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dans2992

dans2992

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Dans2992
Gotta love Garmin.... I believe that should be "Ded Reckoning".

Also, note that on a lot of PA28s, the "mic" jack is actually labeled "mike". I suppose the volume of these devices is so low that not too many people notice these things...


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I fail to see the spelling errors. Both "Dead Reckoning" and "Mike" have been common forms of usage for many years.
 
They are spelling errors attributable to ignorance. The fact that we recognize them does not make them right.
 
Nathaniel Bowditch, in "American Practical Navigator" uses the term "dead reckoning" throughout, although the book recognizes the "ded" term, and resultant confusion. The explanation given (as "likely", not definitive) is that "dead reckoning" is calculating position using an object that is dead in the water as a reference. "Ded" (deduced) reckoning corrects that position for current and wind.

Tim
 
timrb said:
Nathaniel Bowditch, in "American Practical Navigator" uses the term "dead reckoning" throughout, although the book recognizes the "ded" term, and resultant confusion. The explanation given (as "likely", not definitive) is that "dead reckoning" is calculating position using an object that is dead in the water as a reference. "Ded" (deduced) reckoning corrects that position for current and wind.

Tim
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The original Bowditch from 1802 did not recognize the "ded" term at all, it just used the term dead reckoning. It is only in the 20th century editions that the book recognized the "ded" term.
 
dans2992 said:
I believe that should be "Ded Reckoning".
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Merriam-Webster does not believe so. They cite usage of "dead reckoning" as far back as 1613. They do not even list "ded reckoning" as a recognized variant.

dans2992 said:
Also, note that on a lot of PA28s, the "mic" jack is actually labeled "mike".
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The word "mike" has been used since 1924 to refer to microphones. The spelling "mic" is more recent, dating only to 1961.
 
jnmeade said:
They are spelling errors attributable to ignorance. The fact that we recognize them does not make them right.
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If the dictionary, and centuries of established usage, reflect only ignorant error, then what does make spellings "right"?
 
CTLSi said:
The speculation, folk etymology, urban legend, sea cook's tale, or whatever you want to call it about "deduced reckoning" does not appear in any reputable dictionary
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Yup. Moreover, since reckoning (calculation) is inherently deductive, the phrase "deduced reckoning" would be nonsensically redundant. So even without consulting a dictionary, we'd have reason to doubt that supposed etymology (though it's unclear why anyone would promote an opinion about standardized spellings without checking a dictionary first).
 
acrophile said:
Yup. Moreover, since reckoning (calculation) is inherently deductive, the phrase "deduced reckoning" would be nonsensically redundant. So even without consulting a dictionary, we'd have reason to doubt that supposed etymology (though it's unclear why anyone would promote an opinion about standardized spellings without checking a dictionary first).
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Ok, sorry, jeez, just thought it was interesting.

I stand by my conclusion that "mike" should be "mic" on a headset though.

Even if "mike" is commonly in use - it's wrong.
 
timrb said:
Nathaniel Bowditch, in "American Practical Navigator" uses the term "dead reckoning" throughout, although the book recognizes the "ded" term, and resultant confusion. The explanation given (as "likely", not definitive) is that "dead reckoning" is calculating position using an object that is dead in the water as a reference. "Ded" (deduced) reckoning corrects that position for current and wind.

Tim
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And to think that I believed from reading about Navy & Marine pilots in WWII, flying combat from carriers with limited radar and radio silence, that it was because if you reckoned wrong about where the carrier might be, you were dead . . . :yikes:
 
dans2992 said:
I stand by my conclusion that "mike" should be "mic" on a headset though.

Even if "mike" is commonly in use - it's wrong.
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It's not just commonly in use. It was in use for decades before "mic" ever began to be used. And "mike" is in the dictionary as a word for "microphone".

What, then, makes the original spelling--the dictionary spelling--wrong, and the version that came along decades later right? You say that's your "conclusion", but you haven't mentioned what leads you to it.
 
acrophile said:
It's not just commonly in use. It was in use for decades before "mic" ever began to be used. And "mike" is in the dictionary as a word for "microphone".



What, then, makes the original spelling--the dictionary spelling--wrong, and the version that came along decades later right? You say that's your "conclusion", but you haven't mentioned what leads you to it.
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Ok, "mic" makes more sense because we're abbreviating "microphone".

Even if "mike" was in use prior, it's probably because people couldn't spell "mic". Would there be another reasonable explanation? Was "mikerophone" previously the correct spelling?

Look, I just thought it was interesting, you could very well be right. I am not trying to pick a fight here...
 
pikespeakmtnman said:
Using "mike" instead of "mic" is a huge pet-peeve of mine!
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Well, then, as a professional engineer as well as a manufacturer of avionics equipment for the last 40 years, let me reassure you that you can just stay peeved with me as my stuff has used both "mike" and "mic" interchangeably for all of my career and is likely to stay so.

Mike has been used well before WWII on audio gear (and I used to fix the old stuff at an audio shop when I was in high school) and continues to be used correctly. Mic is a relatively newcomer and is also acceptable.

Live with it.

Jim
 
dans2992 said:
Ok, "mic" makes more sense because we're abbreviating "microphone".

Even if "mike" was in use prior, it's probably because people couldn't spell "mic". Would there be another reasonable explanation? Was "mikerophone" previously the correct spelling?

Look, I just thought it was interesting, you could very well be right. I am not trying to pick a fight here...
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Cool, me neither. :) It's just that you're saying other people are mistaken and ignorant ("probably couldn't spell 'mic'") when they're actually not making any mistake at all. Between 1924 and 1961, the word "mic" hadn't even been coined, so I don't know what it could mean to say that the authors and dictionary-compilers in those decades "couldn't spell" the not-yet-existent word.

Sure, "mic" makes sense as a shortening. And "mike" makes sense as a homophone of a shortening (no, it has nothing to do with misspelling "microphone"). Words have many different kinds of origins, and standardized English spelling has long embraced both versions of that word--starting with "mike".
 
Ok, guess I'm wrong then, but I learned something!
 
timrb said:
Nathaniel Bowditch, in "American Practical Navigator" uses the term "dead reckoning" throughout, although the book recognizes the "ded" term, and resultant confusion. The explanation given (as "likely", not definitive) is that "dead reckoning" is calculating position using an object that is dead in the water as a reference. "Ded" (deduced) reckoning corrects that position for current and wind.

Tim
Click to expand...

This debate is the most useless etymological debate I have been watching for 30 years.:lol: Dead reckoning or Ded reckoning, either is culturally correct anymore, I tend to favor Ded, but am not fussed by the other in the slightest. Navigation has always been an international language to its own with no real spelling or word construction rules.
 
deaston said:
I just stumbled across this yesterday. If you really want to geek out on etymology...

http://www.straightdope.com/columns/read/2053/is-dead-reckoning-short-for-deduced-reckoning

The short version seems to be that "dead" is correct for the reasons others have noted.
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:confused: I didn't get that impression from the evidence presented.:lol: What I read is that someone who didn't know enough to understand what they were looking at changed the spelling. Spelling dictated by ignorance and stupidity in the face of Occam's Razor level evidence to the contrary is not to me what one would call definitive proof of the correct spelling. That it is accepted by stupid people has no bearing on whether it is correct, it just is and that's just all there is to that.:rofl:
 
Henning said:
:confused: I didn't get that impression from the evidence presented.:lol: What I read is that someone who didn't know enough to understand what they were looking at changed the spelling. Spelling dictated by ignorance and stupidity in the face of Occam's Razor level evidence to the contrary is not to me what one would call definitive proof of the correct spelling. That it is accepted by stupid people has no bearing on whether it is correct, it just is and that's just all there is to that.:rofl:
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That is the best example of bafflegab I've seen in a long time :goofy:

Jim
 
dans2992 said:
Ok, sorry, jeez, just thought it was interesting.

I stand by my conclusion that "mike" should be "mic" on a headset though.

Even if "mike" is commonly in use - it's wrong.
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Then I will sin, and sin again. I've never used "mic" and I have been using radios since 1947.

Bob Gardner
 
dans2992 said:
Gotta love Garmin.... I believe that should be "Ded Reckoning".

Also, note that on a lot of PA28s, the "mic" jack is actually labeled "mike". I suppose the volume of these devices is so low that not too many people notice these things...


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Click to expand...

You will be thrilled to know Weird Al Yankavic has just released a new album. He is a grammar and speeling nerd too.

http://youtu.be/8Gv0H-vPoDc
 
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So, question on pronounciation - do you guys that use the term "mic" pronounce it "mick" or "mike?"
 
As pointed out the spelling dead certainly goes back to 1613 and earlier. It's found in Ridley's Short Treatise on Magneticall Bodies and Motion which pretty much is THE reference on compass use in navigation. The use of dead is as opposed to making current "true" readings based (then) on astronomical sightings.
 
Sac Arrow said:
So, question on pronounciation - do you guys that use the term "mic" pronounce it "mick" or "mike?"
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Now you understand why you see it spelled Mike, for correct phonetic pronunciation. You have to remember, for many people English is a second or third one.
 
My favorite was always, "It's Dead Reckoning because if you reckon wrong, we're dead."
 
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