timwinters
Ejection Handle Pulled
That's Master Bader to you!
Skydive Pilot Bails at KFES (Festus, MO)
- Thread starter timwinters
- Start date
That's Master Bader to you!
U
Unregistered
Guest
Jessie,
So you can beat a hop n' pop down but you can't beat full altitude load??
I would think it would be the other way around, was the other way around for me, even our turbine wouldn't beat a hop & pop, and even our 206 would dust half to 3/4 of the full altitude jumpers. This doesn't really apply to the clubs, for the large full time 7 day a week tandem factories with full time pilots you're expected to turn quick times and know how to manage your aircraft according.
So you can beat a hop n' pop down but you can't beat full altitude load??
I would think it would be the other way around, was the other way around for me, even our turbine wouldn't beat a hop & pop, and even our 206 would dust half to 3/4 of the full altitude jumpers. This doesn't really apply to the clubs, for the large full time 7 day a week tandem factories with full time pilots you're expected to turn quick times and know how to manage your aircraft according.
jesse
Touchdown! Greaser!
Hop n' Pop is easy to beat in the 182. I can go down way faster than they descend under canopy.
The problem is that when we start from 10,000 there is no way I'm going to descend as fast as they free fall. So they get a hell of a head start.
Freefall they're like 10,000 fpm. There is no way to do a sustainable 10,000 fpm descent in a 182 in any safe manner, IMO. Under canopy they're like a thousand fpm or less.
It's pointless here to do stupid **** to beat them to the ground. Trashing airplanes isn't cheap either and a minute longer isn't going to change the bottom line where I've flown whatsoever.
Last edited:
ClimbnSink
Ejection Handle Pulled
- Joined
- Oct 11, 2007
- Messages
- 6,997
- Display Name
Display name:
Greg
You need to beat the airplanes up getting down so you can wait for slow lazy jumpers on the ground...
U
Unregistered
Guest
Acoording to my alti2 altimeter.
Random recent jump
Exit altitude 9,900 AGL
Deployed at 3,900 AGL
Free Fall time: 40 seconds
Canopy time: 3 minutes 29 Seconds
Average Speed Down: 100mph
Speed Down at 6k: 120mph
Speed Down at 3k: 13mph
So from exit to feet on the dirt it was 4 minutes 9 seconds
A decent 206 driver should be able to peg the VSI at 2k, and yield about 3.5k ish
A turbine sound average 4.5k ish FPM
So from a jump run at 10k if I was your last jumper you should be able to beat me easily.
As for beating the plane up, again little clubs will be different then big operations, we had a very nice analyzer, if you keep your engine within parameters and your airframe in parameters a heavy decent ain't a big deal.
Random recent jump
Exit altitude 9,900 AGL
Deployed at 3,900 AGL
Free Fall time: 40 seconds
Canopy time: 3 minutes 29 Seconds
Average Speed Down: 100mph
Speed Down at 6k: 120mph
Speed Down at 3k: 13mph
So from exit to feet on the dirt it was 4 minutes 9 seconds
A decent 206 driver should be able to peg the VSI at 2k, and yield about 3.5k ish
A turbine sound average 4.5k ish FPM
So from a jump run at 10k if I was your last jumper you should be able to beat me easily.
As for beating the plane up, again little clubs will be different then big operations, we had a very nice analyzer, if you keep your engine within parameters and your airframe in parameters a heavy decent ain't a big deal.
timwinters
Ejection Handle Pulled
Why in the world would anyone go "unregistered" to debate this?
Grow a pair.
Grow a pair.
jesse
Touchdown! Greaser!
No clue. The skydive pilot world is full of a bunch of stupid pilot tricks that are justified by BS that doesn't actually add up. I've always been incredibly impressed with how safe most skydivers try to be, but the operations pilot side is always pretty sad.
- Joined
- Jun 7, 2008
- Messages
- 4,723
- Location
- Indian Hills Airpark Salome, AZ
- Display Name
Display name:
N1431A
When I was jumping, a Para-Commander was in vogue and wings were brand new. We would normally open 18-2200 feet AGL. It's been a few years now.
Why so high?
Paul
Salome, AZ
Dead Stick
Line Up and Wait
The only skydiving I've done is by zooming in on Google Earth.
U
Unregistered
Guest
Before Wings eh? So pre-2000?
Lol yeah 3900 is higher then I normally pull, just playing with a new canopy
And for the unregistered, just don't feel like registering
Blue skies
Lol yeah 3900 is higher then I normally pull, just playing with a new canopy
And for the unregistered, just don't feel like registering
Blue skies
U
Unregistered
Guest
Jessie, for someone who knows so much about how to fly jumpers, where did you work? Spaceland? Lodi? San Diego? Chicago? Turbine operator?
I don't recall seeing you on dropzone or the diver drivers on FB.
You really should get on there and let all the multi thousand hour turbine ATP guys, who do this full time for a living, know how to fly jumpers
I don't recall seeing you on dropzone or the diver drivers on FB.
You really should get on there and let all the multi thousand hour turbine ATP guys, who do this full time for a living, know how to fly jumpers
timwinters
Ejection Handle Pulled
You really should get on there and let all the multi thousand hour turbine ATP guys, who do this full time for a living, know how to fly jumpers
Unregistereds aren't allowed to assert that their dick is bigger than a regular member's, especially a MC member.
The fact that you're too afraid to register pretty much tells us everything we need to know about your penis size.
jesse
Touchdown! Greaser!
Jessie, for someone who knows so much about how to fly jumpers, where did you work? Spaceland? Lodi? San Diego? Chicago? Turbine operator?
I don't recall seeing you on dropzone or the diver drivers on FB.
You really should get on there and let all the multi thousand hour turbine ATP guys, who do this full time for a living, know how to fly jumpers
Unlike you, I have no interest in jumping on other forums to tell people how they should do things. I write what I think based on what I've done. I've flown jumpers in 182s and I wrote based on what the reality of doing that is.
Do I know jack **** about flying jumpers in turbines? Nope, nor do I care to. I never claimed I did.
What are you even trying to tell me? I maintain that in my opinion there is no responsible way to beat jumpers to the ground in a 182 from 10k unless they pull their canopy stupidly high. I don't measure my worth, my manhood, or much of anything based on my refusal to do stupid pilot tricks.
You could record a video of you doing just that, beating jumpers to the ground in a 182 with you as the pilot and send it my way. I most likely wouldn't even bother to watch it.
The egos of pilots in the skydive world is just hilarious to me. There is nothing difficult about flying jumpers and I find it quite boring. I suspect you've never even flown them and instead you're a skydiver that is marveled by the skill your pilots have tricked you into thinking they have. Don't fall for it, it's about the worst job in the flying business done by those that can't find anything better to do with their time that day.
Last edited:
U
Unregistered
Guest
Oh ok
Being good at flying jumpers involves flying well on both sides if the envelope, its all stick and rudder with no automation, you need to take a plane at max gross, bring it to the lowest speed and power setting while a massive CG and weight change occurs, the get your a$$ down as quickly as possible while maintaining your a/c parameters. It's easy to suck at it but does require some skill to be proficient enough to work full time at a serious facility. Add to that picking a spot and flying a jump run where upwards to 20 jumpers can exit and make it back,
PLUS you are working with TIs and fun jumpers who always want you to fly and know enough about metars, clouds and FARs to be annoying.
Honestly you want boring go play in the 121 world (of course you would need to get your ATP before you could do that). Pt 105 ops involves much more FLYING skills then instructing, that's for sure.
I'll leave it be, just do go talking about flying jumpers as if you know what you're talking about when you've only done it as a weekend warrior, get 500hrs under your belt flying jumpers and half way to your A license and then your opinion may have value.
Being good at flying jumpers involves flying well on both sides if the envelope, its all stick and rudder with no automation, you need to take a plane at max gross, bring it to the lowest speed and power setting while a massive CG and weight change occurs, the get your a$$ down as quickly as possible while maintaining your a/c parameters. It's easy to suck at it but does require some skill to be proficient enough to work full time at a serious facility. Add to that picking a spot and flying a jump run where upwards to 20 jumpers can exit and make it back,
PLUS you are working with TIs and fun jumpers who always want you to fly and know enough about metars, clouds and FARs to be annoying.
Honestly you want boring go play in the 121 world (of course you would need to get your ATP before you could do that). Pt 105 ops involves much more FLYING skills then instructing, that's for sure.
I'll leave it be, just do go talking about flying jumpers as if you know what you're talking about when you've only done it as a weekend warrior, get 500hrs under your belt flying jumpers and half way to your A license and then your opinion may have value.
jesse
Touchdown! Greaser!
You obviously don't fly jumpers, you just jump. I also suspect you don't hold a single pilots certificate. Flying jumpers is damn right peaceful compared to flying single pilot IFR in under equipped airplanes with no autopilot on no sleep while dealing with thunderstorms and icing conditions.Oh ok
Being good at flying jumpers involves flying well on both sides if the envelope, its all stick and rudder with no automation, you need to take a plane at max gross, bring it to the lowest speed and power setting while a massive CG and weight change occurs, the get your a$$ down as quickly as possible while maintaining your a/c parameters. It's easy to suck at it but does require some skill to be proficient enough to work full time at a serious facility. Add to that picking a spot and flying a jump run where upwards to 20 jumpers can exit and make it back,
PLUS you are working with TIs and fun jumpers who always want you to fly and know enough about metars, clouds and FARs to be annoying.
Honestly you want boring go play in the 121 world (of course you would need to get your ATP before you could do that). Pt 105 ops involves much more FLYING skills then instructing, that's for sure.
I'll leave it be, just do go talking about flying jumpers as if you know what you're talking about when you've only done it as a weekend warrior, get 500hrs under your belt flying jumpers and half way to your A license and then your opinion may have value.
You seem to have a problem with what I've written but you can't specifically point out a single thing that's incorrect. Not worth my time, don't you have some airplanes to jump out of? Keep worshiping your jump pilots, you need them, but don't fall for thinking what they do is hard. It isn't.
DavidWhite
Final Approach
Oh ok
Being good at flying jumpers involves flying well on both sides if the envelope, its all stick and rudder with no automation, you need to take a plane at max gross, bring it to the lowest speed and power setting while a massive CG and weight change occurs, the get your a$$ down as quickly as possible while maintaining your a/c parameters. It's easy to suck at it but does require some skill to be proficient enough to work full time at a serious facility. Add to that picking a spot and flying a jump run where upwards to 20 jumpers can exit and make it back,
PLUS you are working with TIs and fun jumpers who always want you to fly and know enough about metars, clouds and FARs to be annoying.
Honestly you want boring go play in the 121 world (of course you would need to get your ATP before you could do that). Pt 105 ops involves much more FLYING skills then instructing, that's for sure.
"Stick and rudder"
"Flying at both sides of the envelope"
Sorry, your entire post is a crock of ****. You guys fly in good weather and the wind is never blowing more than 20 knots. That sounds pretty boring to me.
Edit: I figure I might as well mention that I'm 5 jumps towards my A license and so far really enjoying the sport, but don't kid yourself. Flying jumpers is not nearly the most difficult or daring job in the aviation industry. Not even close.
Last edited:
ClimbnSink
Ejection Handle Pulled
- Joined
- Oct 11, 2007
- Messages
- 6,997
- Display Name
Display name:
Greg
Unreg if flying jumpers is so awesome why do parachute packers make more money then jump pilots?
U
Unregistered
Guest
Same reason the a hotel manager makes more than a airline pilot.
I think you'd be surprise to see what's on my ticket.
Saying one type of flying is harder than another just shows lack of real world knowledge.
The stick and rudder (lack of automation) in flying jumpers is far more compared to CFIing or most 135 single pilot IFR where you have to have that nice auto pilot.
Single pilot 135 IFR involves much more planning, regs and thinking ahead compared to 105 ops
121 involves much more lube compared to most any other ops (minus a few guys).
I find it funny when a weekend warrior guy who flew a ****ty jump run once in a 182, thinks they know jack about the job, if you're not turning loads and hot fueling for a 8hr day flying 20 jumpers and turning constant times, well you just sound like some kid who flew a 121 route on flightsim and now knows everything.
I think you'd be surprise to see what's on my ticket.
Saying one type of flying is harder than another just shows lack of real world knowledge.
The stick and rudder (lack of automation) in flying jumpers is far more compared to CFIing or most 135 single pilot IFR where you have to have that nice auto pilot.
Single pilot 135 IFR involves much more planning, regs and thinking ahead compared to 105 ops
121 involves much more lube compared to most any other ops (minus a few guys).
I find it funny when a weekend warrior guy who flew a ****ty jump run once in a 182, thinks they know jack about the job, if you're not turning loads and hot fueling for a 8hr day flying 20 jumpers and turning constant times, well you just sound like some kid who flew a 121 route on flightsim and now knows everything.
U
Unregistered
Guest
Jessie,
I did object to mostly your proclaimed knowledge of the industry, especially after you said how you know little and don't care to know much about the industry, after which you proclaim how bad jump pilots are, speaking out of ignorance bothers me, especially when you don't want to learn about the group of people you are insulting.
Your comment about anyone who beats jumpers down must be tearing the plane up or doing something stupid
Those are the two nuggets of misinformation I took objection to the most
I did object to mostly your proclaimed knowledge of the industry, especially after you said how you know little and don't care to know much about the industry, after which you proclaim how bad jump pilots are, speaking out of ignorance bothers me, especially when you don't want to learn about the group of people you are insulting.
Your comment about anyone who beats jumpers down must be tearing the plane up or doing something stupid
Those are the two nuggets of misinformation I took objection to the most
DavidWhite
Final Approach
Come fly in Alaska. Fly a "visual" approach to "five hundred feet" and "two miles" to a 1300' runway with a 30 knot crosswind. I did it yesterday. Skydive pilots are a bunch of wusses. It does not compare in the least.
U
Unregistered
Guest
Spare me the AK crap, its not that impressive to launch VFR into diminishing conditions. Read up on Era, Haveland, Ravn or whatever they are calling themselves now, they have had more then a few high time Alaska flying gods smear themselves caravans and pax across the snow.
Flying VFR into worsening conditions just proves stupidity, evolution always catches up.
And 105 ops is nothing like 135 ops, very different flight profiles, again you should educate yourself on what you're talking about, as well as some lessons in PDM.
Flying VFR into worsening conditions just proves stupidity, evolution always catches up.
And 105 ops is nothing like 135 ops, very different flight profiles, again you should educate yourself on what you're talking about, as well as some lessons in PDM.
DavidWhite
Final Approach
You're just a ****ing retard. Not worth my time.
ClimbnSink
Ejection Handle Pulled
- Joined
- Oct 11, 2007
- Messages
- 6,997
- Display Name
Display name:
Greg
How many jump pilots end up with certificate action due to stupid jumper tricks? I know I've put many a jump pilot into FAR no no land. Stupid job, glad somebody does it.
vfsit
Pre-Flight
well your average speed down is misleading. Alti2s check every 3K so for your jump 9, 6, 3. since deployed above 3 then just a 9 and 6 hack. your 9 hack wasn't at terminal yet so the average number is low. 6K at 120 is more realistic but also tells me you are on the lighter side or wearing baggy clothes. 3:29 sec from 3900 also tells me you are lightly loaded under canopy since your canopy time is more than average from that altitude.
you are the one that wanted to compare turbine pilots (which had no F*cking bearing in this discussion) to a 182 or 206 descent from jump run. Only a moron would risk shock cooling the engine on a cessna just to beat jumpers to the ground. They are not even going to be on your next load so even IF you are turning loads and hot fueling (oh yeah.. you wouldn't be hot fueling a cessna but there you go trying to bring turbine ops into the discussion again) your clock isn't against the jumpers, on busy days your clock is gate to gate. Standard ops on turbines (and honestly King Airs since they are the quickest to do this) is that you'll beat the last 1/2 the load down but since the 1st half is already under canopy before you even get the last tandem out you won't beat them and the 2nd half is potentially tandems and AFFs.
Jessie is the type jump pilot I would happily jump from or hire as a jump pilot. Hell I'll take his attitude and train him for turbine ops b/c he won't trash a plane that is needed for the next weekend and the next.....
(and no, I don't know Jessie at all)
posting unregistered so you can stir crap is one thing, showing your lack of maturity in either discipline shows us how much you are compensating for something else.
vfsit
Pre-Flight
When I was jumping, a Para-Commander was in vogue and wings were brand new. We would normally open 18-2200 feet AGL. It's been a few years now.
Why so high?
Paul
Salome, AZ
USPA modified the BSRs recently and upped the minimum altitude for C and D license to 2500 after too many low pull malfunctions with either two out scenarios or malfunction recognition and cutaway below 1k' most resulting in impact when the reserve was just getting to line stretch and not inflating.
Most jumpers are pulling between 2800-3500 these days. depending on the load I'm pulling at 3500 generally putting me in the saddle around 2800 or if I'm doing a tandem I'll be pulling by 5K and in the saddle by 4K at the latest (or I'm getting nervous).
Dav8or
Final Approach
Since I kind of started this pizzing contest, I'll add this. I fly out of Byron, CA (C83) and they have a jump operation there that works nearly every weekend. They use a King Air. I went flying today and watched from the air the approach the pilot made with the King Air and I don't know if he is trying to beat jumpers to the ground, or "gate to gate", or what, but I can tell you this, he absolutely needed a parachute to remain legal. Those guys seriously dive for the ground.
They use no piston powered planes there, so I have no idea what flight profile a 182 might take.
They use no piston powered planes there, so I have no idea what flight profile a 182 might take.
In my limited experience, the FAA tries to stay away from jump operations, they probably figure the passengers are as big of retards as the pilots and just don't want that headache.
What he says is not without merit. Know the terrain well if you are going to play the game, it has beaten some of the best there were.
vfsit
Pre-Flight
We already got one ****ing contest going on, can we not start another about retards/meat bombs/etc?
The local FSDO office is actually quite active with us (and not for enforcement actions). The larger operations usually try to maintain a good working relationship since we deal with them for potential demo jumps in their area and other things.