Squawking 7600 as a convenience

narchee

narchee

Line Up and Wait
Joined
Sep 8, 2014
Messages
722
Display Name
Display name:
Long Blinker
Okay, here's another one from my ATP drinking buddy Bob (not his real name). He told me a little bit about how the track system over the North Atlantic works and how things have got a lot easier compared to previous times. They don't need to use HF anymore and can even communicate with ATC via something like text messaging. And they don't really need to give position reports anymore either because ATC can see exactly where they are not through radar but through I guess the equivalent of ADS-B.

Pretty interesting.

He did say that it gets quite constricted and sometimes you can get an inconvenient routing maybe getting beaten up by turbulence, etc, for whatever reason you don't like what you have and ATC can't help you out. His solution? Squawk 7600 and descend to FL280. You're now off the "track system" as he called it and you can do whatever you like... :eek:

Nice to know this could be happening when you're back in 32B! :lol:

Again, I don't know if this is real or just a drinking story.

Comments?
 
narchee said:
Okay, here's another one from my ATP drinking buddy Bob (not his real name). He told me a little bit about how the track system over the North Atlantic works and how things have got a lot easier compared to previous times. They don't need to use HF anymore and can even communicate with ATC via something like text messaging. And they don't really need to give position reports anymore either because ATC can see exactly where they are not through radar but through I guess the equivalent of ADS-B.

Pretty interesting.

He did say that it gets quite constricted and sometimes you can get an inconvenient routing maybe getting beaten up by turbulence, etc, for whatever reason you don't like what you have and ATC can't help you out. His solution? Squawk 7600 and descend to FL280. You're now off the "track system" as he called it and you can do whatever you like... :eek:

Nice to know this could be happening when you're back in 32B! :lol:

Again, I don't know if this is real or just a drinking story.

Comments?
Click to expand...

I call fake. No way this happens. Have you ever seen your buddy's certificate? Sheesh.
 
Seems like at the least this would cause a maintenance ****storm on landing as the maint guys tried to recreate the "problem".
 
The communication system is CPDLC.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Controller–pilot_data_link_communications

The controller doesn't "see" the airplanes. The position reports are relayed electronically, usually automatically, via CPDLC. The controller doesn't have any idea what squawk code is on your transponder.

The transponders of all the airplanes on the tracks are set to 2000. Standard for oceanic. You get a new squawk when you coast-in at the end of the crossing.

Even with CPDLC HF radios are still used. You establish contact on HF with each facility and do a SEL-CAL test to ensure that the CPDLC has logged on properly and that your HD is avilable, tuned, and working as a backup.

VHF radios are set to 121.5 and 123.45.
 
What the hell does squawking anything do in oceanic airspace. The whole point of those tracks is that there's no radar there. And just because you've lost comms doesn't give you the right to willy nilly change altitude and fly a different flight path. In fact, it's exactly what you don't want to do.
 
flyingron said:
What the hell does squawking anything do in oceanic airspace. The whole point of those tracks is that there's no radar there. And just because you've lost comms doesn't give you the right to willy nilly change altitude and fly a different flight path. In fact, it's exactly what you don't want to do.
Click to expand...

Ron is exactly correct.

Lost Comms? Fly the last clearance you were given. both the pilot and ATC know what was expected- where the plane will be at a given time.

Look up IFR lost comm procedures.
 
I pretty much figured it out as soon as I read "drinking buddy."
 
Either your "drinking buddy" is having a bit of fun at your expense, or he's just yet another BS artist.

I vote for the latter.
 
BS... on a crossing going to FL280 is going to cause a bigger problem. fuel contamination, with air. the fuel burn a fl280 is going to cause you to come up a bit short on the other end.

bob
 
unsafervguy said:
BS... on a crossing going to FL280 is going to cause a bigger problem. fuel contamination, with air. the fuel burn a fl280 is going to cause you to come up a bit short on the other end.

bob
Click to expand...

Yup. My first thought was the fuel burn. No way.
 
Yep, if you didn't hit parallel or opposing traffic in the process.
 
flyingron said:
What the hell does squawking anything do in oceanic airspace. The whole point of those tracks is that there's no radar there. And just because you've lost comms doesn't give you the right to willy nilly change altitude and fly a different flight path. In fact, it's exactly what you don't want to do.
Click to expand...

It is very important for TCAS, if nothing else.
 
unsafervguy said:
BS... on a crossing going to FL280 is going to cause a bigger problem. fuel contamination, with air. the fuel burn a fl280 is going to cause you to come up a bit short on the other end.

bob
Click to expand...

Not if the flight is planned properly. You're suppose to plan for both a loss of cabin pressure and an engine failure. You may have to divert, though.
 
I think the process he was talking about here is first experiencing a regrettable loss of communication followed by making a decision as PIC to descend to a different altitude so that he could divert away from weather he considered to be unsafe/likely to cause injuries. I'm assuming (I don't know maybe someone can correct me) that at FL280 over the Atlantic the same IFR hemispheric rules apply? So going east would be FL270 and west FL280. Between that and TCAS there really should not be a problem with midair collisions seeing that almost everyone else is at FL290 or above.

Here is a hypothetical situation: Let's say he was at FL330 heading east and DID actually lose comms. All the radios go out and that text thingy CPDLC is also TU. Then the plane runs into severe turbulence. What would the prudent thing be to do? I'm guessing from what I've heard it WOULD be advisable to descend to below where all the tracks are, and deviate in the interest of safety. What would YOU do in that case?
 
narchee said:
Here is a hypothetical situation: Let's say he was at FL330 heading east and DID actually lose comms. All the radios go out and that text thingy CPDLC is also TU. Then the plane runs into severe turbulence. What would the prudent thing be to do? I'm guessing from what I've heard it WOULD be advisable to descend to below where all the tracks are, and deviate in the interest of safety. What would YOU do in that case?
Click to expand...
The procedures are laid out on the text on the oceanic orientation chart.

Also, to lose comm oceanic you'd have to lose your primary (CPDLC datalink), secondary, HF radios, and tertiary (VHF radio to get a relay from a nearby flight). Very unlikely five separate radios fail unless you had a total electric failure and then you've got a lot more to worry about than your lack of comm.
 
He did tell me a lot of other stories :D including one where over the Pacific many years ago he was woken up by a call asking why they hadn't reported at a certain expected time. Yes woken up. He said all three crew in the cockpit were asleep and had been for quite some time :rofl: He told it better than I did.

Quite the story teller.

Thanks for those links. Very interesting and educational.
 
narchee said:
He did tell me a lot of other stories :D including one where over the Pacific many years ago he was woken up by a call asking why they hadn't reported at a certain expected time. Yes woken up. He said all three crew in the cockpit were asleep and had been for quite some time :rofl: He told it better than I did.
Click to expand...

Now, that is believable.

A late friend of mine was a 747 pilot. He was dead-heading across the Atlantic at night. There was a full moon. He was in the upper lounge dozing lightly and woke up to see the moon in this eyes then gone. They were in a significant turn. He went to the flight deck and found all three crew members fast asleep. Because they were asleep they failed to load more waypoints in the INS (old model with 9 waypoint capacity). The turn was the result of running out of waypoints, so the airplane headed for N 0, and W 0, which is off the west coast of Africa.
 
I hope your not buying the drinks as he tells the stories.
 
narchee said:
Okay, here's another one from my ATP drinking buddy Bob (not his real name). He told me a little bit about how the track system over the North Atlantic works and how things have got a lot easier compared to previous times. They don't need to use HF anymore and can even communicate with ATC via something like text messaging. And they don't really need to give position reports anymore either because ATC can see exactly where they are not through radar but through I guess the equivalent of ADS-B.

Pretty interesting.

He did say that it gets quite constricted and sometimes you can get an inconvenient routing maybe getting beaten up by turbulence, etc, for whatever reason you don't like what you have and ATC can't help you out. His solution? Squawk 7600 and descend to FL280. You're now off the "track system" as he called it and you can do whatever you like... :eek:

Nice to know this could be happening when you're back in 32B! :lol:

Again, I don't know if this is real or just a drinking story.

Comments?
Click to expand...

Ask your drinking buddy the purpose of squawking 7600 where ATC does not have radar coverage.
 
roncachamp said:
Ask your drinking buddy the purpose of squawking 7600 where ATC does not have radar coverage.
Click to expand...

I think we can all agree the drunk bastard has been pulling my leg :lol:
 
narchee said:
I think we can all agree the drunk bastard has been pulling my leg :lol:
Click to expand...

And as long as you know that, keep on drinking with the guy. Plenty of BS flies when drinking. I have a neighbor who is so full of **** his eyes are brown. Reminds me of John Lovitz's pathological liar character from SNL even when he's sober. But he's a fun enough guy at that level.

Nod nod <sip> nod nod <sip> nod nod <spit whisky and lmao>
 
petrolero said:
And as long as you know that, keep on drinking with the guy. Plenty of BS flies when drinking. I have a neighbor who is so full of **** his eyes are brown. Reminds me of John Lovitz's pathological liar character from SNL even when he's sober. But he's a fun enough guy at that level.
Click to expand...

Not sure of the alcohol content, but this board has it's share of BS artist as well.
 
bullwinkle said:
Seems like at the least this would cause a maintenance ****storm on landing as the maint guys tried to recreate the "problem".
Click to expand...

Nah, we'd just sign it off as ops check good and go have a beer and tell each other BS stories.
 
flyingron said:
What the hell does squawking anything do in oceanic airspace.
Click to expand...


Certain military toys still work from other aircraft and they generally like you to be squawking something that they can see. Using a standard squawk that won't be used anywhere "ashore" is just common sense systems planning.
 
flyingron said:
Yep, if you didn't hit parallel or opposing traffic in the process.
Click to expand...


Just a side note: Opposing traffic isn't stacked vertically like over the U.S. And parallel traffic is offset laterally by whichever offset they choose, which may or may not be helpful when descending through them.

But doesn't matter. I'm pretty sure the drinking buddy's story is crap anyway. ;)

Y'all can listen in on all this "fun" over at LiveATC while you're reading the doc posted up there... They have the HF stuff covered.

Listening to SEL-CAL tests is great for insomnia.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top