Should i get My CFI?

[Tom-D]

After I get the F-24 running would it profitable to teach tail wheel in the F-24? It uses about 9 gal per hour in the pattern.

What would folks pay to fly the Fairchild? Big old stick and rudder round engine aircraft.

What's it take to become a CFI? at 65 years old? I have a class 2 med.

good Idea? bad Idea?

Yes I have complex time, No I wouldn't need the multi.

 

[Henning]

After I get the F-24 running would it profitable to teach tail wheel in the F-24? It uses about 9 gal per hour in the pattern.

What would folks pay to fly the Fairchild? Big old stick and rudder round engine aircraft.

What's it take to become a CFI? at 65 years old? I have a class 2 med.

good Idea? bad Idea?

Yes I have complex time, No I wouldn't need the multi.

Would it be worth it....to others yes, to yourself...I doubt it. You used the word "profitable" as well. I doubt that too. The way you could make a profit it hauling rides at airshows, but that's a lot of travelling. If you want to have a fun summer seeing the country, it's one way to go about it. Figure about $60 for a 20 min ride in a vintage aircraft. That'll cover costs for the most part, you might make a couple bucks an hour. If you do really well or set up camp under the wing, maybe even better. As for doing tailwheel training in it, unless you change over to disc brakes, I wouldn't if it was my plane, too touchy.

 

[Tom-D]

, unless you change over to disc brakes, I wouldn't if it was my plane, too touchy.

Change brakes? too touchy? I don't think so. this is a 37 it has shoe brakes. not expander tubes.

 

[Richard]

After I get the F-24 running would it profitable to teach tail wheel in the F-24? It uses about 9 gal per hour in the pattern.

What would folks pay to fly the Fairchild? Big old stick and rudder round engine aircraft.

What's it take to become a CFI? at 65 years old? I have a class 2 med.

good Idea? bad Idea?

Yes I have complex time, No I wouldn't need the multi.

One measure of 'profitable' might be to break even. If, at the end of the day, your net is at least equal to your fixed and operating costs then you have flown for free. At least it would offset your costs. And since it is a commercial venture there may be tax liabilities offset as well.

As for providing an income I think you need to spend some face time with an accountant. Me thinks it'd probably be in the realm of hobby money, fun but no real income. Especally considering the insurance for the operation. Perhaps EAA would have advice here.

I would pay to fly a big 'ol radial. $100/hr would be a good starting point maybe topping out at $150/hr. Dang, I figure most pilots would pay a premium to fly for lunch and arrive in style. It would be a novelty and would generate repeat business on it's own merits.

There certainly are others more knowledgable about the subject but getting your CFI is really not much more than book work and practicing flying and talking at the same time. I'll submit to others to correct me where I'm wrong. But if you are determined and are diligent you can do it. I happen to think the chance to learn to fly the Fairchild rom the CFI/owner would be a wonderful thing.

 

[gismo]

After I get the F-24 running would it profitable to teach tail wheel in the F-24? It uses about 9 gal per hour in the pattern.

What would folks pay to fly the Fairchild? Big old stick and rudder round engine aircraft.

What's it take to become a CFI? at 65 years old? I have a class 2 med.

good Idea? bad Idea?

Yes I have complex time, No I wouldn't need the multi.

I doubt that you'd ever make much if any profit, but if this was something you'd enjoy you should go for it. Probably the biggest isssue for you would be the rather high cost of insurance. Something else that would normally be an issue is the requirement for 100 hr inspections, but you are in a unique situation in regard to that.

You could probably pass the commercial with nothing more than a little maneuver practice and the required dual flights. To get a CFI cert, you basically need to learn how to teach. That includes gaining an understanding of the different ways that people learn and the ability to structure an environment conducive to learning complete with a syllabus for each program and plans for each lesson in the syllabus.

You also must renew a CFI cert periodically. There are various ways to do that but each requires some effort.

BTW, you don't need any medical cert. beyond a class III.

And if you were anywhere near me I'd love to have you teach me to fly the Fairchild.

 

[poadeleted20]

After I get the F-24 running would it profitable to teach tail wheel in the F-24?

Well, there are two issues to consider -- what it will cost to run the operation, and how much revenue you can generate.

The first is easiest, although I suspect the biggest unknown will be insurance cost. You might want to ask your broker for a quote for using that plane as a tailwheel trainer, because I suspect the answer will be eye-watering.

The second is tougher, because there can be a big difference between what folks tell you about how much they'd pay and how likely they would be to take the training, and their actual response to the availability of that training. Market research is, in that sense, never easy. Yes, you may get a bit of an idea here, but you probably need to run this past a much larger audience.

 

[Dave Krall CFII]

If you have your commercial and want to meet me at PAE I'll sign you off for your CFI checkride, which should take you about 3 hours dual. If you need your comm then add another 10 to 15 hours dual.

 

[astanley]

After I get the F-24 running would it profitable to teach tail wheel in the F-24? It uses about 9 gal per hour in the pattern.

What would folks pay to fly the Fairchild? Big old stick and rudder round engine aircraft.

What's it take to become a CFI? at 65 years old? I have a class 2 med.

good Idea? bad Idea?

Yes I have complex time, No I wouldn't need the multi.

I figure I'd value the time at $120 or so an hour. How many times does one get to fly a big radialed airplane AND log the time?

Even if I couldn't log it, I would pay for gas, oil, depreciation, whatever was legal.

Cheers,

-Andrew

 

[jesse]

I'd probably go $150 /hr dual. Maybe.

I'd be hardpressed though to ever fly anything that I could never fly solo.

 

[Henning]

I'd probably go $150 /hr dual. Maybe.

I'd be hardpressed though to ever fly anything that I could never fly solo.

That's exactly the problem, that's why I think hauling rides would be better if one is looking to make money with the plane.

 

[Richard]

I'd probably go $150 /hr dual. Maybe.

I'd be hardpressed though to ever fly anything that I could never fly solo.

Then why even get the tw or seaplane or any other endorsement if you don't have one in the stable?

To be sure there is a utilitarian aspect to flying but just as much is the sense of adventure captured by flying different types. For all practical purposes I'll probably not spend any time above 25,000 but getting the endorsement was a blast. And so it goes.

 

[Tom-D]

Well Boys and girls, I don't see the numbers that would cover expenses in the F-24.

I was thinking around $200-$250 per hour for the F-24.


The warner is a 600 TBO engine, Traffic patterns are pretty hard on this Engine.

 

[Richard]

Well Boys and girls, I don't see the numbers that would cover expenses in the F-24.

I was thinking around $200-$250 per hour for the F-24.


The warner is a 600 TBO engine, Traffic patterns are pretty hard on this Engine.

I have been rethinking how much I'd pay. I was thinking $200 wet. But it seems like you got the wrong engine for instruction. Scenic tours to a champaign landing site would be the ticket.

 

[Henning]

Well Boys and girls, I don't see the numbers that would cover expenses in the F-24.

I was thinking around $200-$250 per hour for the F-24.


The warner is a 600 TBO engine, Traffic patterns are pretty hard on this Engine.

At that price, you'll do about 5 hrs a year. If you go to the right places you can probably do rides for $100/20 min, although it would be easier with an open cockpit plane. Now, if you want to use a 170 or a 140 on wheels or floats and charge $85-$100 hr, you might find enough to keep you busy. Best really though is an old 108 and do a 2-3 week, 40 hr Bush course for $10,000 or more depending on if you package it as a vacation & how intense of training you make it, survival.... Could also do 1 and 2 week courses. If you want to teach, God bless and go get your CFI. People will come to learn if you have a good usable product or service. A tailwheel checkout in a cool old airplane doesn't really crack it, however good bush training does, you just can't afford to do it in the F-24.

 

[Greg Bockelman]

Tom, I go through this every two years when I renew my CFI. I checked on insurance for the 195 for dual only and it was three times what I pay for just me.

Bottom line is to do it in your own airplane is not cost effective. If you do it to check out other people it THEIR airplanes, that can work out. But last I knew, there weren't that many F24s around.

Do it for the fun of it in other people's airplanes. Otherwise it won't be profitable.

 

[spiderweb]

Tom, I go through this every two years when I renew my CFI. I checked on insurance for the 195 for dual only and it was three times what I pay for just me.

Bottom line is to do it in your own airplane is not cost effective. If you do it to check out other people it THEIR airplanes, that can work out. But last I knew, there weren't that many F24s around.

Do it for the fun of it in other people's airplanes. Otherwise it won't be profitable.

If I ever go through with it, it is going to have to be that way--using other people's aircraft. Luckily, at BWI there are a lot of those types--long-time pilots who, for example, don't fly from November-March, and need a CFI/I to knock the rust off for April-October.

 

[Henning]

If I ever go through with it, it is going to have to be that way--using other people's aircraft. Luckily, at BWI there are a lot of those types--long-time pilots who, for example, don't fly from November-March, and need a CFI/I to knock the rust off for April-October.

Probably need to be a II for that market. Most people with over 500 hrs can (and do) shake the rust off and meet legal currency on a 1 hour solo flight. Instrument practice is another story, although I really surprised myself the other day doing some hood work after not flying instruments for years.

 

[Tom-D]

I am quite content doing what I am doing now, moving a few aircraft here and there, flying PMCfs, checking out new owners in thier old aircraft.

Once in a while I get a brain storm and have an idea, bounce it on you kind folks to see if it will work, and in this case the numbers won't crunch.

 

[Henning]

I am quite content doing what I am doing now, moving a few aircraft here and there, flying PMCfs, checking out new owners in thier old aircraft.

Once in a while I get a brain storm and have an idea, bounce it on you kind folks to see if it will work, and in this case the numbers won't crunch.

Mayhaps if you pull the Warner and put it in the garage (or living room) for safe keeping and hang a Continental on it. There's a guy in Oklahoma who has the PMA to build several new parts for them and he has great support as well. Might bring the costs down.

 

[Greg Bockelman]

Mayhaps if you pull the Warner and put it in the garage (or living room) for safe keeping and hang a Continental on it. There's a guy in Oklahoma who has the PMA to build several new parts for them and he has great support as well. Might bring the costs down.

That really isn't the problem. The killer is insurance.

 

[Ed Guthrie]

I am quite content doing what I am doing now ... checking out new owners in thier old aircraft.

Tom, if you had the CFI certificate and could endorse this time as dual received in make/model you would probably do your customers a big favor in terms of their ability to negotiate lower insurance premiums. Many folks don't even ask the broker the proper questions, but the drop in first year premium between 0 hours make/model versu 25 hours dual make/model, or sometimes as little as 10 hours dual make/model can be significant depending on hull value, total experience, etc. Something to consider.

 

[Greg Bockelman]

Tom, if you had the CFI certificate and could endorse this time as dual received in make/model you would probably do your customers a big favor in terms of their ability to negotiate lower insurance premiums. Many folks don't even ask the broker the proper questions, but the drop in first year premium between 0 hours make/model versu 25 hours dual make/model, or sometimes as little as 10 hours dual make/model can be significant depending on hull value, total experience, etc. Something to consider.

I second that motion.

 

[Dave Krall CFII]

BTW:
Yours might be even more valuable now as AvWeb just reported a fire that destroyed a '34 Fairchild, possibly a FA24 ?