SoCal flying advice needed...

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PeterDudek

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PeterDudek
I'm a 100 hour student pilot taking my checkride this Friday.

One of the reasons I decided to become a pilot was to avoid driving through the LA area to get to San Diego.

Now that I'm getting close to being able to do that I realize just how complex the area is.

My question for you is: "What advice would you give a new pilot who wants to begin making trips through the LA area to land in the San Diego area?

Thank you in advance!
 
You don't say which direction you're coming from, but 11500ft may be your friend.
 
Gibbs at KMYF is what I use. KSAN is actually GA-friendly if you're headed downtown.

The LAX transition routes on the back of the LA TAC are all easy -- the easiest is the SFRA. Take them one at a time, study the bejeesus out of them before flying.

Get flight following for the ENTIRE route. The controllers are super helpful. Mention "student pilot" and they'll be nice to you and keep you out of trouble. They'll do it without the code word too.

get a moving map GPS if you dont have one already. It's comforting. :)
 
PeterDudek said:
I guess that's part of the advice I need...which airport in San Diego would be best for a new pilot to use for his first flights into the area?
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Can depend on alot of things like time of day, your comfort level with talking on the radio...etc.

Where in SD do you need to go?

MYF is probably the most convenient GA airport to most things in the San Diego area. Controllers are generally friendly, but traffic can be pretty busy at times, so you'd definitely need to have your head on a swivel. And be clear and concise in your radio transmissions.

If traffic intimidates you, Brown Field (SDM) is the most benign. Long runway and not very busy.

Definitely use Flight Following for your 1st trip into SD. The San Diego Bravo is a bit convoluted between Miramar and Lindbergh and not hard ot bust if you get pre-occupied trying to contact tower. SoCal approach is pretty accomodating and will often clear you into the Bravo even without you asking for it.....but they can't help you if you aren't talking to them.
 
Fearless Tower said:
Can depend on alot of things like time of day, your comfort level with talking on the radio...etc.

Where in SD do you need to go?

MYF is probably the most convenient GA airport to most things in the San Diego area. Controllers are generally friendly, but traffic can be pretty busy at times, so you'd definitely need to have your head on a swivel. And be clear and concise in your radio transmissions.

If traffic intimidates you, Brown Field (SDM) is the most benign. Long runway and not very busy.

Definitely use Flight Following for your 1st trip into SD. The San Diego Bravo is a bit convoluted between Miramar and Lindbergh and not hard ot bust if you get pre-occupied trying to contact tower. SoCal approach is pretty accomodating and will often clear you into the Bravo even without you asking for it.....but they can't help you if you aren't talking to them.
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Thanks for the advice Fearless! I'm NOT fearless talking on the radio but I'm forcing myself to practice and get more comfortable. I wouldn't dream of making the trip without Flight Following. And thanks for the heads up on the San Diego airports.

Follow up question - crossing the LA basin from the north, would you recommend crossing the LAX VOR and flying along the coast? Or keeping the route inland?
 
PeterDudek said:
Follow up question - crossing the LA basin from the north, would you recommend crossing the LAX VOR and flying along the coast? Or keeping the route inland?
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I guess that depends on how you feel about crossing through the corridors in LA. If you wanted to avoid all that, you probably could cross the mountains and then descend below the Bravo west of Chino and then fly down Lake Elsinore, French Valley...etc and approach MYF from the east.

If you plan on flying the LA corridors, I'd stay along the coast all the way to Mt Soledad (La Jolla) and then turn toward MYF. That is probably the most scenic. If you approach from Mt Soledad, you can expect to enter the left downwind for 28L. If you approach from the east, you'll get a straight in to either 28L or 28R.
 
Fearless Tower said:
If you plan on flying the LA corridors, I'd stay along the coast all the way to Mt Soledad (La Jolla) and then turn toward MYF. That is probably the most scenic. If you approach from Mt Soledad, you can expect to enter the left downwind for 28L. If you approach from the east, you'll get a straight in to either 28L or 28R.
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I think I'd be okay with that. Scenic is good. And at 11,500 there/12,500 back I should be out of the way for the most part, correct?

And really, thanks for the help. It's really nice of you. :)
 
No brainer to me, straight shot at 11.5K. Personally when I go to San Diego I like to fly in to Gillespie Field (KSEE). Friendlier than Montgomery Field and easy to get in and out of. You can get in from the Northeast and avoid Bravo airspace but it's easier just getting flight following and picking up a Bravo clearance.
 
PeterDudek said:
I think I'd be okay with that. Scenic is good. And at 11,500 there/12,500 back I should be out of the way for the most part, correct?

And really, thanks for the help. It's really nice of you. :)
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You'll probably want to descend around SNA (John Wayne) and as you approach San Diego, you have two options - either go down to 3500 to pass between San Diego Class B layers west of Miramar, or drop down to 1500' and go under the Bravo. I personally like flying low there, just off the beach, but watch for any banner tow planes.

Check the NOTAMS before you go - R-2303A & D is only hot/active like 5 days a year. When it is active, it will be NOTAM'ed.
 
Sac Arrow said:
Personally when I go to San Diego I like to fly in to Gillespie Field (KSEE). Friendlier than Montgomery Field and easy to get in and out of.
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Yeah, except it sure has gotten alot of foreign students with less than optimal english skills. MYF controllers are plenty friendly, as long as you can talk on the radio.
 
Fearless Tower said:
Yeah, except it sure has gotten alot of foreign students with less than optimal english skills. MYF controllers are plenty friendly, as long as you can talk on the radio.
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I meant that in reference to the ground facilities and the fact that KSEE is a lot less busy. I have no issue with the controllers.
 
I'm lazy I take I-5 and as I approach the San Fernando Valley BUR VNY I skirt east over Pasadena and stay east of the mess all the way down to San Diego.

Paul
N1431A
N83802
2AZ1
 
The only crazy thing about MYF is that their tower has opted to not arrange flight following--you have to pick it up in the air from SoCal after you depart. Why? No idea. Maybe they are too busy? I fly out of a sleepy little airport in the valley (KVNY) and they find the time to arrange flight following and bravo clearances.

Mike
 
My solution to flying in the LA area is careful planning.
 
My solution to flying in the LA area is being at least 10,000 before I get there, or on an IFR flight plan, usually both. (I fly out of KMYF)
 
Wow. Thanks everyone for all the great advice! I wish I could be IFR on my trips there but I will just be starting my IFR training when I make my first trip.

While I'm in San Diego, I'd really like to get some supplemental Flight Instruction for flying in the Southern California area from someone who lives/works there and teaches in that area.

If any of you are flight instructors that can do that (or if you can recommend someone) let me know!
 
Fearless Tower said:
You'll probably want to descend around SNA (John Wayne) and as you approach San Diego, you have two options - either go down to 3500 to pass between San Diego Class B layers west of Miramar, or drop down to 1500' and go under the Bravo. I personally like flying low there, just off the beach, but watch for any banner tow planes.

Check the NOTAMS before you go - R-2303A & D is only hot/active like 5 days a year. When it is active, it will be NOTAM'ed.
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Thanks Fearless - I was wondering about the altitudes and those restricted areas.
 
PeterDudek said:
I'm a 100 hour student pilot taking my checkride this Friday.

One of the reasons I decided to become a pilot was to avoid driving through the LA area to get to San Diego.

Now that I'm getting close to being able to do that I realize just how complex the area is.

My question for you is: "What advice would you give a new pilot who wants to begin making trips through the LA area to land in the San Diego area?

Thank you in advance!
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Really? I did Long Beach to Palomar as my first student cross country. Don't sweat it, I'm surprised you're this far along and your instructor hasn't gotten you a lot more familiar with the airspace. By the time I was taking my check ride I could confidently navigate anywhere in SoCal with no more than a chart in my lap and a view out the window and before I had a 100hrs I'd do it without a chart and knew all the tower frequencies.

I used my Travelair to commute all over SoCal including between Catalina and Long Beach, you'll get used to it really quickly once you start doing it.
 
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i didn't have much trouble "transitioning" to buzzin' around SoCal in the early 90's when I flew out of KVNY for a summer.

Be comfortable talking on the radio (take a deep breath, tell 'em what you need, they're generally helpful... they're not Chicago... LOL!), and plan a route that'll let you stay VFR outside the Bravo IF they can't clear you through (in other words, have a backup plan) and you should be able to toddle around SoCal without much problem, I would think.

SoCal Approach controllers were always professional and helpful. At least they were 15 years ago... :)
 
The IPAD with geo referencing really helps you navigate the airspace. My tip would be to always have a back up route that you know will keep you clear of airpspace issues. Just incase you have issues communicating with appropriate ATC. Ocasionaly I fly from Corona to John Wayne. A very short/busy flight, with multiple airspace issues. If I get hold of So Cal quickly, its a nice relaxing flight. If they are busy and can't take me, I have a back up route I know keeps me clear of airspace. I can stay clear until ATC is ready to give me clearance.

LAX being the exception, but my experience is that the controlers will give you clearance and or vectors through most all class B and C airspace in So Cal. Including San Diego Class B.

Once you are in the system, its pretty simple. You best have a plan for LAX. They mean business and have ZERO tolerance for mistakes that infringe into their airspace.

If you plan on making this a frequent trip, I would experiemnt until you find a route that your comfortable with. Good luck. So Cal is one of the most beautiful places to fly. They say if you can manage our airspace you can pretty much handle anything. The LA basin is an amazing mix of pretty much everything.

Don't forget the DisneyLand TFR
 
andybean said:
LAX being the exception, but my experience is that the controlers will give you clearance and or vectors through most all class B and C airspace in So Cal. Including San Diego Class B.

Once you are in the system, its pretty simple. You best have a plan for LAX. They mean business and have ZERO tolerance for mistakes that infringe into their airspace.
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That is a good point about transiting the LA Class B. If you are above it, no big deal, but if you plan to transit through it, you need to have your plan down before you get there. The controllers are generally friendly, but will typcically ask you "how do you plan to transit the class B"? So....be prepared.
 
PeterDudek said:
My question for you is: "What advice would you give a new pilot who wants to begin making trips through the LA area to land in the San Diego area?

Thank you in advance!
Click to expand...

Get CFI or perhaps experienced pilot who can show you how to navigate around the airspaces without getting in trouble.
 
Fearless Tower said:
That is a good point about transiting the LA Class B. If you are above it, no big deal, but if you plan to transit through it, you need to have your plan down before you get there. The controllers are generally friendly, but will typcically ask you "how do you plan to transit the class B"? So....be prepared.
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You can also get in and out of Monkey Field to the North East under the Bravo if you don't mind flying below the hilltops.
 
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Peter, right after my checkride I did a "challenging" Bravo area flight. During my training at an untowered field, we didn't talk to ATC that often so I was nervous.

To prepare, I found a new CFI and we agreed beforehand to a one hour "ground" brief. He told me his hourly rate, and I told him I'd meet him at a coffee shop, with his one hour in cash. He brought print outs, shared tips, etc, and made me feel confident about flying through complex airspace.

Perhaps this is something you can do, but, by all means, if you can afford to take a CFI with you on your first flight to San Diego, do that. After many trips in the Bravo now, I'm no longer scared.
 
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