So what did you think of Ariel Tweto's first solo?

[TMetzinger]

I think you have to completely ignore the chronology of the segments shown.

What I saw in the actual in-cockpit segments on the "solo" episode showed a student who had the fundamentals down, and was doing a reasonable job of flying and landing the airplane. Assuming the pre-solo test was ok, then she was probably ready to go.

I haven't sent a student to solo yet, but I've been seeing it done and I'm 99% sure we always endorse the student certificate and logbook before they do their solo flight, not afterwards.

 

[gprellwitz]

I enjoyed seeing Ariel's first solo. The show does a good job of presenting GA in a positive light. But, there's something I didn't get and I haven't seen anybody mention it. My AFD says that Unalakleet has a runway 8-26. It's 1,900 ft long, more than long enough for a 152. So if Ariel was facing a 15 kt left crosswind on 33, why didn't she just land on 26? Did I miss something? Still, it was great to see the smiles all around as she solo'ed.

I mentioned that same point in the FWA thread here.

Another point is the decreasing wind speed. The graphic when they show the windsock is 27mph. Then we hear the instructor in an interview say it's 15Kt, and then her shirttail says 10Kt.

 

[racer11]

She did o.k. I also would have thought her dad would have been there to see it, so who knows if it was a re-enactment. I think her instructor could have done a better job; sounds like more crosswind training for sure. Also, sending her out cold in questionable conditions was a bad idea...as a CFI I always flew with the student directly before and then "got out" to have them go alone, and also explained that the airplane would react a little differently with one less person on board.

 

[Dr. O]

Ummm, the little bit I have seen she appears to me to be an airhead... She had 13 hours and dad bought a 150 for her because she could not remember which way the trim button worked on the 207... She jerks the 150 off the ground and out of ground effect into an almost departure stall and is completely unable to fly around the pattern and line up with the runway... I have not seen other episodes but based on what I saw on that one she is not cut out for flying... If they send her out solo into Alaskan weather for her solo XC, there may be a bad ending next summer...

 

[Greg Bockelman]

Ummm, the little bit I have seen she appears to me to be an airhead... She had 13 hours and dad bought a 150 for her because she could not remember which way the trim button worked on the 207... She jerks the 150 off the ground and out of ground effect into an almost departure stall and is completely unable to fly around the pattern and line up with the runway... I have not seen other episodes but based on what I saw on that one she is not cut out for flying... If they send her out solo into Alaskan weather for her solo XC, there may be a bad ending next summer...

Keep in mind, all we REALLY know about her ability to fly is what the editors choose to show. And I am convinced that there is a LOT of made up drama in the editing.

 

[Cap'n Jack]

Keep in mind, all we REALLY know about her ability to fly is what the editors choose to show. And I am convinced that there is a LOT of made up drama in the editing.

Yep. The drama is only a little more real than professional wrestling.

 

[Jim Logajan]

She did o.k. I also would have thought her dad would have been there to see it, so who knows if it was a re-enactment.

If the past is any indication, it is likely he wasn't around during her solo. I note that only because there is this from the bio on Ferno from the Discovery website:

"Ferno and Jim have worked side by side to build their company from its simple beginnings, making many sacrifices along the way. On the day of their wedding Jim didn't return home from work until 6am, exhausted from a long night of flying cargo across Alaska. He managed to make it through the ceremony, but afterwards went straight home to bed while Ferno celebrated the day with his brothers. Ferno wasn't too pleased about Jim's absence, but they have developed a give and take in their relationship that has allowed them to live and work together 24/7 and still enjoy each other's company"
​

From: http://dsc.discovery.com/tv/flying-wild-alaska/bios/ferno-tweto-bio.html

 

[jesse]

I haven't sent a student to solo yet, but I've been seeing it done and I'm 99% sure we always endorse the student certificate and logbook before they do their solo flight, not afterwards.

One should..a LOT of instructors don't. Mostly because the weather and conditions are perfect and the student probably just demonstrated they are flying real well and it sucks to have to stop, get out, and write a bunch of stuff in their logbook.

I just print up stickers and slap them in the students logbook, sign their certificate, and they're set. Only takes a minute then I'm good paperwork wise.

 

[roadwarrior]

I thought that she did great. Her enthusiasm for GA is great. I was happy for her. So what if it was hammed-up. It's tv!

 

[azure]

I enjoyed seeing Ariel's first solo. The show does a good job of presenting GA in a positive light. But, there's something I didn't get and I haven't seen anybody mention it. My AFD says that Unalakleet has a runway 8-26. It's 1,900 ft long, more than long enough for a 152. So if Ariel was facing a 15 kt left crosswind on 33, why didn't she just land on 26?

For a student pilot who's barely able to land on a mile long runway, I think 1900 feet is a little bit short, even in a 150.

But until I looked up the runway length, I was thinking the same thing.

Not to mention when she landed and said "I'm done!", I kept shouting, "Keep holding that left aileron! Fly it til you're stopped and tied down!"

 

[Tom-D]

For a student pilot who's barely able to land on a mile long runway, I think 1900 feet is a little bit short, even in a 150.

But until I looked up the runway length, I was thinking the same thing.

Not to mention when she landed and said "I'm done!", I kept shouting, "Keep holding that left aileron! Fly it til you're stopped and tied down!"

In 25+ MPH head winds what is the over the ground speed when landing the 150?

1900 feet to get it stopped ? not a problem.

 

[azure]

In 25+ MPH head winds what is the over the ground speed when landing the 150?

I thought they said 15 kts. If it was really 25+ mph (or 20+ kts), straight across the runway, she did REALLY well.

1900 feet to get it stopped ? not a problem.

It shouldn't be a problem for a certificated pilot. But for a 20 hour pilot on her first solo? Did she ever train dual on that runway, or one as short as that? Was she able to consistently put it down in the first 1000 feet of the runway? I'm not sure I could when I only had 20 hours.

 

[murphey]

Aww come on now. I haven't seen "Real Men of the Mid-Sized Company IT Department" yet.

We could get some action shots of an idiot like me trying to rack a heavy server above my head, and big dramatic pauses before the commercial break right when I'm about to type "service tomcat5 restart" into the console to "save the company and everyone's jobs".

When does the film crew get here?

And don't forget about the Incredibly Awesome & Highly Dangerous Halon Test in the server room. Light a match. Watch the Halon fog the room. Break for Commercial with (*ominous music*) Will everyone live?

 

[Tom-D]

I thought they said 15 kts. If it was really 25+ mph (or 20+ kts), straight across the runway, she did REALLY well.

The cross wind runway would place the wind right on the nose

It shouldn't be a problem for a certificated pilot. But for a 20 hour pilot on her first solo? Did she ever train dual on that runway, or one as short as that? Was she able to consistently put it down in the first 1000 feet of the runway? I'm not sure I could when I only had 20 hours.

You did not answer the question..

 

[TMetzinger]

I think the solo shirt said "10 knot crosswind MY ASS!" Referring to the fact that the winds were higher.

I believe most schools and CFIs have a limit on winds for student solos. At our school I tihink it was 7 knots XWC for first solo. Instructors gradually move it up as the students progress.

 

[MBDiagMan]

Yep. I have thought that from the first episode. Her character is a ditz. She is not.

I also agree with others, this is an aviation themed show, not a show about aviation. I have had a lot of people ask me about aviation as a result of the show, and the fact that Ariel could take and survive lessons made aviation seem more "approachable".

God knows we need more aviation stories on TV, especially ones that don't involve VX gas rockets under the wings of a Cub, or Cessnas with a nuke on the back seat.
But no. My mom used to say you could give some folks a free car, and they'd be mad it wasn't the color they wanted.

Maybe they need to rerun "Sky King" and "Whirlybirds."

 

[MBDiagMan]

As I remember you had to to pass a pre-solo written test from your CFI, on emergency procedures and such.

Anyone wanna bet on her ever getting the PPL? I say she stays a student. She's done.

Being that she was just telling Dad how she just read about airspace and such there's no way she passed her pilot's written test yet...and I doubt she will in the near future. Imagine her trying to grok engine operation, flight planning, fuel consumption, and navigation by VORs and ADFs.

And she's so ditzy she almost walked into the spinning prop! THAT would have been a season ender!

Yeah, I'll take the bet. She has a lot of determination and she doesn't have to worry about where the flight training money will come from. Also, the main reason she wanted to learn to fly to begin with is that everyone else in her family is a pilot.

It will be awhile because she's probably back in SoCal at school, but she'll get there.

 

[MBDiagMan]

For a student pilot who's barely able to land on a mile long runway, I think 1900 feet is a little bit short, even in a 150.

But until I looked up the runway length, I was thinking the same thing.

Not to mention when she landed and said "I'm done!", I kept shouting, "Keep holding that left aileron! Fly it til you're stopped and tied down!"

I don't know if you have watched all of the episodes in her training. It's difficult to tell because of all the editing. There's no way to even be sure that all of the footage of her flying, such as cameras placed on the outside of the plane were really her flying.

If all the footage claimed to be hers was indeed hers, I think she would have been fine in 1900 feet with a good head wind in a 150. She had been putting it on the center stripe and setting it down on the very end of the runway. She had been taught that way as I was, and as I expect everyone is.

Even with no crosswind, I think she could have set down a 150 and rolled it out in 1900 feet.

That said, she might have been more comfortable with lots of runway than with no cross wind.

I think she did good.

 

[MBDiagMan]

I thought they said 15 kts. If it was really 25+ mph (or 20+ kts), straight across the runway, she did REALLY well.


It shouldn't be a problem for a certificated pilot. But for a 20 hour pilot on her first solo? Did she ever train dual on that runway, or one as short as that? Was she able to consistently put it down in the first 1000 feet of the runway? I'm not sure I could when I only had 20 hours.

My instructor would have never let you solo. He demanded putting it no further down the runway than the numbers.

 

[Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe]

Sounds like you just like 16 year olds...

Well I am 17 so...

I think the individual in question is well into her 20's - Old. Way old.

I recall seeing a clip on you tube of some show that starred a bunch of guys in a Cessna with parachutes - in the clip I saw, some guy was flying some other Cessna and the door had popped open and his girlfriend/ wife had fallen out and was hanging from the door sill or something. After the parachute guy did an air to air transfer and somehow saved the babe. They land and the hero delivers this big lecture to the other pilot about how they should always wear a parachute when flying.

Makes the reality show look like reality.

 

[azure]

You did not answer the question..

You have a wonderful command of the obvious, Tom.

 

[azure]

My instructor would have never let you solo. He demanded putting it no further down the runway than the numbers.

Neither did mine -- at 20 hours. When I did solo (in a 150), I had it down right on the numbers and stopped in about 500 feet, all three times. But I had a LOT more than 20 hours then (medical issues)... and even at 20 hours I wasn't flying like Ariel.

 

[azure]

Even with no crosswind, I think she could have set down a 150 and rolled it out in 1900 feet.

That said, she might have been more comfortable with lots of runway than with no cross wind.

And that's my point, that unless she'd trained on that runway and was comfortable on it, it would have seemed awfully short compared to 15/33. It's one thing to be able to land on the numbers and get it stopped quickly, it's another thing to have to or else. We never saw her practicing spot landings. There might also be reasons we don't know about -- like construction, or squirrely winds on final due to the FBO buildings, or...

 

[nddons]

My instructor would have never let you solo. He demanded putting it no further down the runway than the numbers.

My first instructor did as well. My second instructor didn't care. Then my third (and final PPL) instructor wanted me to use the 1,000 ft. mark as my aim point. Good thing, too. I was told that my DPE felt that anything short of the 1,000 foot mark was a failure.

When I did my IR training, everything was at the 1,000 foot mark. Since then, I've forced myself to try to do spot landings, including on the numbers.

 

[rbhankins001]

And that's my point, that unless she'd trained on that runway and was comfortable on it, it would have seemed awfully short compared to 15/33. It's one thing to be able to land on the numbers and get it stopped quickly, it's another thing to have to or else. We never saw her practicing spot landings. There might also be reasons we don't know about -- like construction, or squirrely winds on final due to the FBO buildings, or...

If I had been in her shoes, or her CFI communicating via radio, I would have preferred to land into the wind on a shorter runway. If I was going to land long I would do a go around and try again.

Landing speed in a 150 is around 60-70 mph. With 10-15kt headwind ground speed is pretty low. I'd think you could "get r done" in 1900 ft.

That, of course, assumes that 8/26 was usable.

I also think the show is good for GA (despite the "hollywood magic").

-Rob

 

[gprellwitz]

I think the solo shirt said "10 knot crosswind MY ASS!" Referring to the fact that the winds were higher.

I believe most schools and CFIs have a limit on winds for student solos. At our school I tihink it was 7 knots XWC for first solo. Instructors gradually move it up as the students progress.

I missed that addendum ("MY ASS!"), and it is more in keeping with the other two speeds mentioned. 5 - 7 Kt crosswind limitation for solo sounds about right.

 

[Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe]

I think the individual in question is well into her 20's - Old. Way old.

I recall seeing a clip on you tube of some show that starred a bunch of guys in a Cessna with parachutes - in the clip I saw, some guy was flying some other Cessna and the door had popped open and his girlfriend/ wife had fallen out and was hanging from the door sill or something. After the parachute guy did an air to air transfer and somehow saved the babe. They land and the hero delivers this big lecture to the other pilot about how they should always wear a parachute when flying.

Makes the reality show look like reality.

Ok, I was wrong.

They didn't do an air to air - they were just ready to do a jump to catch her while the pilot of the jump plane told the pilot with the wife to put it in a slip - "Top rudder! Top rudder!". After the lecture, the pilot agrees that the wife needs to take skydiving lessons and wear a 'cute if she wants to fly with him again.

 

[Tom-D]

If I had been in her shoes, or her CFI communicating via radio, I would have preferred to land into the wind on a shorter runway. If I was going to land long I would do a go around and try again.

Landing speed in a 150 is around 60-70 mph. With 10-15kt headwind ground speed is pretty low. I'd think you could "get r done" in 1900 ft.

That, of course, assumes that 8/26 was usable.

I also think the show is good for GA (despite the "hollywood magic").

-Rob

Stall speed with flaps on a C-150 is 48mph, 1.2 over that is your approach speed, do the math, and subtract the 25 mph, and you'll know the rollout speed.

My estimates are about 30 MPH to stop in 1900' wouldn't be too difficult even for a first solo.

 

[Pilawt]

After the lecture, the pilot agrees that the wife needs to take skydiving lessons and wear a 'cute if she wants to fly with him again.

... at least if she flies with him without a seat belt in a 182 with the door off.



I watched Ripcord a lot when I was a kid. Though Ken Curtis went on to better roles (e.g. Festus Haggen in Gunsmoke), I always associated him with Ripcord.

I'd forgotten about the "Don't try this at home" speech in Ripcord -- it almost mirrors Ariel's in FWA.

 

[mikea]

And don't forget about the Incredibly Awesome & Highly Dangerous Halon Test in the server room. Light a match. Watch the Halon fog the room. Break for Commercial with (*ominous music*) Will everyone live?

What happens when you push that big red button by the door?

The boss found out....



...and that IBM minis don't like having the power go off.

 

[gprellwitz]

What happens when you push that big red button by the door?

The boss found out....



...and that IBM minis don't like having the power go off.

And what happens when the wheeled cart rolls uncommanded down the ramp off the raised floor, crashing through the glass door at the bottom and the halon system goes off!

 

[Ghery]

Maybe they need to rerun "Sky King" and "Whirlybirds."

Complete with the original commercials?

 

[cwa_flyer]

Does anyone know the actual date of Ariel's solo? Not the "Aired on Date", the date she actually flew it.

Also, based upon my training in a Cessna 150, maximum demonstrated crosswind component is 12 kt, (per POH). I would think a 152 would not be different.

 

[KSCessnaDriver]

Also, based upon my training in a Cessna 150, maximum demonstrated crosswind component is 12 kt, (per POH). I would think a 152 would not be different.

Remember, that's just the maximum demonstrated crosswind. Not a limitation.

 

[Greg Bockelman]

Also, based upon my training in a Cessna 150, maximum demonstrated crosswind component is 12 kt, (per POH). I would think a 152 would not be different.

If you get caught out, you do what it takes. As others have said, Max Demonstrated Crosswind Component is not a limit.

 

[bjohnsonmn]

By Definition...
A Good landing is one you can walk away from.
A Great landing is one where you can take off in the same plane again.

Therefore, I would say it was a great landing! If that definition is good enough for all of us, it's good enough for her.

Kudos from one recent PPL ASEL to a Student!

 

[bjohnsonmn]

I think the solo shirt said "10 knot crosswind MY ASS!" Referring to the fact that the winds were higher.

I believe most schools and CFIs have a limit on winds for student solos. At our school I tihink it was 7 knots XWC for first solo. Instructors gradually move it up as the students progress.

My solo limit was 15kts cross, and with the fall we had around KFCM, it was the only way I could keep my training moving. Needless to say we had done a LOT of wind training before I was allowed to launch on my own.

This is a GREAT opportunity to get people excited about learning to fly, even if we may need to set them straight on a few things along the way... I believe that is called "Hangar Talk"... :wink2: