS (ASEL and ASES)
NOTE: In some high performance airplanes, the power setting may have to
be reduced below the practical test standards guideline power setting to
prevent excessively high pitch attitudes (greater than 30° nose up).

REFERENCES: FAA-H-8083-3, AC 61-67; POH/AFM.

Objective. To determine that the applicant:

1. Exhibits knowledge of the elements related to power-on stalls.

2. Selects an entry altitude that allows the task to be completed no
lower than 1,500 feet (460 meters) AGL.

3. Establishes the takeoff or departure configuration. Sets power to no
less than 65 percent available power.

4. Transitions smoothly from the takeoff or departure attitude to the
pitch attitude that will induce a stall.

5. Maintains a specified heading, ±10°, in straight flight; maintains a
specified angle of bank not to exceed 20°, ±10°, in turning flight,
while inducing the stall.

6. Recognizes and recovers promptly after the stall occurs by
simultaneously reducing the angle of attack, increasing power as
appropriate, and leveling the wings to return to a straight-and-level
flight attitude with a minimum loss of altitude appropriate for the
airplane.

7. Retracts the flaps to the recommended setting; retracts the landing
gear if retractable, after a positive rate of climb is established.

8. Accelerates to VX or VY speed before the final flap retraction; returns
to the altitude, heading, and airspeed specified by the examiner.

The Commercial Pilot PTS describes the same tasks thus:

B. TASK: POWER-OFF STALLS (ASEL and ASES)
REFERENCES: FAA-H-8083-3, AC 61-67; POH/AFM.

Objective. To determine that the applicant:

1. Exhibits knowledge of the elements related to power-off stalls.

2. Selects an entry altitude that allows the task to be completed no
lower than 1,500 feet (460 meters) AGL.

3. Establishes a stabilized descent in the approach or landing
configuration, as specified by the examiner.

4. Transitions smoothly from the approach or landing attitude to a
pitch attitude that will induce a stall.

5. Maintains a specified heading, ±10° in straight flight; maintains a
specified angle of bank, not to exceed 20°, ±5°, in turning flight
while inducing the stall.

6. Recognizes and recovers promptly as the stall occurs by
simultaneously reducing the angle of attack, increasing power to
maximum allowable, and leveling the wings to return to a straightand-
level flight attitude with a minimum loss of altitude
appropriate for the airplane.

7. Retracts the flaps to the recommended setting, retracts the
landing gear if retractable after a positive rate of climb is
established.

8. Accelerates to VX or VY speed before the final flap retraction;
returns to the altitude, heading, and airspeed specified by the
examiner.

C. TASK: POWER-ON STALLS (ASEL and ASES)
REFERENCES: FAA-H-8083-3, AC 61-67; POH/AFM.

NOTE: In some high performance airplanes, the power setting may
have to be reduced below the practical test standards guideline power
setting to prevent excessively high pitch attitudes (greater than 30° nose
up).

Objective. To determine that the applicant:

1. Exhibits knowledge of the elements related to power-on stalls.

2. Selects an entry altitude that allows the task to be completed no
lower than 1,500 feet (460 meters) AGL.

3. Establishes the takeoff or departure configuration. Sets power to
no less than 65 percent available power.

4. Transitions smoothly from the takeoff or departure attitude to a
pitch attitude that will induce a stall.

5. Maintains a specified heading ±5°, in straight flight; maintains a
specified angle of bank, not to exceed a 20°, ±10°, in turning
flight, while inducing the stall.

6. Recognizes and recovers promptly as the stall occurs by
simultaneously reducing the angle of attack, increasing power to
maximum allowable, and leveling the wings to return to a straightand-
level flight attitude, with a minimum loss of altitude
appropriate for the airplane.

7. Retracts flaps to the recommended setting, retracts the landing
gear if retractable, after a positive rate of climb is established.

8. Accelerates to VX or VY speed before the final flap retraction;
returns to the altitude, heading, and airspeed specified by the
examiner.

======================

I commented on stall training in another post. If you're interested, see:

http://www.pilotsofamerica.com/showthread.php?p=3720#post3720

 

[Silicon Rallye]

Since the stall is a loss of lift due to the maximum (or critical) AOA being exceeded, the first sign of this loss should effect recovery.

Continuing to increase AOA to the break is good for demonstration purposes, I suppose, but recognizing this loss of lift (seeing the nose dip) is what I would want a student to recognize.

 

[Dave Krall CFII]

Since the stall is a loss of lift due to the maximum (or critical) AOA being exceeded, the first sign of this loss should effect recovery.

Continuing to increase AOA to the break is good for demonstration purposes, I suppose, but recognizing this loss of lift (seeing the nose dip) is what I would want a student to recognize.

DEMONSTRATION ?!? It's good for survival too ! And multiple PTSs call for it... repeatedly.

About 30% of all GA flight accidents & deaths are listed as stall/spin. (erroneous, I'd say it's because of pilot's inability to RECOVER from the stall/spin !) Add to that the large fraction of non-recovered stall/spins from uncontrolled flight into IFR, itself a larger category adding about another 30% to deaths/accidents in GA.

The reality is even if you can recognize the iminent stall and avoid it further, in real life, sooner or later you'll get into a full stall or some other nasty thing and it is far better in the back of our brains to know that yes, we've been here before and we know how and can do what's needed NOW to get out of it safely.

Why on earth (or above it) wouldn't we train in full stall recoveries except to placate students & CFIs with weak stomachs or other ill-founded excuses ?

 

[Silicon Rallye]

DEMONSTRATION ?!? It's good for survival too ! And multiple PTSs call for it... repeatedly.

They do call for stall recovery but I suspect that it's what my CFI mentor taught me for imminent stall, stall, and stall break. If a student wants to do a stall breaks, I don't have a problem but, in doing so, you've gone past what is the definition of a stall.

 

[Dave Krall CFII]

What is the definition of stall break ?

They do call for stall recovery but I suspect that it's what my CFI mentor taught me for imminent stall, stall, and stall break. If a student wants to do a stall breaks, I don't have a problem but, in doing so, you've gone past what is the definition of a stall.

 

[AdamZ]

in real life, sooner or later you'll get into a full stall or some other nasty thing and it is far better in the back of our brains to know that yes, we've been here before and we know how and can do what's needed NOW to get out of it safely.

Why on earth (or above it) wouldn't we train in full stall recoveries except to placate students & CFIs with weak stomachs or other ill-founded excuses ?

Dave: first I agree " always prepare for the worst" but why do you insist that in real life sooner or later you'll get in to a full stall. I trained breaking the stall at the buffet and recovering just after the stall. I have not done spin training but plan on doing so, once again, to prepare for the worst. I don't think however that it is inevitable that all pilots will inevitably experience an unintentional full stall during their flying careers.
Its important to teach both so that A) you can recover from a stall if you enter one and B) just as important you learn to recognize an imminent stall and prevent the full stall. If you learn to recognize the imminent stall ... well as Franklin said "an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure"

 

[gismo]

Dave: first I agree " always prepare for the worst" but why do you insist that in real life sooner or later you'll get in to a full stall. I trained breaking the stall at the buffet and recovering just after the stall. I have not done spin training but plan on doing so, once again, to prepare for the worst. I don't think however that it is inevitable that all pilots will inevitably experience an unintentional full stall during their flying careers.
Its important to teach both so that A) you can recover from a stall if you enter one and B) just as important you learn to recognize an imminent stall and prevent the full stall. If you learn to recognize the imminent stall ... well as Franklin said "an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure"

AFaIK in 25+ years of flying the only inadvertent stalls were during aerobatic flight (at least if you except the stall I did on my third landing attempt early in my PPL training). That said, I do think the proper reaction to a full stall is something every pilot should commit to "muscle memory".

 

[Dave Krall CFII]

Dave: first I agree " always prepare for the worst" but why do you insist that in real life sooner or later you'll get in to a full stall. I trained breaking the stall at the buffet and recovering just after the stall. I have not done spin training but plan on doing so, once again, to prepare for the worst. I don't think however that it is inevitable that all pilots will inevitably experience an unintentional full stall during their flying careers.
Its important to teach both so that A) you can recover from a stall if you enter one and B) just as important you learn to recognize an imminent stall and prevent the full stall. If you learn to recognize the imminent stall ... well as Franklin said "an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure"

Adam,

We're essentially in agreement to "prepare for the worst" wether it's weather, stall & recovery or worse. I feel, and stats support me, that if you or anybody flys enough you'll need the "pound of cure" for something that Franklin's ounce of prevention did not prevent...

A very students & CFIs few may be killed, or worse, in practicing flight training to deal with these maladies of flight but, that doesn't make it a bad thing. Uncomfortable and/or challenging, maybe.

 

[poadeleted3]

I had a number of instructors, but one experienced one really taught me to fly, and the other experienced one finished my PPL training after we moved. They both had me train both ways. Some of them we would let break, some we would recover before the break. I still practice both.

 

[poadeleted3]

I was trained by doing full stalls - recover after the break. I also did some real spins in a 150. On my own, now, I'll practice full stalls occasionally. The Skyhawk I just sold was a very benign stall - nothing violent about it. The Tiger I just bought also seems pretty benign (haven't flown it much though due to the engine - but that's a different topic.)

I think the Tiger is much more benign than the Skyhawk. I have to work to keep a wing from dropping in the Skyhawk. In the Tiger, it didn't even try.

 

[mikea]

I was lucky enough to hook with an old-timer CFI at Wings Weekend a few years back. When I mentioned I was most shaky about the base to final stall risk, we went to work on it.

When I replay flights I remember times when the turn to final seemed bumpy for some reason, when it was smooth until then. What a strange time to hit turbulence.

He asked, which wing would drop first?

We went flying. I discovered which wing drops. And, can you say the color you see out front is GREEN? My plane didn't spin, but it dropped. I was current and confident enough to really enjoy it. I will never forget at one point realizing that I was confidently flying on the fuselage, ala Sean D. Tucker, using the rudder as the elevator. (Has the statue of limitations run out on this...?)

BUT, I know the issue is getting slow and cross controlled on an overshoot of final and I did not and do not do that. I'm never shy about going around and trying again when the runway ends up too far on the inside of the turn.

Now that I'm not so current, I have to relearn this stuff. When I flew dual recently I had to re-remember how to do the full power stall in lightly loaded 235 without ending up emulating a helicopter* I was also shy about pulling the yoke all of the way back.

* Start out at a LOW airspeed - bottom of the white arc. Apply full power and PULL SIMULTANEOUSLY. Any lag, or higher initial airspeed and you end up on your back.

 

[Jeff Oslick]

I always trained to the full stall break, and I have no hesitation at practicing them solo. Some planes are very difficult if not impossible to get a clear, recognizable break (never could get the Cherokee 160 to do it at forward CG). If a student or especially a CFI has problems learning/teaching to the full break, I'd recommend they go up for some (more) spin training in an appropriate aircraft.Jeff

 

[Ed Guthrie]

The Private Pilot PTS describes the stall tasks thus:

after the stall occurs

The Commercial Pilot PTS describes the same tasks thus:


as the stall occurs http://www.pilotsofamerica.com/showthread.php?p=3720#post3720

Add to the above two references that the ATP PTS describes these tasks as:

B. TASK: APPROACHES TO STALLS

Announces the first indication of an impending stall (such as buffeting, stick shaker, decay of control effectiveness, and any other cues related to the specific airplane design characteristics) and initiates recovery or as directed by the examiner (using maximum power or as directed by the examiner).


The answer to the question asked really does depend on the certificate.

 

[Dave Krall CFII]

Dave: first I agree " always prepare for the worst" but why do you insist that in real life sooner or later you'll get in to a full stall. I trained breaking the stall at the buffet and recovering just after the stall. I have not done spin training but plan on doing so, once again, to prepare for the worst. I don't think however that it is inevitable that all pilots will inevitably experience an unintentional full stall during their flying careers.
Its important to teach both so that A) you can recover from a stall if you enter one and B) just as important you learn to recognize an imminent stall and prevent the full stall. If you learn to recognize the imminent stall ... well as Franklin said "an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure"

I think most pilots will get into EITHER the stall problems or some other nasty stuff like MVFR of various kinds. Unrecovered stall/spins is just perhaps the biggest category, but definately very big.

 

[SkyHog]

In my training, we only did full break stall recoveries. I can identify that a stall is imminent, and I'm pretty sure I can correct before hand. I assume it's the same thing as a stall recovery, except the plane hasn't stalled yet.

 

[jdwatson]

Stalls scare the **** out of me. I avoid getting close to a stall at all costs. Hence, stall training makes me sweat like no other part of any certificate. Currently, I'm headed towards the commercial.

 

[poadeleted20]

In considering this issue, keep this in mind: "Just before the stall occurs, buffeting, uncontrollable pitching, or vibrations may begin." [emphasis added] (Airplane Flying Handbook, page 4-4) This suggests that the onset of the buffet occurs before the actual stall, which doesn't occur until the "break."

Also, in considering the wording in the three levels of PTS, keep in mind that GENERALLY, the Private is flown in an aircraft of fairly docile stall characteristics, making full stalls relatively low risk. The ATP standards are often used in swept-wing jet aircraft which act very badly in a full stall. The Commercial flight test is usually flown in something in between. So if I'm teaching in a C-150, full stall to the break is the order of the day. But if I'm in a Piper Cheyenne, I ain't gonna do that, even if it's for a an additional AMEL rating on a PP ticket.

 

[bbchien]

Stalls scare the **** out of me. I avoid getting close to a stall at all costs. Hence, stall training makes me sweat like no other part of any certificate. Currently, I'm headed towards the commercial.

JD, go get four hours of Acro in something certified to spin. Spin that fear out of you. Slay the dragon. You will make much faster progress on all subsequent levels of training once that dragon is dead and you don't have to watch the door quite so closely..... It'll be the most fun you ever had.

 

[fgcason]

Since obtaining my license, I've come in contact with various pilots/instructors who raise eybrows at carrying a stall to the break in training (seems there's a lot of "Our way is better" opinions among schools/FBO's, etc).

I've run across a few instructors that say "stall" and mean "to the 1st chirp of the horn or controls getting mushy." I had one instructor on a FBO checkout that got downright upset with me when I took it to the break. If you don't want a full stall, don't tell the pilot to stall the plane.

So, the question: For students and certificated pilots, how were you trained?

I learned stalls all the way to the break until completely comfortable with them and to fly without reference to the ASI while doing and avoiding stalls. Power on, off, glide, level, accelerated, falling leaf, imminent, extreme slow flight, etc.

IMHO: If it comes to it, imminent is better than full stalls in the pattern. But if you don't train into the full stall up there where it's safe to do so, you're not going to know what the other side feels like or how to react properly to avoid going there or to get back from them right-now. Know stalls by feel.

Stalls-R-Fun!!!!! Many Aviation Monetary Units have been traded for them just because...

 

[jdwatson]

Doc C,
I'll do that. Right now, I'm time short and my gravy train is about to run dry. I gotta get the commercial done so there's hope that I can fly on someone else;s dime cuz mine is thin. If layoffs come back to the tech-sector I'll need to find a way to feed my need. I completely agree, tho. I need to slay that dragon.

 

[pete177]

I think the Tiger is much more benign than the Skyhawk. I have to work to keep a wing from dropping in the Skyhawk. In the Tiger, it didn't even try.

Could just be rigging

 

[poadeleted3]

Could just be rigging

Been true of every Skyhawk I've flown, which is only 5 or six different ones to be honest.

 

[Henning]

When I did my primary training (way back in '04-'05 ) My instructor taught stalls in a variety of ways. We did them to the point where a wing (or the nose, if properly coordinated) would drop sharply at the break. When I was a bit more squeamish of this early on (being certain I would die if the airplane pointed remotely at the ground, even though I knew the CFI was NOT suicidal and had done this before....) he taught a "leaf", or "falling leaf" stall, which we alternately recovered from and/or rode for a good distance down (from a suitable altitude agl of course). Note to CFI's, this is a WONDERFUL tool for teaching nervous students about stalls... but then, you knew that, didn't you? .

Since obtaining my license, I've come in contact with various pilots/instructors who raise eybrows at carrying a stall to the break in training (seems there's a lot of "Our way is better" opinions among schools/FBO's, etc). One thing I've noted on this site, there seems to be a wave of clear thinking, knowledgeable folks who speak freely of their (well thought out) opinions, which tend to be pretty rational. Very refreshing.

So, the question: For students and certificated pilots, how were you trained? For CFI's, how do you teach them, and your thoughts?

Typically, the severity of the stall practiced varies at an inverse of the experience of the pilot. When you are first learning to fly you are taught full stalls and checkride full stalls to show you can handle them should one happen. When you train for your commercial and higher ratings, you train to "incipent stall to show you can recognize the edge of the envelope and bring it back without scaring the passengers or spilling their drinks. In reality, you need to be competent and comfortable with both techniques.

 

[Ed Guthrie]

I've run across a few instructors that say "stall" and mean "to the 1st chirp of the horn or controls getting mushy." I had one instructor on a FBO checkout that got downright upset with me when I took it to the break. If you don't want a full stall, don't tell the pilot to stall the plane.

Right. The request should match the desired outcome. Don't ask me for a stall if you don't want to see the whole show. I had one CFI get irate at me when he said "show me a power off stall" and I took it right through the break. He started harping at me that I should recover at the first sign, such as horn or buffet. I looked over and said, "Oh, what you wanted was a little buffet, why didn't you say so?", and then began singing "Cheese Burger in Paradise". Needless to say, the CFI didn't make the cut.

Unfortunately, DEs don't subscribe to this philosophy. For any particular certificate checkride it is best to know what the DE expects when s/he says, "Okay, show me a power off stall.", and then recover after, during, or at the first indication of a stall, as appropriate.

 

[grattonja]

I trained full break stalls, as well as imminent stalls, and stall recognition. I practiced full break stalls only with a CFI on board until some time after I got my PPL, then I realized that I needed to be able to handle these alone, should something stupid happen. So I went up and did the "falling leaf" in the trusty skyhawk, and realized that: A. My training had been decent and B. I could do this. No problem.

I think you need to train the full panoply of stall levels, from imminent to hard break. In any plane you fly. It will cure you of any fear of the event, should one inadvertently take place.

I need to spin a plane now. That was a no-no in the training planes, so I have not done it yet. Some Acro is no doubt in my future, per Doc's orders above.

Jim G

 

[fgcason]

Right. The request should match the desired outcome. Don't ask me for a stall if you don't want to see the whole show. I had one CFI get irate at me when he said "show me a power off stall" and I took it right through the break. He started harping at me that I should recover at the first sign, such as horn or buffet. I looked over and said, "Oh, what you wanted was a little buffet, why didn't you say so?", and then began singing "Cheese Burger in Paradise". Needless to say, the CFI didn't make the cut.

I think the thing that disturbs me the most about such incidents (at least in my experience) is not that they ragged on me, a fully rated PP that's BTDT, but that their reaction gives you the very distinct feeling that when they're teaching primary students, they won't let a stall go to the break with them. IMHO if that's really the case, one is not doing one's job as a CFI and the student is being shortchanged in a potentially dangerous situation. IME, these are isolated incidents but they do exist and that's just wrong.

Unfortunately, DEs don't subscribe to this philosophy. For any particular certificate checkride it is best to know what the DE expects when s/he says, "Okay, show me a power off stall.", and then recover after, during, or at the first indication of a stall, as appropriate.

I only know one DE and use to know another when I was a kid but when they said "I want you to do C" you do "C", not Y or L or H or whatever.

 

[Jeff Oslick]

...be the most fun you ever had.

I wish I could say doing aerobatic training was fun for me, but it really wasn't. Don't get me wrong, I'm absolutely am glad I did it, and will go back for some refresher training soon, but I still doubt that I'll think it's "fun". I do appreciate the confidence it gave me in the rest of flying, and I certainly learned a lot. I had a great instructor, and I've had a few other aerobatic flights with my sister (who now teaches aerobatics too), but for some reason I just don't find most of it particularly enjoyable - ok, I think aileron rolls are kinda fun, but that's about it.

Jeff

 

[gismo]

JD, go get four hours of Acro in something certified to spin. Spin that fear out of you. Slay the dragon. You will make much faster progress on all subsequent levels of training once that dragon is dead and you don't have to watch the door quite so closely..... It'll be the most fun you ever had.

I agree wholeheartedly. You need to overcome this fear to be a good capable pilot, especially if you want to go the commercial (CFI?) route. Even if you don't go for the spin training right away, you should take a CFI along and stall the plane repeatedly until you are as comfortable with that as any other aspect of flight. The falling leaf excersize is really good for this.

One thing you should get fixed in your head is that an airplane will not spin if you keep it pointed in the same direction during any stall. In most airplanes all you have to do is watch your heading (easy if you look ahead) and correct with the rudder. I really don't think there's any real risk of a spin when you deliberately stall an airplane (at least as long as you pay attention to the airplane's heading), the advantage of spin training is that it gives you the ability to recover if and when you inadvertently stall which almost inevitably means you weren't paying attention and are thus much more likely to spin.

A fear of stalls is quite natural for most pilots, but IMO must be overcome to be a competent pilot.

 

[Gary Sortor]

About 30% of all GA flight accidents & deaths are listed as stall/spin. Add to that the large fraction of non-recovered stall/spins from uncontrolled flight into IFR, itself a larger category adding about another 30% to deaths/accidents in GA.

The underlying cause of many of these stall/spin accidents (especially fatalities) is spatial disorientation, including inadvertent IFR and even accidents with pilots on an IFR flight plan. Will stall training really help in these cases? Are we overlooking the development of good judgment/risk management in our training to reduce fatalities? Stall training has its place, I agree, but it is not a cure all.

 

[jdwatson]

Y'all have convinced me. I commit to the board that I will get specific stall training and be competent & comfortable with stalls before I take my Commercial checkride. <hand on heart>

 

[Anthony]

Could just be rigging

Exactly. I find stalls in both a C-172 and Tiger very benign. Now if Joe was talking C-150/152, I found all of them wanted to drop a wing in a stall which is actually a good lesson in learning to use opposite rudder only in the recovery.