So you wanna be an airline pilot

I'd say most of those videos are heavily outdated now. At one point they were quite true but not so much anymore.
 
What part has changed in your opinion?

Several things really, for one you can't get hired anymore with just 300 hours and the ability to use the word "Dude" in every sentence. That in itself creates a culture of people who REALLY want to be there and embrace both the lifestyle and type of flying as well an understanding of the concept of paying dues. Gone are the days of rich kids that flunk out of college and think "Hey I'll try this for awhile".

Secondly much of angst captured in the satire of these videos arose from the stagnation of the Regional Airline picture of the past. Now there is a great deal of movement into the majors and will be for the foreseeable future when factoring in retirements and FAR Part 117. Even if the mandatory retirement age is raised to 67 that would only put a two year slow down on things. So I really think the short sighted whining that is the basis for these types of videos is coming to a close.
 
Several things really, for one you can't get hired anymore with just 300 hours and the ability to use the word "Dude" in every sentence. That in itself creates a culture of people who REALLY want to be there and embrace both the lifestyle and type of flying as well an understanding of the concept of paying dues. Gone are the days of rich kids that flunk out of college and think "Hey I'll try this for awhile".

Secondly much of angst captured in the satire of these videos arose from the stagnation of the Regional Airline picture of the past. Now there is a great deal of movement into the majors and will be for the foreseeable future when factoring in retirements and FAR Part 117. Even if the mandatory retirement age is raised to 67 that would only put a two year slow down on things. So I really think the short sighted whining that is the basis for these types of videos is coming to a close.

If you don't have shiny jet syndrome you can come up to Alaska, be your own boss, and make more than twice as much as a first year regional pilot. Oh, and you'll get 2 weeks off a month.


It's turrible. stay away.
 
If you don't have shiny jet syndrome you can come up to Alaska, be your own boss, and make more than twice as much as a first year regional pilot. Oh, and you'll get 2 weeks off a month.


It's turrible. stay away.

You had me until you mentioned 35k a year. I'd hope to make more than that.
 
Although I feel like always being able to one-up scary flying stories around the campfire is probably worth about another $20k.

Not the mention the great food. I know I've posted it in another thread, but after this weekends fishing adventure I've got enough salmon in the freezer to eat like a king for a month.
 
I'd love to go back to Alaska.....just sayin'.

Need any low time comm pilots to haul boxes around?
 
What are the typical mins needed to get hired in AK? Are most of the 135 flights VFR? Is everything up there taildraggers?

pt135 vfr mins will get you a job with a reference assuming people are hiring. It's probably 80/20 VFR/IFR. Most planes are Cessna 207s and 208s, there are also a number of 172s, a few Casas, Beavers, Helio Couriers, and a few other oddball airplanes.
 
Some of these are not too far from the truth...
 
pt135 vfr mins will get you a job with a reference assuming people are hiring. It's probably 80/20 VFR/IFR. Most planes are Cessna 207s and 208s, there are also a number of 172s, a few Casas, Beavers, Helio Couriers, and a few other oddball airplanes.
Give me a shout if you know anyone needing a 'van driver... A 208 in AK is about the epitome of flying/living in my mind.
 
Add another $15k and you're pretty much there. What a sad state of affairs.

So I guess 3x the salary of a regional FO?
That sounds better... and about what I'm making now.

Not the mention the great food. I know I've posted it in another thread, but after this weekends fishing adventure I've got enough salmon in the freezer to eat like a king for a month.

I don't like seafood. Will I survive?
 
I was just having dinner with a friend last night that is trying to fly for a major airline. He has about 5,500 hours with a lot of 1900, KA350, PIC time. He's is back stepping down to a FO position at Mesa flying the CRJ out of Dulles so he can get jet time and 121. That means a long commute, crash pad, pay cut in half, etc. He is hopeful that in a few years he can upgrade and be back at his prior salary. Then in another few years get picked up by a major. So about 10,000 hours of turbine experience to be a junior FO.

Seems like the road is really steep.
 
be your own boss, and make more than twice as much as a first year regional pilot. Oh, and you'll get 2 weeks off a month.


It's turrible. stay away.

Yeah but you don't make first year pay for more than a year typically. Gotta look further up the payscale ladder to make a true comparison.
 
I was just having dinner with a friend last night that is trying to fly for a major airline. He has about 5,500 hours with a lot of 1900, KA350, PIC time. He's is back stepping down to a FO position at Mesa flying the CRJ out of Dulles so he can get jet time and 121. That means a long commute, crash pad, pay cut in half, etc. He is hopeful that in a few years he can upgrade and be back at his prior salary. Then in another few years get picked up by a major. So about 10,000 hours of turbine experience to be a junior FO.

Seems like the road is really steep.

That's foggin' stupid. If he already has accrued the magic 1000TPIC via other means, such as part 135/91 1900/KA350 flying, then the ticket is to find the regional closest to his physical domicile and pad his resume with that 121 SIC chaff time, and wait to get picked up.

Here's the thing though, looking at his stats, I wouldn't do any of that! He's already met the mins for Jetblue and Spirit. Glass time is not a deal breaker and he's not otherwise competitive against the likes of military retirees or senior RJ captains, so he isn't gonna be picked up by DL/UA/AA/SW this early in the hiring wave anyways. If I were him I'd stay in my living wage position waiting in the comfort of my domicile and established life until an actual opportunity worth wrecking your schedule for actually presented itself. Sweet Christ some people just do life all wrong.
 
That's foggin' stupid. If he already has accrued the magic 1000TPIC via other means, such as part 135/91 1900/KA350 flying, then the ticket is to find the regional closest to his physical domicile and pad his resume with that 121 SIC chaff time, and wait to get picked up.

Here's the thing though, looking at his stats, I wouldn't do any of that! He's already met the mins for Jetblue and Spirit. Glass time is not a deal breaker and he's not otherwise competitive against the likes of military retirees or senior RJ captains, so he isn't gonna be picked up by DL/UA/AA/SW this early in the hiring wave anyways. If I were him I'd stay in my living wage position waiting in the comfort of my domicile and established life until an actual opportunity worth wrecking your schedule for actually presented itself. Sweet Christ some people just do life all wrong.

My friend is hoping that Mesa opens a hub in Dallas and that he can bid for it. Apparently you don't have any choices initially and as a rule they send every FO to the worst base, Dulles, for a couple of years. I agree it would be more comfortable and pay a lot better to be home flying KA's, but he feels he's BTDT. He's been told his lack of jet 121 time is his biggest hurdle.

I know another guy getting out of the service as a C17 aircraft commander with lots of hours big jet PIC. He is going to work at a regional as a CRJ FO also.

I'm no expert just reporting what I'm hearing. Sounds tough out there.
 
do you meet pt135 vfr mins?

I don't as of yet but should by the beginning of the fall. I'm hoping to position myself to be employable in the great white north by next summer at the latest.

I received my PPL at UAA a couple of years ago and I have flown hundreds of ours since then but I can't shake the pull....
 
Somewhat out of context, I know only a couple of pilots with a lot of time in the major airlines and they are not very happy aviators. I know half a dozen who fly for big private corporations and they are generally quite happy aviators. I know a dozen or more who fly for "building time" 135 and 91 operations and they're generally "hopeful" (and mostly young).
Based on my limited perspective, I'd rather fly for John Deere or Bridgestone than United.
 
Somewhat out of context, I know only a couple of pilots with a lot of time in the major airlines and they are not very happy aviators. I know half a dozen who fly for big private corporations and they are generally quite happy aviators. I know a dozen or more who fly for "building time" 135 and 91 operations and they're generally "hopeful" (and mostly young).
Based on my limited perspective, I'd rather fly for John Deere or Bridgestone than United.

I'm not even an airline guy (just merely a cheap seat military fence sitter with a T-38 at my disposal to keep me from taking airline aspirations seriously this early in my career), but my experience with my peers has been the opposite. The part 91/135 folks are always hussling and losing jobs; the airline guys, especially the ones who chose to live in their assigned domicile, love life. I will caveat this by saying that since all of them are military, the airline guys in particular have been incredibly fortunate to be able to essentially mil-leave away the first 5 years of crappy airline schedules and QOL. Civilian airline pilots don't have that luxury available to them, which makes a huge difference. I'd do the same thing if I were them honestly, hate the game not the playa' type of thing....
 
I'm not even an airline guy (just merely a cheap seat military fence sitter with a T-38 at my disposal to keep me from taking airline aspirations seriously this early in my career), but my experience with my peers has been the opposite. The part 91/135 folks are always hussling and losing jobs; the airline guys, especially the ones who chose to live in their assigned domicile, love life. I will caveat this by saying that since all of them are military, the airline guys in particular have been incredibly fortunate to be able to essentially mil-leave away the first 5 years of crappy airline schedules and QOL. Civilian airline pilots don't have that luxury available to them, which makes a huge difference. I'd do the same thing if I were them honestly, hate the game not the playa' type of thing....

Many of the 121 guys I run into aren't ex military.

I'd agree with the previous poster, getting on with a big (like publicly traded big) 135 is a good way to go.
 
It's hard to assess the overall quality of a major airline career because the industry is so cyclical. Two pilots born only a few years apart can make exactly the same decisions as they move up the ladder but still wind up with wildly different careers. Timing is huge, and while you can do things to stack the odds in your favor, you need to be willing to risk not having the career you wanted, even after doing everything 'right'.
 
It's hard to assess the overall quality of a major airline career because the industry is so cyclical. Two pilots born only a few years apart can make exactly the same decisions as they move up the ladder but still wind up with wildly different careers. Timing is huge, and while you can do things to stack the odds in your favor, you need to be willing to risk not having the career you wanted, even after doing everything 'right'.
You never really know until the end of your career. Back around 15-20 years ago people told me I should try to get on with an airline. That's not what I wanted so I didn't, and ended up at a company that does charter/management/air ambulance. Then 9/11 happened and many of the people who had told me to go to the airlines were furloughed. On the other hand, corporate and fractional looked like wiser choices. People told me I should ditch my current job and find a better job doing one or the other. Then came the great recession when many corporate/fractional pilots I knew lost their jobs, but I still had mine. Now it seems that both airlines and corporate are hiring but who knows how long that will last. You never know what will happen over a long period of time. Sometimes you will think you were smart and other times not.
 
If you don't have shiny jet syndrome you can come up to Alaska, be your own boss, and make more than twice as much as a first year regional pilot. Oh, and you'll get 2 weeks off a month.


It's turrible. stay away.

Don't you have to start as a ramper, vs actually flying with a regional?? At least that how it was on Ice Pilots and Flying Wild Alaska? :dunno:
 
It's hard to assess the overall quality of a major airline career because the industry is so cyclical. Two pilots born only a few years apart can make exactly the same decisions as they move up the ladder but still wind up with wildly different careers. Timing is huge, and while you can do things to stack the odds in your favor, you need to be willing to risk not having the career you wanted, even after doing everything 'right'.


Yup... This is spot on.

This career is a dice roll. My old man was a Pan Am guy that went over to Delta when they bought the Atlantic routes in early '91. If you told him, when he got hired at Pan Am in '66, that he'd retire from Delta 30 years later, he'd have laughed at you, as Delta was not much more than a regional at the time.

I've done pretty well in this business, but a lot of it was luck. I also heeded some great advice from my dad and others coming up, some of which made a huge impact on the course of my career. I can name dozens of my peers that went different ways, and ended up starting over in their 40's when their airline went belly up.

I was lucky, and got my furloughs and Chapter 7s out of my system before I was 30. I worked in MX, line service 135 charter, corporate, 135 airline, 121 cargo and 121 airlines. The best job I've had, by far, is the 121 airline stuff. I've been at my current airline for almost 19 years.

The best advice I can give is to get as much time (preferably MEL PIC turbine), as soon as you can and always take the earliest class date. Seniority is life in the airline world. The QOL and pay at the first jobs is going to suck, bad, but it is a means to the end. Just suck it up, work your butt off and the hours will pile up, allowing you to jump to the next tier.

Also, never commute..... Move to a domicile when you are relatively certain the job will be around a while. It'll be a 100% improvement in QOL and in many cases, a nice pay raise.
 
Don't you have to start as a ramper, vs actually flying with a regional?? At least that how it was on Ice Pilots and Flying Wild Alaska? :dunno:

Short answer, no.

I went to Alaska with something like 550 total hours. I left 7 years later with more than 6500 hours. It was split between single piston, single turbine, twin piston and twin turbine. No floats, I can't swim.

Withing a year I was making 50k, still flying VFR only. As I made IFR part 135 minimums pay started increasing yearly. I left making only 99k a year. I stopped flying at 99k to keep taxes down.

Want a recession proof flying job? Think air ambulance. I now fly about 300 hours a year making more than I made in Alaska. And still get two weeks off a month.
 
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