Six seater planes

[German guy]

If you are looking Piper it needs to be earlier then about an 83.

The Saratoga in our former club was build in 1984 and had manual flap. All club's Archers, of which the newest was from 1995, also had manual flaps.

I also prefer manual flaps.

One of them is a piper cherokee six - much older than 83. Also eyeing a Lance

Cherokee Six / Saratogas are indeed nice and very, very versatile aircraft. Just be aware that these are flying trucks - with all the advantages and disadvantages that come with it.

 

[gitmo234]

Thanks. I talked to my CFI for my private who has flown them. He said its the equivalent to flying a cement truck. I bit slower and wider turns.

By the way, in my looking at various aircraft brokers for airplanes I'm pretty sure I saw your 172 listed (as sold). I think i saw the same picture in profile pic. If so, looks really nice!

 

[ahkahn]

The Saratoga in our former club was build in 1984 and had manual flap. All club's Archers, of which the newest was from 1995, also had manual flaps.

I also prefer manual flaps.




Cherokee Six / Saratogas are indeed nice and very, very versatile aircraft. Just be aware that these are flying trucks - with all the advantages and disadvantages that come with it.

You know, I was very skittish on switching from the Cessna electric flaps to the Piper manual flaps. I have to say... I've been very happy with them. Never thought that I would come to like them, but after the first flight, I was sold.

 

[gitmo234]

After using my manual flaps, especially with 40 degree flaps, I have a hard time understanding why they got rid of them (both 40 degree and manual flaps)

 

[Henning]

So the other day my wife said "when we start having kids we need to upgrade from a Cessna to something that can haul a small family like a 6 seater, otherwise the Cessna is a toy and there's no point".

I interpreted that to "you have the green light to start looking at larger airplanes and even though it's early, if you find a steal, consider it"

So I've been looking at larger airplanes and I'm looking at older models that can be had for under $100k.

I've found plenty of Cherokee sixes, a few lances and no 206's in that range. Any other models anyone would suggest I look at?

I'm more or less looking for one with relatively low SMOH, a good GPS and the basic amenities and can realistically haul a small family that can also handle a 3000 foot runway (with trees on both ends) when relatively full. When it is time to pull the trigger I'll be getting rid of a 56 Cessna 172 which pains me to think about

310, Baron, or Aztec. Get some real load performance and second engine/systems pack. Seneca II if you need FIKI.

 

[drotto]

I too am a manual flap fan. I on the other hand have never flown with electric, but the manual is so damn fast. Only issue I have is the first notch down from 40 to 25 seems to miss on occasion.

 

[ktup-flyer]

Put me in the Bo party

 

[JHW]

Thanks. I talked to my CFI for my private who has flown them. He said its the equivalent to flying a cement truck. I bit slower and wider turns.

By the way, in my looking at various aircraft brokers for airplanes I'm pretty sure I saw your 172 listed (as sold). I think i saw the same picture in profile pic. If so, looks really nice!

yes, an A36 handles much, much nicer than a PA32. But once you press the stec button they handle exactly the same. I think handling concerns are overblown for a going-places airplane.

 

[FlyingTiger]

Cessna 210 seems like a great combination or speed and load capacity for the price. The plane can carry a family of 5-6 and cruise at Mooney speeds. Recently placed this at the top of my list since I've got 4 kids.

 

[Fearless Tower]

Cessna 210 seems like a great combination or speed and load capacity for the price. The plane can carry a family of 5-6 and cruise at Mooney speeds. Recently placed this at the top of my list since I've got 4 kids.

I like 210s, but you won't haul 5-6 people AND appreciable luggage in a 210.

For family trips, a 210 is a good 4 person plus bags airplane.

 

[gitmo234]

I'm looking at the PA-32 models, 210, and the 180 series as well as the bonanzas

I would think 4 seats would be fine but my wife keeps saying "we ain't goin anywhere without the pups". We have plenty of time to decide but I'm going to hesitantly list my 172, and if it takes 2 years to sell... Oh well. When it does, I'll upgrade. In he mean time I'll sock away some extra cash.

I found a couple I may test fly with her to get her approval. Her father has stated he may go in for half in return for x number of flights per year to his favorite golf courses for minimal cost.

 

[gitmo234]

And by cost I mean buying lunch can and occasionally splitting gas. Not charging for flights... Before anyone gets wrapped up in it

 

[JHW]

Cessna 210 seems like a great combination or speed and load capacity for the price. The plane can carry a family of 5-6 and cruise at Mooney speeds. Recently placed this at the top of my list since I've got 4 kids.

you'd better stop feeding those kids, you're going to need them to stay small. 2 of them need to be really small. Maybe consider some kind of hormone treatment.

 

[Fearless Tower]

I'm looking at the PA-32 models, 210, and the 180 series as well as the bonanzas

I would think 4 seats would be fine but my wife keeps saying "we ain't goin anywhere without the pups". We have plenty of time to decide but I'm going to hesitantly list my 172, and if it takes 2 years to sell... Oh well. When it does, I'll upgrade. In he mean time I'll sock away some extra cash.

I found a couple I may test fly with her to get her approval. Her father has stated he may go in for half in return for x number of flights per year to his favorite golf courses for minimal cost.

If you want to fill 4 seats and bring a dog or two....I think you are going to want the PA32.

 

[gitmo234]

I told her this is getting out of control. Realistically it will be 70% me flying with one other person or alone for work. 20% if will 3-4 people, 10% fully packed. I fly 2-3 times a week as it is with a passenger, in 6 weeks have turned down 4 proposed trips due to a load of 4 adults and bags

 

[JHW]

I told her this is getting out of control. Realistically it will be 70% me flying with one other person or alone for work. 20% if will 3-4 people, 10% fully packed. I fly 2-3 times a week as it is with a passenger, in 6 weeks have turned down 4 proposed trips due to a load of 4 adults and bags

There are a lot of options to move 4 seats and some bags throuh the air at speeds of ~150kts. Exceed the 4 and/or the 150 and you start onto the exponential part of the cost increase curve.

In the end, I think you'll find what so many other people have found, than a S or V35 bo, a comanche 250, a C-182, one of these mainstream 4-seat models will handle the real-world flights you're going to actually fly, not the ones talked about over dinner in an abstract way. And they'll do so at a cost that is reasonable.

 

[drotto]

Still amazing that nobody after 65 + years of GA has figured out the riddle of giving us a true six seater with reasonable luggage.

As for the endless Bo vs PA32 arguments, it all comes down to the BO is a little faster, somewhat better quality (or viewed as such), and handles better. The PA32 is general a better hauler with usually more useful load, and a bigger cabin.

Specifically the A36 BO with tip tanks, may be the best of both worlds if you leave the tips empty and just take advantage of the useful load. But the cabin is smaller, and leaving again leaving fuel behind.

Really no perfect plane, find what generally fits your needs, then buy what you like.

 

[JHW]

Still amazing that nobody after 65 + years of GA has figured out the riddle of giving us a true six seater with reasonable luggage.

As for the endless Bo vs PA32 arguments, it all comes down to the BO is a little faster, somewhat better quality (or viewed as such), and handles better. The PA32 is general a better hauler with usually more useful load, and a bigger cabin.

Specifically the A36 BO with tip tanks, may be the best of both worlds if you leave the tips empty and just take advantage of the useful load. But the cabin is smaller, and leaving again leaving fuel behind.

Really no perfect plane, find what generally fits your needs, then buy what you like.

minor nit, to get the gross weight increase you don't leave the tips empty, you take fuel that would otherwise be in the wings and move it to the tips.

 

[EvilEagle]

I was all in on the 210 series as well. I actually put an offer in on one, but it fell through for various reasons. What I was really surprised about was the insurance cost of a 210 vs the Bo36 I own now. Not quite double the cost to insure a 210 - DOUBLE. That's a lot of AVGAS. (and I'm a high time retract guy ~ 2500 hrs multi jet).

There's a lot more to owning besides buying! I love the utility of the Bo36. The double doors just can't be beat - all while still going 160KTAS+, >1500lbs useful and burning about 15.5gph ROP. The airplane loves grass as well. I've had three full size men, two hunting dogs, gear for a full weekend (6 guns, ammo, 2 bows, sleeping bags, tents and clothes) and about 75% gas on a 3200' strip with trees and had no problems.


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[gitmo234]

I was all in on the 210 series as well. I actually put an offer in on one, but it fell through for various reasons. What I was really surprised about was the insurance cost of a 210 vs the Bo36 I own now. Not quite double the cost to insure a 210 - DOUBLE. That's a lot of AVGAS. (and I'm a high time retract guy ~ 2500 hrs multi jet).

There's a lot more to owning besides buying! I love the utility of the Bo36. The double doors just can't be beat - all while still going 160KTAS+, >1500lbs useful and burning about 15.5gph ROP. The airplane loves grass as well. I've had three full size men, two hunting dogs, gear for a full weekend (6 guns, ammo, 2 bows, sleeping bags, tents and clothes) and about 75% gas on a 3200' strip with trees and had no problems.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Now THATS a party. Impressive load too

 

[JHW]

Now THATS a party. Impressive load too

yes the A36 is quite a package, especially the early lighter ones. There's a reason they command such a premium to PA32's and C-210's. There aren't any bargains, you pretty much get what you pay for.

 

[Henning]

yes the A36 is quite a package, especially the early lighter ones. There's a reason they command such a premium to PA32's and C-210's. There aren't any bargains, you pretty much get what you pay for.

Good planes aren't cheap, cheap planes are rarely a bargain. The 36s are probably the best package in a 6 seat single, unless maximizing volume is your need, then it's a PA-32, the 210 is a 4 seater with extra space. Lots of good mod packages for the 36 like the TAT TN kit and Osbourne 25gal tip tanks that make it a very capable pilot's traveling machine to really maximize the versatility you can get from it. I'd really like an economical trans-Atlantic machine that gets me a stop in Iceland on the way back and forth. Not having to rig ferry tanks is a nice feature.

 

[ktup-flyer]

At this point, you might as well just get a King Air

 

[Checkout_my_Six]

yes the A36 is quite a package, especially the early lighter ones. There's a reason they command such a premium to PA32's and C-210's. There aren't any bargains, you pretty much get what you pay for.

not a bad 4 seater...but it's no where near the 6 six seater that it's sold as. And....most have "no" baggage space. And the ones with baggage space are CG critical. No heavy stuff goes back there....unlike the PA32 designs, which will comfortably seat 6 and take their bags.

 

[petrolero]

I like 210s, but you won't haul 5-6 people AND appreciable luggage in a 210.

For family trips, a 210 is a good 4 person plus bags airplane.

My 182 is a good 4 people + bags airplane. The 210 is better than that.

 

[Henning]

My 182 is a good 4 people + bags airplane. The 210 is better than that.

Slightly more baggage room and a fair bit of speed, but not 2 more passengers worth really.

 

[Fearless Tower]

My 182 is a good 4 people + bags airplane. The 210 is better than that.

Not much....there is no space man. It isn't a weight thing.

That back bench 'seat' is just a luggage holder to supplement the baggage compartment which is not exactly cavernous with the wheel well taking up space.

I like 210s, but they are not 5-6 person plus bags airplanes.

 

[weilke]

If you want to fill 4 seats and bring a dog or two....I think you are going to want the PA32.

Or an A36, put the middle seats forward and load luggage and dogs in the big cavern you have in the back.

I have seen a T206H set up as 4+dog hauler. Flint tip-tanks, 1450 useful. Not as sleek, not as fast and never met a gas station it didn't like. But if Cherokee Sixes are in the mix, it should probably be mentioned.

 

[weilke]

I found a couple I may test fly with her to get her approval. Her father has stated he may go in for half in return for x number of flights per year to his favorite golf courses for minimal cost.

Get a commercial rating and a second class. As co-owner of the plane, he could even hire you to fly him in 'his' plane.

 

[winrose46]

My S model bonanza had six seats before I took one out last year. I flew my Bonanza with all three kids and wife (plus luggage, food, dive tanks) down to the Bahamas from MD at least 10 times over twenty years. (it does help that the two oldest were light girls and the tanks and duffle bag of food was under their feet in the 2nd set of seats). My son got his PPL two years ago and has 20 hours of actual instrument instruction in the bonanza. As soon as he gets his instrument rating I will permit him to fly it solo.

 

[gitmo234]

Get a commercial rating and a second class. As co-owner of the plane, he could even hire you to fly him in 'his' plane.

He's encouraged me to do that. In the 172 he said he'll just UPS luggage and what not a day or two prior.

 

[weilke]

He's encouraged me to do that. In the 172 he said he'll just UPS luggage and what not a day or two prior.

I dont think the FAA has ever gone after anyone inside of a family for not adhering to the letter of the cost-sharing laws. If your dad owns a part of the plane and you fly him somewhere, nobody is going to check whose credit card was run for the fuel. But strictly speaking, you would need 2nd class and commercial to pay one cent less than your pro-rata share.

 

[gitmo234]

Yeah, I gotcha, I was just avoiding the inevitable jump in by someone saying it couldnt be done and turning the thread into an argument

 

[Comanche flyer]

Comanche 260B is a 6 seater, way cheaper than a Cherokee 6, but the ones around have horrible panels, and probably need lot to bring them back, landing gear rebuild is not cheap in the Comanche, but boy they will make you smile

http://www.global-air.com/global/n9259p.htm

Great example here

 

[petrolero]

Comanche 260B is a 6 seater, way cheaper than a Cherokee 6, but the ones around have horrible panels, and probably need lot to bring them back, landing gear rebuild is not cheap in the Comanche, but boy they will make you smile

Yeah old airframe. IIRC they stopped making these in 1972 but I did consider one when I was plane shopping. There was a nice example of one at KAPA in Denver and I was tempted.

 

[gitmo234]

Comanche 260B is a 6 seater, way cheaper than a Cherokee 6, but the ones around have horrible panels, and probably need lot to bring them back, landing gear rebuild is not cheap in the Comanche, but boy they will make you smile

http://www.global-air.com/global/n9259p.htm

Great example here

Ugly interior but I'm not after beauty. Function over fashion. That model you posted would be high on my list if the engine time was lower

 

[Comanche flyer]

U get overhaul the engine and still under 100k and know what u have under the cowling. + is a great wait to negotiate the price, pretty ,unchanged price the plane with out engine he's asking to much and probably know it and is open to drop another 4/6 g out of that price.

Btw I almost bought a Cherokee 180 from Mark at Indy but dint pass the prebuy boy that was a pretty Cherokee with many surprises

 

[Comanche flyer]

Yeah old airframe. IIRC they stopped making these in 1972 but I did consider one when I was plane shopping. There was a nice example of one at KAPA in Denver and I was tempted.

Old airframe
My Comanche is a 58
Serial n17
Nothing old inside the Indian any more, and the Comanches are zinc chromated from factory so no rust in this old birds

 

[weilke]

He's encouraged me to do that. In the 172 he said he'll just UPS luggage and what not a day or two prior.

Whenever volume or weight of luggage becomes a reason to upgrade planes, UPS ground tends to be the better option.

 

[kgruber]

I have seen a T206H set up as 4+dog hauler. Flint tip-tanks, 1450 useful. Not as sleek, not as fast and never met a gas station it didn't like. But if Cherokee Sixes are in the mix, it should probably be mentioned.

That is FOR SURE. Especially if you are going in the back country on any kind of rough strip. In Alaska, you see Cherokees just bulldozed off the side of the runway after the gear went through the wing.

That is why the Cessna 207s, which get used in AK are so great. Sure, the gear gets loose.....but then they are flown down to Seattle every 1700 hours for an engine, prop, and gear overhaul. Many 207s have 45,000 hour on them.