Spatial Disorientation

[robertb]

Hello everyone,
While recently chatting with some pilot buddies, we talked about flying in the soup and spatial disorientation. I mentioned that I tend to get "the leans" pretty much every time I enter a cloud layer. A buddy said he only felt the feeling once before which I thought was pretty odd. For me, it is pretty significant and common. From the beginning of my IFR training, I just thought it was pretty normal to feel that way while inside a cloud. I've had a IR for about 20 years and have about 50 hours total IMC time (not hood time but legit IMC).

I am wondering how "special" I am when it comes to feeling out of whack. I do trust my gauges and rely on them. But it is not uncommon for my brain and the gauges to have a completely different idea of which way is up. So, what do you all feel about it.

 

[Daleandee]

Spatial disorientation in IMC

I feel a bit embarrassed to post this, but lately I’ve been flying IFR more and into IMC, I am particularly choosing somewhat easier conditions to start with, with ceilings typically 2500’ or so, so I could go back VFR if needed. On a recent flight, after a bunch of vectoring, some light chop...

www.pilotsofamerica.com

 

[MauleSkinner]

More than likely it’s caused, at least in part, by disuse. With an average of 2.5 hours in actual per year, how much hood time do you get in a year?

 

[mandm]

When I enter IMC, my workload goes from 5 to 100 in half a second. Instead of the peaceful calm of a beautiful VFR flight, I’m suddenly working and have responsibility. It almost feels slightly uncomfortable.

I have a constant scan of my instruments, and I inform pax that it is high workload time aka be quiet. Now where I get messed up is with ATC, I’ll have situational awareness and a route given, then ATC will switch it up. Vectors are great, but it’s when they switch it up after vectors, if in IMC, I’ll need to adjust the GPS while maintaining my scan and flight. I remember playing with the GPS with ATC’s new direct to identifier and suddenly I was in a banking left turn instead of right. I stopped playing with the GPS and started to fix the heading of the airplane and that gave me spatial disorientation pretty bad. The feeling stayed with me for hours, I was fighting it hard. I suddenly gave up and requested lower to be in VMC. Lesson learned is to request vectors from ATC and don’t ever take a direct to while in IMC unless you are ahead of the airplane but even then I’ll probably ask for vectors and ask my pax to program the GPS with the next waypoint and let ATC know I need vectors until I get the GPS set up.

 

[eman1200]

….Lesson learned is to request vectors from ATC and don’t ever take a direct to while in IMC unless you are ahead of the airplane…..

eh? seems like an easyish thing to do. maybe they should come up with a button solely dedicated to going direct somewhere…..

 

[mandm]

eh? seems like an easyish thing to do. maybe they should come up with a button solely dedicated to going direct somewhere…..

I had to input a new waypoint

 

[Tools]

Never… ever… however, I could never understand why lead would always do barrel rolls while flying night IMC formation. Made it hellish tough…

 

[Zeldman]

Early in my career everytime I entered a cloud it felt as if the plane stood straight up. I really had to work to not push the yoke forward.

When I started flying IFR pretty regularly the problem went away.

 

[robertb]

Spatial disorientation in IMC

I feel a bit embarrassed to post this, but lately I’ve been flying IFR more and into IMC, I am particularly choosing somewhat easier conditions to start with, with ceilings typically 2500’ or so, so I could go back VFR if needed. On a recent flight, after a bunch of vectoring, some light chop...

www.pilotsofamerica.com

Thanks for the link! That thread was a good read.

 

[robertb]

More than likely it’s caused, at least in part, by disuse. With an average of 2.5 hours in actual per year, how much hood time do you get in a year?

I get more hood time than actual and do make it a point to stay current more than legally required. San Diego doesn't offer much IMC time building as it is usually just a couple thousand feet thick layer to pop through. If it hard IMC, ATC will give us routes between 6,000 and 9,000'. They like to route us right into the freezing levels here and I don't like to challenge mother nature in our 182.

 

[robertb]

When I enter IMC, my workload goes from 5 to 100 in half a second. Instead of the peaceful calm of a beautiful VFR flight, I’m suddenly working and have responsibility. It almost feels slightly uncomfortable.

I have a constant scan of my instruments, and I inform pax that it is high workload time aka be quiet. Now where I get messed up is with ATC, I’ll have situational awareness and a route given, then ATC will switch it up. Vectors are great, but it’s when they switch it up after vectors, if in IMC, I’ll need to adjust the GPS while maintaining my scan and flight. I remember playing with the GPS with ATC’s new direct to identifier and suddenly I was in a banking left turn instead of right. I stopped playing with the GPS and started to fix the heading of the airplane and that gave me spatial disorientation pretty bad. The feeling stayed with me for hours, I was fighting it hard. I suddenly gave up and requested lower to be in VMC. Lesson learned is to request vectors from ATC and don’t ever take a direct to while in IMC unless you are ahead of the airplane but even then I’ll probably ask for vectors and ask my pax to program the GPS with the next waypoint and let ATC know I need vectors until I get the GPS set up.

Agreed. Having a capable passenger/co-pilot is great. I have never been embarrassed to request a little help from ATC. They'd rather give me a hand than have me mess up their plan by surprising them.

 

[MauleSkinner]

I get more hood time than actual and do make it a point to stay current more than legally required. San Diego doesn't offer much IMC time building as it is usually just a couple thousand feet thick layer to pop through. If it hard IMC, ATC will give us routes between 6,000 and 9,000'. They like to route us right into the freezing levels here and I don't like to challenge mother nature in our 182.

More than legally required still doesn’t equate to proficiency. I’d get with a good instructor and have him run you through the wringer for 10 or 15 hours over a couple of weeks, and see if that has an effect.

 

[robertb]

More than legally required still doesn’t equate to proficiency. I’d get with a good instructor and have him run you through the wringer for 10 or 15 hours over a couple of weeks, and see if that has an effect.

I appreciate the input. But, how can I get 10-15 of actual? I do great under the hood and my IPCs always end with the instructor saying "Why did you have me do this? You're good." The only time I get the SD/leans is when in IMC. I suppose I could just wear a hood anytime I am getting near actual.

 

[MauleSkinner]

I appreciate the input. But, how can I get 10-15 of actual? I do great under the hood and my IPCs always end with the instructor saying "Why did you have me do this? You're good." The only time I get the SD/leans is when in IMC. I suppose I could just wear a hood anytime I am getting near actual.

I’m not suggesting 10-15 hours of actual…I’m suggesting 10-15 hours of extremely active instrument scan and interpretation.

Since you haven’t provided any answers to how much time you spend under the hood annually, I’m still suggesting disuse as a primary factor.

 

[robertb]

I’m not suggesting 10-15 hours of actual…I’m suggesting 10-15 hours of extremely active instrument scan and interpretation.

Since you haven’t provided any answers to how much time you spend under the hood annually, I’m still suggesting disuse as a primary factor.

Fair enough. Honestly, I don't know how much hood time I get. I log it when I need it for currency and such but I fly under the hood at other times it doesn't always get logged. I'd say perhaps 10-15 hours a year of hood time. I fly under the hood more than I do in IMC. I know that much as we have severe clear here 99% of the time often. And even when needing to file, it is usually just a short time until we are ridding on top of the undercast.

To get back to my point though, my scan and flying is fine. It is leaning feeling I get when in IMC. It usually comes as I am multi-tasking. My butt-in-seat feels like the plane is straight and level. When I get back on the gauges after looking away, I find my brain and plane don't always agree and there is a large disconnect inside of me. Most of the time, the plane is usually pointed in the correct direction with the correct attitude. But when I look back up from doing whatever, I may feel I am in a 45 degree bank or 10 degree dive and the PFD is saying I'm straight and level.
I suspect I am just far more susceptible to the feelings of SD than others and was curious to hear what others experience. I can stare at the gauges and do just fine. But as when looking away for a chart, radio adjustment, petting the dog in the back seat, or grabbing a snack, my head gets a little wonky.

 

[Pugs]

Never… ever… however, I could never understand why lead would always do barrel rolls while flying night IMC formation. Made it hellish tough…

The boat at night, no moon, where the junior officers are sent. We push out of Marshall (holding) and going. Through 5000’ (what we called platform altitude) my pilot says “Pugs I have the leans” I reply, “yea, so do I Curly”. The issue was we had them in different directions and we realized it when our shoulders touched as we leaned trying to correct. Lots of concentration on that approach and a toast of bug juice in the wardroom afterwards to surviving another night trap.

We all get it.

 

[Pinecone]

I get a few degrees of "leans"

I just tilt my head slightly and all is good. I even get them in the sim, including non-motion sims.