Speaking of Spins

[Don Jones]

Why is it that some aircraft are certified for spins in the utility category and others are not? My Warrior POH specifically states "Spins not approved". Funny thing is that dufus Mark, on that show where he was learning to fly and building a kit plane which aired on Discovery Channel, did spin training in a Warrior.
Different rules in England? Enlighten me oh great ones.
Don

 

[gismo]

Why is it that some aircraft are certified for spins in the utility category and others are not? My Warrior POH specifically states "Spins not approved". Funny thing is that dufus Mark, on that show where he was learning to fly and building a kit plane which aired on Discovery Channel, did spin training in a Warrior.
Different rules in England? Enlighten me oh great ones.
Don

Usually it's because the plane couldn't pass the certification requirements necessary to avoid the prohibition. And in many cases the manufacturer didn't even bother to make the attempt figuring that the market for that particular airplane wasn't looking for a spinnable bird. I also believe that designing an aircraft to comply with those requirements requires compromises in othe areas.

Bottom line, if your plane isn't certified for spins, it either hasn't been tested and proved to recover, or it was tested and failed.

 

[gibbons]

Bottom line, if your plane isn't certified for spins, it either hasn't been tested and proved to recover, or it was tested and failed.

AC 61-67C Chapter 4 summarizes the airworthiness standards for operating limitations on aircraft as they relate to spins:
Normal Category: ...to provide a margin of safety when recovery from a stall is delayed, normal category airplanes are tested during certification and must be able to recover from a one turn spin or a 3-second spin, whichever takes longer...
Aerobatic Category: The airplane must recover from any point in a spin, up to and including six turns...
Utility Category: A utility category airplane must meet the spinning requirements for both normal and aerobatic category airplanes and the applicable emergency exit requirements of section 23.807 if the aircraft is approved for spins.

Lance has it right. If Beechcraft is certifying the Bonanza, for example, they have to demonstrate it can recover from a one turn (incipient) spin. Why pay for certification for a six turn spin if the airplane isn't intended to be used that way? So, again, Lance said it. If it's not approved for spins then don't spin it. The requirement that a normal category airplane pass a flight test for a one turn (incipient) spin means that after that turn you're a test pilot.

 

[MauleSkinner]

Why is it that some aircraft are certified for spins in the utility category and others are not? My Warrior POH specifically states "Spins not approved". Funny thing is that dufus Mark, on that show where he was learning to fly and building a kit plane which aired on Discovery Channel, did spin training in a Warrior.
Different rules in England? Enlighten me oh great ones.
Don

I don't know about the Warriors, but the Cherokee 140 was originally certificated for spins. The guy that did my initial CFI training years ago did his spin training in a Cherokee 140, and he told me that the certification was removed (I think by Piper) because too many people were spinning them outside the approved envelope and getting into trouble.

There's the rumor

Fly safe!

David

 

[Graueradler]

If the spin cert for a Cherokee 140 has been revoked, I'd like to know it. The FAA republished a Piper document just a few (3 or 4) years ago re-iterating the conditions required before a spin is permissible (Weight & Balance) and directions on how to perform a spin. That document is of particular interest to Cherokee owners because it provides data for considering front seat position in doing W&B instead of just using a central position. It is helpful in accomodating a feavy passenger in the front seat. I have a copy but would have to find it to be able to provide reference numbers. I will if there is interest.

 

[gismo]

If the spin cert for a Cherokee 140 has been revoked, I'd like to know it. The FAA republished a Piper document just a few (3 or 4) years ago re-iterating the conditions required before a spin is permissible (Weight & Balance) and directions on how to perform a spin. That document is of particular interest to Cherokee owners because it provides data for considering front seat position in doing W&B instead of just using a central position. It is helpful in accomodating a feavy passenger in the front seat. I have a copy but would have to find it to be able to provide reference numbers. I will if there is interest.

I don't think Piper could or would "remove" spin certification from a product that's already been sold. They could however decide that models produced henceforth wouldn't be certified for spins even though prior models were.