Stall Warning Horn on Base And Final

[txflyer]

But Capt Skulley doesn't have the training or skill of Henning.

I don't know about that, I just know that dropping from as little as 10' vertically onto the ground can cause death.

 

[danhagan]

I would ask him why he does the approach at 45. That just seems weird to me. If he can't give you a good answer for it, I wouldn't fly with the guy.

1. I hope I'm not behind this guy in the pattern.
2. I hope his base to final is power off and not a 747 pattern.

 

[Henning]

Slow is good, but I'll add my lower time opinion that you never want to stall in an engine out. It's more important to maintain control and land as level as possible under control. Don't ever plan to stall it when you're gliding.

In engine out accidents even in trees, the planes that maintained a good level glide into them fared better than those who stalled and dropped in. Sorry, I can't link the source, just what I've read and I believe it.

Think Captain Skulley gliding the jet into the river. He never stalled the craft. He maintained a certain degree of glide all the way to the water.

If you fly the plane like you know how, you will not stall the plane. Tree tops absorb impact nicely, I have pulled several planes from trees for insurance companies and all of them the people walked (climbed) away from. Tree trunks when running into the end of a field is another matter, boughs bend, trunks stay solid.

I am no where advocating stalling the plane, I am advocating having a mastery of the plane so you can confidently fly it as slow as it will fly, and have the experience to be able to judge the approach. There is no safer way to practice this than in the bloody traffic pattern unless you can get on a Class D sim or something. There is no great risk unless you are flying an exotic speed demon or piece of flying antiquity. The planes most people learn in do not fall out of the sky out of control at the first buffet of stall, they just increase their sink rate, IMO a much safer, better for accuracy, way of increasing sink rate than slipping which makes your adjusted glide perspective harder to judge, or pointing the nose down and picking up energy you will have to lose again. I read somewhere that more engine out approaches go wrong long than short. If you have a working engine and are in a pattern that allows a direct engine out path to the runway; you are at no great risk. Get a sink burble in the air? Give it a burst of a few hundred RPM to add some energy back. Feel some buffet in the yoke? Give it a couple milliners of yoke back to reduce your AoA out of buffet. If you have the plane trimmed properly, you will feel it in your fingertip and thumb before anything ever happens.

BTW, Skully was in a Fly by Wire Airbus wasn't he? If so, that system is amazing, all he would have had to do is hold the stick all the way back centered and the plane would manage the sink and speed as well as keep the wings level. If it's similar to the system the AB 340 from AF 447 used, it's an incredible control system.

 

[txflyer]

If you fly the plane like you know how, you will not stall the plane. Tree tops absorb impact nicely, I have pulled several planes from trees for insurance companies and all of them the people walked (climbed) away from. Tree trunks when running into the end of a field is another matter, boughs bend, trunks stay solid.

I am no where advocating stalling the plane, I am advocating having a mastery of the plane so you can confidently fly it as slow as it will fly, and have the experience to be able to judge the approach. There is no safer way to practice this than in the bloody traffic pattern unless you can get on a Class D sim or something. There is no great risk unless you are flying an exotic speed demon or piece of flying antiquity. The planes most people learn in do not fall out of the sky out of control at the first buffet of stall, they just increase their sink rate, IMO a much safer, better for accuracy, way of increasing sink rate than slipping which makes your adjusted glide perspective harder to judge, or pointing the nose down and picking up energy you will have to lose again. I read somewhere that more engine out approaches go wrong long than short. If you have a working engine and are in a pattern that allows a direct engine out path to the runway; you are at no great risk. Get a sink burble in the air? Give it a burst of a few hundred RPM to add some energy back. Feel some buffet in the yoke? Give it a couple milliners of yoke back to reduce your AoA out of buffet. If you have the plane trimmed properly, you will feel it in your fingertip and thumb before anything ever happens.

BTW, Skully was in a Fly by Wire Airbus wasn't he? If so, that system is amazing, all he would have had to do is hold the stick all the way back centered and the plane would manage the sink and speed as well as keep the wings level. If it's similar to the system the AB 340 from AF 447 used, it's an incredible control system.

We're saying the same thing and agreeing on the same thing in different words practically.

Practice makes perfect was pretty much what my initial point was. I like to do lazy eights and stalls and other things to get a feel for mine, but at a safe altitude. I haven't spun it even one complete revolution, but I'll make it drop a wing and recover. Things like that.

If an Airbus works like you say, then Capt. Skulley had some of the work load off of him. He still had to point and click I guess you could say ..

 

[Brad Z]

Who's Capt. Skulley?

 

[Henning]

Who's Capt. Skulley?

That's Autocorrect's name for Sully...

 

[txflyer]

Cripes. Freakin' auto spell...

 

[MAKG1]

But Capt Skulley doesn't have the training or skill of Henning.

Umm, that's "Sulley," short for Sullenberger.

Scully is the impossibly pretty detective from X-files.

I doubt she could glide an airliner to a safe landing in a river. Most of us couldn't

 

[timwinters]

Below VSO?

I frequently slow flight my 182 with the ASI pegged at zero. I'm way behind the power curve though. I usually do it in the winter when my oil needs a lot of help to make it to 180dF.

Fun stuff.

 

[pilot_dude]

Umm, that's "Sulley," short for Sullenberger.

Scully is the impossibly pretty detective from X-files.

I doubt she could glide an airliner to a safe landing in a river. Most of us couldn't

Thanks for the correction

 

[ChrisK]

I frequently slow flight my 182 with the ASI pegged at zero. I'm way behind the power curve though. I usually do it in the winter when my oil needs a lot of help to make it to 180dF.

Fun stuff.

I've heard of hanging them on their props like that. Today I was struggling to keep my cht cool

 

[Jaybird180]

We're saying the same thing and agreeing on the same thing in different words practically.

Practice makes perfect was pretty much what my initial point was. I like to do lazy eights and stalls and other things to get a feel for mine, but at a safe altitude. I haven't spun it even one complete revolution, but I'll make it drop a wing and recover. Things like that.

If an Airbus works like you say, then Capt. Skulley had some of the work load off of him. He still had to point and click I guess you could say ..

They put other pro pilots in the sim with the same scenario as Sully and they didn't do so well. So the system didn't do as much as Henning suggested.

 

[denverpilot]

Maybe I misunderstood your question, or do you really think that it is safe to use the entire runway to takeoff? That would be difficult at some of the controlled fields that I visit, where runways are up to 11,000 feet [KGSP].

I was under the impression you were saying you start the takeoff roll at midfield or not at the threshold on purpose, as a regular course of action. I think I misunderstood your post regarding how much runway you use.

Your example of the 11,000' runway, if you start at the beginning you could have an engine failure and still land on the remaining runway up to a pretty significant altitude.

That's all I was saying.