So, how the hell am I supposed to know this?

EdFred

EdFred

Taxi to Parking
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White Chocolate
I went out and shot my 6 and 1 (6 and 3 actually) at KBIV and KHLM on Monday. We went out and did the ILS to 26 and the RNAV (GPS) to 26. I then go to dial in the RNAV (GPS) to 8. It's not in the Jepp database for my 430! So I call Jeppesen today, asking why that is. They say it's been NOTAMed N/A.

I have the new FAA approach chart for GPS 8 that is valid from March 16 until April 13, or so. Nothing on the chart says I can't use it. Nothing in the A/FD says I can't use it. I even called FSS and asked for all NOTAMS at BIV and HLM that day, and they said nothing about the GPS 8 approach being unavailable. I got D notams and L notams, and FDC notams. No mention of GPS 8 being unavailable.

Ok, so after the GPS 8 we ask for the NDB (GPS) at HLM from Muskegon Approach. "We are not authorized to issue that." WHAT?!?!? Again, I have an approach chart that says nothing about it being unavailable. I have the A/FD that says nothing about it being unavailable, and FSS never said it was NOTAMed out.

So how the *bleep* *bleep* *bleep* *bleep* *bleep* *bleepedy* *bleeping* *bleep**bleep**bleep* am I supposed to know this??
 
N2212R said:
So how the *bleep* *bleep* *bleep* *bleep* *bleep* *bleepedy* *bleeping* *bleep**bleep**bleep* am I supposed to know this??
Click to expand...

notams.faa.gov

Data Current as of: Thu, 23 Mar 2006 18:43:00 GMT

KBIV TULIP CITY[Back to Top]</U></B>
FDC 5/6491 - FI/T HOLLAND/TULIP CITY, HOLLAND, MI. RNAV (GPS) RWY 8 ORIG-A ... VOR/DME RNAV RWY 8 AMDT 2B ... PROCEDURE NA. WIE UNTIL UFN
KHLM PARK TOWNSHIP[Back to Top]</U></B>
08/067 - 12/30 CLSD TSNT WIE UNTIL UFN
08/066 - AP CLSD TGL WIE UNTIL UFN
FDC 1/7190 - FI/T PARK TOWNSHIP, HOLLAND, MI TAKE-OFF MINIMUMS AND DEPARTURE PROCEDURES NA. NDB OR GPS RWY 23, AMDT 2B.... PROCEDURE NA. WIE UNTIL UFN

Greg
182RG
 
ggroves said:
notams.faa.gov

Data Current as of: Thu, 23 Mar 2006 18:43:00 GMT

KBIV TULIP CITY[Back to Top]</U></B>
FDC 5/6491 - FI/T HOLLAND/TULIP CITY, HOLLAND, MI. RNAV (GPS) RWY 8 ORIG-A ... VOR/DME RNAV RWY 8 AMDT 2B ... PROCEDURE NA. WIE UNTIL UFN
KHLM PARK TOWNSHIP[Back to Top]</U></B>
08/067 - 12/30 CLSD TSNT WIE UNTIL UFN
08/066 - AP CLSD TGL WIE UNTIL UFN
FDC 1/7190 - FI/T PARK TOWNSHIP, HOLLAND, MI TAKE-OFF MINIMUMS AND DEPARTURE PROCEDURES NA. NDB OR GPS RWY 23, AMDT 2B.... PROCEDURE NA. WIE UNTIL UFN

Greg
182RG
Click to expand...

Then why when I specifically asked for ALL notams from FSS was I not given them??
 
i believe that FSS will only give you published NOTAMS if you specifically ask for them i.e. "I would like to get published NOTAMS" Of course, it would have been nice of them to do that when you asked for all NOTAMS. I understand your frustration. If you were counting on one of those approaches to get home, it could ruin your day.
 
They are FDC notams:

[FONT=Arial,Helvetica]Flight Services Stations maintain a list of all FDC NOTAMs concerning areas within 400 NM of their facilities. These NOTAMs are provided in a Standard Weather Briefing.[/FONT]
  • [FONT=Arial,Helvetica]FDC NOTAMs which are published in the Notice to Airmen Publication (NTAP) or are located more than 400 NM from the FSS's facilities are not included in a Standard Weather Briefing.[/FONT]
    • [FONT=Arial,Helvetica]If you wish to hear these NOTAMs, you must specifically request them.[/FONT]
You would be all day listening to the list of FDC notams.

Greg

182RG
 
tonycondon said:
i believe that FSS will only give you published NOTAMS if you specifically ask for them i.e. "I would like to get published NOTAMS" Of course, it would have been nice of them to do that when you asked for all NOTAMS. I understand your frustration. If you were counting on one of those approaches to get home, it could ruin your day.
Click to expand...

This is why I feel it is 100% necessary to have Internet access before I fly, especially into IMC conditions. I simply don't use FSS anymore unless it is for an abrieviated briefing. I file via DUATS, use ADDS for weather, the TFR site, and the NOTAM office web site.

Greg
182RG
 
I asked for notams specifically at these two airports, I didn't get them. I even said I was going out to do approaches, and still didn't get them which were approach NOTAMS. Can I get a refund on my user fee for crap service?
 
N2212R said:
...can I get a refund on my user fee for crap service?
Click to expand...

User fee?
 
SCCutler said:
User fee?
Click to expand...

Sarcasm. They want to charge us for this in the future. Do I get a refund when I don't get the product I asked for??
 
N2212R said:
Sarcasm. They want to charge us for this in the future. Do I get a refund when I don't get the product I asked for??
Click to expand...
Nope. Never. Nada. That's why I'm 100% opposed to user fees. We get nothing out of C90 now. Why would it be any different if we paid additionally?
 
Interesting thread. Maybe I haven't been looking at everything I should when I do a preflight briefing. I always get the DUATS route briefing through AOPA's Real Time Flight Planner and skim through the NOTAMs that come up. Is that enough or should I be checking some additional site(s) for other NOTAMs that may be significant??? (I also always get a briefing from whatever AFSS answers 800WXBRIEF, but most of the time they don't mention any NOTAMs other than unlit towers.)
 
Greg, would you mind posting the list of links you use, in the order you use them? I tend to sort of bounce around (no landing jokes please!) and am still trying to figure out wth I am doing . . .
 
etsisk said:
Greg, would you mind posting the list of links you use, in the order you use them? I tend to sort of bounce around (no landing jokes please!) and am still trying to figure out wth I am doing . . .
Click to expand...
.

No problem

http://adds.aviationweather.noaa.gov/

for weather information - particular focus on Air/Sigmets, Radar, Icing, TAFs, Forecast, Convection (depending on the time of year)

http://www.duats.com/

for flight planning, route briefing (to be legal), and IFR flight plan filing.

http://tfr.faa.gov/tfr2/list.html

for TFR's

https://www.notams.faa.gov/

for Notams (also available under the Route Briefing)

Enjoy!

Greg
 
Once the NOTAM is published in a publication (such as the AF/D), it may be removed from the NOTAM list, and FSS will not have the NOTAM to give to you.

An example was the ILS-13 at HYI that was OTS for the better part of a year. After about 4 months in the NOTAM list, it was published in the AF/D and removed from the NOTAMs.

I agree that FSS sometimes misses those things. It's part of the reason I pull a DUAT briefing, then call FSS to file & cross check.

Fee for service. Blech. That's trouble with a capital T
 
Just be happy it wasn't a pop-up TFR and your not face down on the asphault somewhere ....

N2212R said:
I went out and shot my 6 and 1 (6 and 3 actually) at KBIV and KHLM on Monday. We went out and did the ILS to 26 and the RNAV (GPS) to 26. I then go to dial in the RNAV (GPS) to 8. It's not in the Jepp database for my 430! So I call Jeppesen today, asking why that is. They say it's been NOTAMed N/A.

I have the new FAA approach chart for GPS 8 that is valid from March 16 until April 13, or so. Nothing on the chart says I can't use it. Nothing in the A/FD says I can't use it. I even called FSS and asked for all NOTAMS at BIV and HLM that day, and they said nothing about the GPS 8 approach being unavailable. I got D notams and L notams, and FDC notams. No mention of GPS 8 being unavailable.

Ok, so after the GPS 8 we ask for the NDB (GPS) at HLM from Muskegon Approach. "We are not authorized to issue that." WHAT?!?!? Again, I have an approach chart that says nothing about it being unavailable. I have the A/FD that says nothing about it being unavailable, and FSS never said it was NOTAMed out.

So how the *bleep* *bleep* *bleep* *bleep* *bleep* *bleepedy* *bleeping* *bleep**bleep**bleep* am I supposed to know this??
Click to expand...
 
Lance F said:
Interesting thread. Maybe I haven't been looking at everything I should when I do a preflight briefing. I always get the DUATS route briefing through AOPA's Real Time Flight Planner and skim through the NOTAMs that come up. Is that enough or should I be checking some additional site(s) for other NOTAMs that may be significant??? (I also always get a briefing from whatever AFSS answers 800WXBRIEF, but most of the time they don't mention any NOTAMs other than unlit towers.)
Click to expand...
You have to check the option box to get FDC NOTAMS on DUATS, and then you'd have to be able to speed read to pick out what really mattered to you out of the 120 or so pages of ALLUPPERCASE ENC ODED LING O ED ABB REVIATED CRAPP IOLA it gives you.

You get the standard 40 page blanket post 9-11 NOTAMS and such.

Ya know, if a certain organization could set up some client software to pick what is unusual and of interest to you out of al of that....
 
SCCutler said:
By the way, in case you want to know what user fees might look like, check it out:

http://www.airservicesaustralia.com/pilotcentre/avcharge/price/contract2006/std2006_3_jan.pdf


Imagine: people opting out of using ATC to save money. Safety? Who needs it.
Click to expand...

Crigey. Has there been any study of GA incidents in Australia since the implementation of the fees? Or maybe, just as importantly, a study of GA useage since implementation?

I can't believe that Crocodile Boyer, or Phil Dundee could not rally the troops down there, 'specially knowing their independent streak....
 
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