StraightnLevel
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What reasons are there to get a Sport Pilot cert as an intermediate step on the way to PPL? What would make it a good or bad idea?
Sport Pilot as a middle step?
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StraightnLevel
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That makes sense. Is there any extra effort or time required to go from SPL to PPL that would make it take more time or cost more than going straight to PPL?
Half Fast
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What @dmspilot says is true, but....
The PPL dropout rate is high. If there is any doubt about finishing, getting the SP ticket part way through will make you a certificated pilot and enable you to fly even if you don’t complete Private. Sorta like getting an Associates degree en route to a Bachelors. At least you complete something and lock in your ticket.
If you’re one of those who does better than average, Sport can be completed in 20 hours whereas Private requires 40. Most people do take longer for both, though.
The PPL dropout rate is high. If there is any doubt about finishing, getting the SP ticket part way through will make you a certificated pilot and enable you to fly even if you don’t complete Private. Sorta like getting an Associates degree en route to a Bachelors. At least you complete something and lock in your ticket.
If you’re one of those who does better than average, Sport can be completed in 20 hours whereas Private requires 40. Most people do take longer for both, though.
Half Fast
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Not much. A second written exam and checkride. You might have to do some more solo XC if what you flew for Sport wasn’t long enough (mine wasn’t). Of course, you’ll have to complete items not included in SP like night flying, and you might need more hood time depending on how much you did for SP.
I went that route and flew for a couple of years as a SP before getting PP.
A lot depends on you (Age, money, health), how you’ll use your license (commercial or not), and availability of aircraft in your area.
One thing I’ve noticed around my airports is that most pilots, regardless of rating, don’t do much more with their PPL, INST, Commercial than a Sport Pilot does. They go up every few weeks, shoot a few landings, and do a bit of sight seeing. And a lot seriously overpaid. Some buy a Cherokee Six thinking the whole family would fly with him, only to fly alone most of the time (somehow, watching someone fly is not nearly as interesting as doing the actual flying yourself…go figure).
It is no secret that the boom in SP numbers can be found in the aging PPL/Comm community. They drop their Medicals and fly on their Driver’s License, Private Pilots exercising the privileges of a Sport Pilot.
Since we don’t know anything about you, my usual caution: You can fly SP and use your DL as a medical ONLY IF you haven’t been denied a 3rd class or better medical first.
If there is any nagging tickle in your mind that you might not pass the 3rd class or you’ve had some youthful indiscretions in the past, it can all keep you from flying (be sure to read and think about all the questions on the FAA electronic form). A lot of pilots are being snagged for lying on that form (DUIs—ever, drug use—ever, getting a disability payment from any source—ever, taken an antidepressant—ever).
One thing I’ve noticed around my airports is that most pilots, regardless of rating, don’t do much more with their PPL, INST, Commercial than a Sport Pilot does. They go up every few weeks, shoot a few landings, and do a bit of sight seeing. And a lot seriously overpaid. Some buy a Cherokee Six thinking the whole family would fly with him, only to fly alone most of the time (somehow, watching someone fly is not nearly as interesting as doing the actual flying yourself…go figure).
It is no secret that the boom in SP numbers can be found in the aging PPL/Comm community. They drop their Medicals and fly on their Driver’s License, Private Pilots exercising the privileges of a Sport Pilot.
Since we don’t know anything about you, my usual caution: You can fly SP and use your DL as a medical ONLY IF you haven’t been denied a 3rd class or better medical first.
If there is any nagging tickle in your mind that you might not pass the 3rd class or you’ve had some youthful indiscretions in the past, it can all keep you from flying (be sure to read and think about all the questions on the FAA electronic form). A lot of pilots are being snagged for lying on that form (DUIs—ever, drug use—ever, getting a disability payment from any source—ever, taken an antidepressant—ever).
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Half Fast
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The main reason I went from Sport to Private was that LSAs didn’t have enough useful load for my wife + luggage for two. If MOSAIC had been in place I could have stayed with Sport.
It’s certainly feasible to travel with an LSA, though, and many do, but it requires packing similar to a motorcycle trip. Minimalist, very light.
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Albany Tom
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I did it that way. My reason was that I wanted to learn tailwheel first, and that aircraft happened to fit light sport category. I considered getting my private in that airplane, already had a class 3, but I'd have to learn another aircraft anyway, as it wasn't equipped for either night flight or instrument training. So someone at the airport suggested I get light sport first. That seemed reasonable and quick, so that's what I did.
So like Half Fast, I had sport for a couple of years, and then got my PPL after.
I don't think there are any real advantages to sport pilot first, unless you're in a weird situation OR suspect you can't get a medical. On the other hand, the only advantages for me for PPL vs sport is that the aircraft that are available for rent or in clubs around here are too heavy to fly light sport. PA-28s, 172s, 182s. I do want to get my instrument, and maybe that'll change my perspective on things.
Btw, if you have questions about any of that, just ask. This group has helped a lot of people through possible issues. Very little is insurmountable, as long as you don’t get denied first. Even being denied a medical isn’t a deal killer, but it sure does make it all more complicated and time consuming.
ateamer
Pattern Altitude
If you can get a Third Class medical, then I don’t see any reason to get Sport Pilot. You’re eventually going to want to move up to bigger, faster planes - MOSAIC nothwithstanding, plus the extra training for Private wil be nothing but a benefit. SP right out of the chute is best for the folks who don’t meet the technical requirements for a medical but in reality are just fine to fly.
Not necessarily. I got my PP 46 years ago and have flown and owned nothing but light 1 or 2 seaters since then. My current plane is only slightly too heavy to be LSA.
StraightnLevel
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I get what you're saying, but:
MOSAIC appears to open the door to flying with my wife or one kid, as well as using a plane that is much more capable, i.e., pretty much anything with a VS1 at or below 54 KCAS (still not clear on which existing models this covers....). Their stated enactment target is within a year, right? The two complaints I see being voiced to the FAA involve the medical for night flying (why not just a vision test?) and the VS1 limit (which would be argued no matter where they elected to set it), and a change to either would work in my favor.
Now, if MOSAIC doesn't come to pass in a timely manner, then I think you are correct. If it does, though, it looks like Sport Pilot would be a really good option - at least for a couple of years while I build time,
Half Fast
Touchdown! Greaser!
Something to consider:
Many schools that offer SP training also have an accelerated program that makes it possible to finish in ~2 weeks. This assumes that you're a good, quick student and that the weather cooperates. Even if you're not able to finish in the 2 weeks, you'll be pretty close and able to knock it off quickly afterward. Some people take a couple weeks of vacation and travel to somewhere with favorable weather (FL, AZ, etc.) to get their tickets.
So, you could get your SP ticket quickly, then buy and fly an LSA, use it to have fun with your family, take some short trips, gain valuable experience, and also use the LSA to complete your Private ticket at whatever pace works for you. Buy a used LSA and you'll recover your purchase price when you're ready to get something bigger and faster.
Now, then, regarding:
Many schools that offer SP training also have an accelerated program that makes it possible to finish in ~2 weeks. This assumes that you're a good, quick student and that the weather cooperates. Even if you're not able to finish in the 2 weeks, you'll be pretty close and able to knock it off quickly afterward. Some people take a couple weeks of vacation and travel to somewhere with favorable weather (FL, AZ, etc.) to get their tickets.
So, you could get your SP ticket quickly, then buy and fly an LSA, use it to have fun with your family, take some short trips, gain valuable experience, and also use the LSA to complete your Private ticket at whatever pace works for you. Buy a used LSA and you'll recover your purchase price when you're ready to get something bigger and faster.
Now, then, regarding:
be advised that "FAA" and "timely manner" go together like "honest" and "politician."
bflynn
Final Approach
The FAA is still committed to MOSAIC being completed by the end of this year.
There were things that had to be worked out. For example, in the original proposal, it was just an expansion of sport pilot to more aircraft. But the restrictions on sport aircraft are such that any alteration, however small, had to have aircraft manufacturer approval. If it came with a Flugenspeil Ominator 5.5.4 and it broke, you have to replace with the exact same thing. Not a 5.5.5 and certainly not an otherwise identical Ominator from another brand. That didn't work with our GA fleet, so there were more changes needed. Those changes have other impacts and they're trying to get it right the first time so we can minimize irrational things like "a basicmed pilot must be PIC to be a safety pilot" or "experimental pilots can't get training in their own aircraft".
I'm optimistic. Silly me.
StraightnLevel
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Well, if it's anything like the FAFSA system (in the news due to an update release), It is guaranteed to go over budget and either take too long or not deliver on the mission intent. Maybe both.
Government bureaucracy 101.
Depending on how many hours you have when you're ready to solo, recreational pilot could be less effort than sport pilot since it doesn't require a solo cross-country. And it comes with all the privileges of sport pilot and more.
With how much DPEs are charging around here it's probably cheaper overall to go straight for the private though.
With how much DPEs are charging around here it's probably cheaper overall to go straight for the private though.
Half Fast
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No, it doesn’t. You can’t fly XC with a Rec ticket without additional training and endorsement. Also, I don’t think you can fly to the Bahamas with a Rec license, but you can with Sport. Plus Rec will require a medical.
Almost no one does Rec, and for good reason. Might as well do Private as Rec.
StraightnLevel
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That was my thinking. Once I have Class 3 Medical, I may as well go ahead and complete PPL. The advantage to Rec is not being as limited on airplane choice, but the medical requirement seems to outweigh the advantages.
Half Fast
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I suppose. That's basically the training you'd need to do to get the required solo XC endorsement required for sport pilot so it's not really extra compared to the sport ticket.
Crashnburn
Pattern Altitude
If you go SP -> PPL, make sure you do your XC, etc. to PPL standards (SP are shorter) so you don't have to redo them.
I started on my SP 2-1/2 years ago but changed over to C-172s when I found that I had to be able to use all the equipment in the plane to pass the checkride, and I could not read the Garmin GPS (early model). Just as well, as the SportStar has been grounded/totaled because the cracks in the composite fuselage will cost more to fix than the plane is worth.
StraightnLevel
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At this point, I'm thinking I'm going straight for PPL. I cleared Class 3 Med, so that benefit is off the table. Also, all of the planes at my local club/school are over the SP weight limit (172s and PA-28s), so anything I rent from them requires PPL.
Vance Breese
Cleared for Takeoff
I find it interesting that some people want the minimum amount of training and some are even proud of figuring out how to avoid training.
Every hour I have spent with flight instructors has made me a safer pilot and I continue to learn.
That is a part of what I love about aviation.
Every hour I have spent with flight instructors has made me a safer pilot and I continue to learn.
That is a part of what I love about aviation.
Crashnburn
Pattern Altitude
Sport Pilot is great if you have a miniature wife who packs light.
The main reason I went from Sport to Private was that LSAs didn’t have enough useful load for my wife + luggage for two. If MOSAIC had been in place I could have stayed with Sport.
It’s certainly feasible to travel with an LSA, though, and many do, but it requires packing similar to a motorcycle trip. Minimalist, very light.
Albany Tom
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When I first met my gf, I did remark that it was awesome that she only weighed less than 16 gallons of gas. If luggage is involved, we'd have to fly commercial, though, or I'd need to get a type rating in something.